Bull Shit

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Jay

OK, I'm all for bashing Bush, and I know how you love to nitpick, but give me a break, already.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Of course it is nit-picking. But when you put all the nits together, you get a picture of an overwhelming lack of intellectual capacity. It is so unclear whether W has any grasp of science and logic, it is frightening.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

"It is so unclear whether W has any grasp of science and logic, it is frightening."

I'm not a huge pro-Bush guy, but are you telling me that you think the President's below average speaking ability is an actual indicator that he doesn't understand the difference between liquid and solid? The guy did graduate high school and college. You may not like his politics or his religious views, but if you listened to all the Bush-haters you'd think he was borderline retarded. Give me a break.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

 The guy did graduate high school and college.

There are quite a few athletes who graduate every year not even being able to read....It doesn't take much to graduate.

The guy graduated from Yale.

I don't think you can bash his intellectual capability coming from one of the finest institutions on the planet.

I won't debate whether he knows the difference between liquid or solid, but the fact is that solid natural gas does exist on the planet.

A quick google search will bring up information regarding this - they exist as hydrates. They occur "naturally" and have been looked at as a way of transporting natural gas.

john

lng terminals were mothballed in the '80s because they were seen as too dangerous. now, with the threat of terrorism around the corner, they're a good idea? and guess where much of the lng is, middle east and russia. it's just a bad idea from all sides.

Since you seem to know about this stuff (and it is interesting, thanks for the info), would you characterize it as "solid"? Everywhere I looked, it had solid natural gas in quotes. I didn't see anything about transporting it in this form, however (which just means I didn't look long enough).

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Not only that, it's also pretty F___ing dangerous to store. Do you know what happens when liquified gases (in those bullet shaped or sperical vessels in refineries) get too hot too quickly? The resulting explosion from the boiling (Called a B.L.E.V.E. in the biz) will obliterate your storage facility and all the structures within a quarter-mile radius...Give or take. And that's just the expansion of the gases; I haven't even taken into account the resultant fires.

I'd rather have a tank fire any day of the week, thank you very much.

"It is so unclear whether W has any grasp of science and logic, it is frightening."

Now that is a real jewel of a sentence! Back to grammar school for you Ken. Does that mean you have an overwhelming lack of intellectual capacity? I guess it does according to your logic. ;)

"There are quite a few athletes who graduate every year not even being able to read....It doesn't take much to graduate"

First off, I don't know that it's such an accurate assumption that a lot of athletes graduate not being abe to read. I'd like to see any numbers you have for that.

Second, the ones that do graduate without being able to read, probably didn't graduate from Phillips Academy Andover, and Yale, and Harvard Business. I'm not saying Pres Bush is a Nobel Laureate or anything, but the guy's not retarded either.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Austherm Pty Ltd Principals have had a long interest in modelling the formation and decomposition of materials of industrial and environmental concern. One class of materials of particular interest are the solid gas hydrates.


Gas hydrates are important in the design and operation of super-critical fluid extraction processes, as a potential source of natural gas, in the processing of conventional natural gas and as a potential method of sequestering green- house gases.

Systems containing both carbon dioxide and water are of interest because of their aqueous phase chemistry as well as their gas-liquid-solid phase equilibria. The prediction of the acidity of co-existing aqueous solutions is of interest in corrosion control, in reactions with natural minerals and in considering the well-being of living organisms. Many solid carbonates and hydrogen carbonates have limited solubility in aqueous solutions so prediction of their possible formation is of importance.

We have compared the molecular and chemical thermodynamic approaches to modelling systems and processes involving gas hydrates. We have used the chemical thermodynamic approach to model the stability of carbon dioxide hydrate using experimental data from the published literature. This approach has been found to indicate a simple linear temperature-dependent stability of hydrates, the two parameters reproducing the expermental data with high precision. The predicted enthalpies of formation of solid hydrates compare well with those in the published literature and may be used to model the thermal changes in processes.

Austherm Pty Ltd has applied the chemical thermodynamic model to hydrate formation during gas processing, during super-critical fluid extraction, and to carbon dioxide hydrate chemical equilibria with sea water. We believe that our methods may be applied to most situations were prediction of gas hydrate formation is of importance. Our particular expertise is our ability to predict the overall chemistry of systems under conditions when hydrates form.

Austherm Pty Ltd uses the Gibbs energy minimisation approach to the calculation of chemical and phase equilibrium. This approach allows similtaneous calculation of aqueous phase chemistry and multi-phase equilibrium, including the use of solid-solution models for hydrate phases containing multiple vapour-phase species in the solid lattice.

Gas Goes Solid

This innovation from Japanese researchers can potentially revolutionize the energy distribution sector. Instead of transporting liquid gas, they changed gas into a solid material which is easier, safer and cheaper to distribute.

Technology Review has the story. Here is the beginning.

Nearly 95 percent of the known gas fields in the world are too small to justify the costs required pipe the gas to a plant, turn it into a liquid, and then transport it on specially equipped tankers.

But a handful of researchers have an idea that could make these fields worth mining: rather than figure out cheaper ways to transport this cleaner-burning energy source from point A to point B as a liquid, why not change natural gas into a solid substance that?s easier and cheaper to transport?

Japanese researchers Hajime Kanda and Yasuhara Nakajima at Mitsui Engineering and Shipbuilding in Tokyo think they?ve found a solution with the aid of hydrates, solid crystals in which natural gas -- composed chiefly of methane -- is caged inside of water molecules.

Rather than extracting methane from hydrates, they want to turn methane into hydrates -- essentially, transforming the colorless and odorless gas into small pellets that can be easily stored, transported, and eventually turned back into natural gas. A few months ago Mitsui, in partnership with Osaka University, opened a demonstration plant near Tokyo to promote the concept and show that it works. If the Mitsui?s process proves feasible and economical, many untapped natural gas deposits could become vital energy sources.

Not only it could increase sources of production, it is cheaper to carry solids than liquids. And it's also cheaper to produce because of reduced cooling costs.

The company?s demonstration plant produces as much as 600 kilograms of hydrates per day, moving the methane through all the necessary phases: hydrate formation, storage, pelletizing, and "controlled dissociation," or separation of the gas and water. Whereas a liquid natural gas facility requires temperatures of -162 ºC, Mitsui?s plant operates at -10 ºC, which means huge savings in cooling costs.

This gas-to-solid process is also safer because of reduced risks of ignition.

While perhaps convoluted, is it incorrect? Always willing to learn.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Sorry Ken, I really don't know much about it. The bit of technical information that I do have simply calls it a solid. It might be refered to as "solid natural gas" because a "gas hydrate is an ice-like crystalline solid formed from a mixture of water and natural gas, usually methane."... from http://woodshole.er.usgs.gov/project-pages/hydrates/ ... so it's more like ice with some gas in it... or something like that.

As for transporting it, from what little I've read it looks like it's something that's being studied or has been studied.... I don't think (or know) if it's actually done.

I yield!

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"Go yell at an M&M"

One more -- in simpler terms.... Gas Goes Solid [/b]
April 2003


Nearly 95 percent of the known gas fields in the world are too small to justify the costs required pipe the gas to a plant, turn it into a liquid, and then transport it on specially equipped tankers.

But a handful of researchers have an idea that could make these fields worth mining: rather than figure out cheaper ways to transport this cleaner-burning energy source from point A to point B as a liquid, why not change natural gas into a solid substance that’s easier and cheaper to transport?

Japanese researchers Hajime Kanda and Yasuhara Nakajima at Mitsui Engineering and Shipbuilding in Tokyo think they’ve found a solution with the aid of hydrates, solid crystals in which natural gas—composed chiefly of methane—is caged inside of water molecules.

For decades, researchers have been looking for ways to gather these crystals from their deep-ocean deposits and reap what they expect could be a natural gas harvest. Kanda and Nakajima are taking an opposite approach. Rather than extracting methane from hydrates, they want to turn methane into hydrates—essentially, transforming the colorless and odorless gas into small pellets that can be easily stored, transported, and eventually turned back into natural gas. A few months ago Mitsui, in partnership with Osaka University, opened a demonstration plant near Tokyo to promote the concept and show that it works. If the Mitsui’s process proves feasible and economical, many untapped natural gas deposits could become vital energy sources.

Changing natural gas into a hydrate form for cheaper transport gained attention in the early 1990s. Norwegian petroleum engineers first proposed the idea after comparing the transport economics of liquid natural gas to natural gas hydrates, knowing that hydrates could store large amounts of natural gas in a small space. “More than 180 standard cubic feet of gas can be stored in one cubic foot of hydrate," says Rudy Rogers, professor of chemical engineering at Mississippi State University, and an authority on industrial use of gas hydrates.

Another major advantage: “transporting natural gas as hydrates can be done at lower temperature and pressure than liquid natural gas, and the risk of ignition in transport is much lower,” explains Hugh Guthrie, who studies natural gas at the U.S. Department of Energy's National Energy Technology Laboratory in Morgantown, WV. Much of the high cost of liquid natural gas comes from temperature and pressure demands on piping, shipping, and storage facilities.