I am for securing our borders. The problem definatly stems from the risk of getting caught illegally immagrating is well worth the risk for those that are seeking a better life here in the US. I am not sure how you go about making the risk of getting caught so great that people will stop trying to get across our borders. Life is apparently so shitty in Mexico and other countries that people will always try to get in.

The manpower that it would take to actually secure the Mexican border would be astrinomical. So I guess the answer lies in how you can manage the illegal immigration because I don't think we will ever be able to completely stop it.

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thousands of these illegal aliens (their correct name) come into our country on a daily basis. these illegal aliens clog our justice system and cost us a fortune in welfare benefits. but most of them come here to work, and work they do. and when those paychecks start coming in, much of the money goes right back to Mexico to take care of the families the illegals left behind. how much $? $15 billion a year, that's how much, and that makes the illegal exportation of Mexican labor one of Mexico's largest industries. this illegal immigration is just that, illegal. it drains the resources and tax dollars as illegals are given driver's licenses, health care and just about everything else that costs U.S. taxpayers $. illegal aliens make a mockery of the laws of the U.S. and are a slap in the face to those who come here legally...



Tri-ing in florida

Colorado and Arizona passed laws this year which basically said we give everyone emergency services but all other state service are for citizens only. Unfortunately I live in New Mexico, they just decided that the as long as you finish one year of high school in the state you can get state lottery scholarship funding. That is a crock of shit.

I've worked with quite a few legal immigrants (mostly russians, but a few from australia and the middle east) and I agree it is a slap in the face for every person who comes here legally and puts forth the time and effort to become either a citizen or a permanent resident alien. But, the money illegal immigrants pay into social security and never draw on is a boon to the system and I can tell you from experience that they work horrible hours in horrible conditions at some jobs (Libertyville, IBP plant where I was a contractor for a short time) .

My take is that illegal means just that - illegal. I am not allowed to profit from my any illegal activities, so why should these people, just because they're poor and from Mexico or any other country. Illegal immigration is a security problem for the U.S. Americans don't want minimum wage jobs because the minimum wage is so low, and minimum wages won't rise because illegal aliens are perfectly willing to work for the current wage. Above all, these people are in my country illegally, and I want them out.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Exactly.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I'm not going to disagree with your sentiment, but what do you propose doing to the companies and individuals that hire the illegal aliens?

It is kind of like trying to enforce prostitution laws. The reason the illegals come over is because there is a long history of them getting work here even though employers know it is illegal. Do you just go after the prostitutes or do you also go after the johns?

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You're not stuck in traffic. You ARE traffic.

what do you propose doing to the companies and individuals that hire the illegal aliens?

Prosecute them. Enforcement isn't as complicated as everyone likes to make it out to be. It isn't as if we don't know of any places where we could literally find hundreds of illegal immigrants, or who's employing them. There just isn't the will on the government's part to do anything about it.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

On one hand, being a second-generation American, much of this debate smacks to me of the anti-immigrant attitude my forebears encountered when they came over from Ireland. OTOH, AFAIK my ancestors did immigrate legally. Also, I probably would not have a new roof on my house (post-Ivan) if it weren't for Mexican workers, legal or no, and I don't really want to start spending $10 for a head of lettuce.

While I empathize with the desire of people to find a better standard of living, I do think we need to hold the line on illegal immigration. What I think we need is sort of along the lines of what President Bush has proposed--a "guest worker" agreement with Mexico. I think the agreement should be that workers could come here and take jobs, on a temporary basis, but not be eligible for certain priveleges or rights. For example, a baby born here to guest workers would not be automatically granted US citizenship. Also, workers would not be eligible for US Social Security, but perhaps a transfer of credits into a Mexican system. Illegals that are already here should not be granted a pass or amnesty, but should have to apply and be accepted for temporary legal status. And, participation in the program should not be taken as an easy way to get permanent legal status. Since much of the money earned flows back into Mexico, Mexico should help enforce the program by screening the people so terrorists are not getting in, issuing driver's licenses that meet US standards, enforcing their own borders, etc.

While I have not reviewed all the details of the Bush proposal, I cannot say whether I fully endorse it or not, but I do believe a paradigm shift is needed, because what we have now clearly isn't working, nor is it practical or affordable to completely seal the borders. Since a guest worker program would benefit both the US and Mexico, I don't see whay we can't work one out. I don't think Vicente Fox is being particularly helpful, either.

The ultimate solution is to raise the standard of living in Mexico--but Mexico needs some serious economic and political reforms before that happens.

I also have to split with Bush on this one.
I'd like to see the borders become a little more "one-way." Anyone can get out whenever they want, getting back in, though.........

"what do you propose doing to the companies and individuals that hire the illegal aliens?"

I'm supposed to feel bad for companies that support illegal behaviour. No, I don't think so. They can pay fines for breaking the law, and if they are still solvent, they can hire Americans.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

For better or for worse, California all but stops functioning without illegal workers. I imagine the other border states are the same. Not saying I like it, but that is reality here.

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What a drag it is getting old. -- Stones

A topical topic today. I saw a protest banner that read "[i]company name[/i] contributest to immigrant labor abuse." In context it was saying that like it was a bad thing.

The trade in question was drywall. Ask a union drywaller what illegal workers have done to them. Oops, there IS no drywallers union anymore (at least in So. Cal. effectively)

I think you are right in saying that alot of the work can be done by Americans. Trouble is that agricultural work in particular depends on illegals. So a complete shut down of the illegals and deporting them would have too disruptive an effect to ever be attempted.

Nuff said about that.

"Trouble is that agricultural work in particular depends on illegals. So a complete shut down of the illegals and deporting them would have too disruptive an effect to ever be attempted."

Yeah, it's really hard to follow the law. I feel really bad for big agricultrual companies who might have to do some more paperwork, or pay workers more money in order to follow the law.

No one's saying these same people couldn't work the farms. However, the farms should send people to Mexico, offer jobs, arrange with Immigration to issue temprorary visas for the workers they hire, pay for these people to come here, live in company housing, feed them, and pay them a wage. When the term of their visa is expired, the farm needs to send them back. Is it harder than allowing undocumented illegal workers to slide into the country unmonitored? Yes, yes it is....I'm still not feeling too bad about that.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

"Yeah, it's really hard to follow the law. I feel really bad for big agricultrual companies who might have to do some more paperwork, or pay workers more money in order to follow the law"


I am not disagreeing with you, I am saying that the problem is so big, there is no political will to confront it head on.

What we are getting and will continue to get is some attempt at a compromise in a range between a guest worker program (maquiladoros) and open borders. (not between literal compliance and open borders.)

I believe some of the illegal immigration is good , as other countries are on an active recruitment of immigrants . The replenishment of our population is low , Not as many dirty white boys have 4- 6 kids .

If we suffer through the first smelly generation , the second is very productive and generally assimilate well into the population. As someone has to pay into our retirements , social security funds.

Everyone loves to slam the gate ,Since we are here and did it the right way, screw everybody else. We would all swim the river if we had the same cards dealt to us. It is a load on social services and it should be limited to some degree.

Let ye without a saltwater wet back in the family cast the first , Green card. We aren't all American Indians or Vikings .