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Do you download music illegally?
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I personally do not but see the Supreme Court is going to take up the matter. Do any of you feel it is OK to partake in the file swap sites like Napster for free?

Supreme Court Weighs in on File-Sharing
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Mar 29, 12:21 PM (ET)

By TED BRIDIS


WASHINGTON (AP) - The Supreme Court expressed concerns Tuesday over allowing entertainment companies to sue makers of software that allows Internet users to illegally download music and movies, questioning whether the threat of such legal action might stifle Web innovation.

During a lively argument, justices wondered aloud whether such lawsuits might have discouraged past inventions like copy machines, videocassette recorders and iPod portable music players - all of which can be used to make illegal duplications of copyrighted documents, movies and songs.

Justice Stephen G. Breyer said the same software that can be used to steal copyrighted materials offered at least conceptually "some really excellent uses" that are legal.

Justice Antonin Scalia maintained that a ruling for entertainment companies could mean that if "I'm a new inventor, I'm going to get sued right away."

While seeming leery of allowing lawsuits, the court also appeared deeply troubled by efforts of the companies that manufacture so-called file-sharing software to encourage Internet piracy and profit from it.

Justice Anthony M. Kennedy pressed a software lawyer on the question of whether profits from trafficking in stolen property can rightfully be used to help finance a young technology business. "That seems wrong to me," he said.

Two lower courts have sided with the software makers, Grokster Inc. and StreamCast Networks. How the justices rule could redefine how consumers can watch television shows and films and listen to songs that increasingly are delivered in digital formats.

Supporters of file-sharing technology say a ruling against the software companies could effectively give the entertainment industry a legal veto over up-and-coming gadgets; they fear the threat of expensive lawsuits could hamper development of new devices.

The case has star power on both sides.

Don Henley, Sheryl Crow, the Dixie Chicks and other musicians are backing the major recording labels, saying their livelihoods are threatened if millions of people can obtain their songs for nothing.

About 20 independent recording artists, including musician and producer Brian Eno, rockers Heart and rapper-activist Chuck D, support the file-sharing technology. They say it allows greater distribution of their music and limits the power of huge record companies.

Regardless of the outcome, it still won't be legal to download copyrighted materials over the Internet without permission, though tens of millions of computer users do so each day. And any ruling won't affect thousands of copyright lawsuits filed individually against Internet users caught sharing music and movies online.

But a victory for the entertainment companies would allow lawsuits that could drive companies that make file-sharing software out of business. It also would effectively overturn rules that have governed technology companies for more than two decades: Manufacturers can't be sued for copyright violations committed by customers using their products illegally.

Dan Glickman, head of the Motion Picture Association of America, said the film industry will keep trying to get consumers to buy legal digital movies. "Consumers want a legal, hassle-free, reasonable-cost way to get their products online," he said in an interview Monday with editors from The Associated Press.

Mitch Bainwol, chief executive of the Recording Industry Association of America, told the AP editors: "We are doing all the things we should be doing to move into this digital age. That is true no matter what the outcome" of the case.

Still, the entertainment companies face an uphill battle with the high court.

The trial judge and a U.S. appeals court quoted the Supreme Court in ruling the same file-sharing software millions of people use to steal music and movies also can be used for "substantial" legal purposes, such as giving away free songs, free software or government documents. They reasoned that gave the software's manufacturers protection from copyright lawsuits based on acts by their customers.

The trial court in Los Angeles and San Francisco-based U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit based their decisions on the 1984 Supreme Court "Betamax" case. The justices ruled Sony Corp. (SNE) couldn't be sued for copyright infringement if some customers used their VCRs to make illegal copies of movies.

Entertainment companies argue the file-sharing companies should not have blanket protection from copyright lawsuits, especially when they know about and profit from wide-scale piracy. Court documents said some file-sharing software companies earned millions of dollars annually from advertisements built into their software, and ad revenues climb as more people use the software.

The case is Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios v. Grokster, 04-480.
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Re: Do you download music illegally? [armytriguy] [ In reply to ]
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No. I don't even download music legally, actually. The sound quality isn't good enough. I just rip CDs. And only ones that I own.


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What a drag it is getting old. -- Stones
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Re: Do you download music illegally? [direwolf] [ In reply to ]
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Thats what I do too.
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Re: Do you download music illegally? [direwolf] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
No. I don't even download music legally, actually. The sound quality isn't good enough. I just rip CDs. And only ones that I own.


What is the legality of even that? I've heard a number of arguments that you're not even allowed to make copies for your own use. Any thoughts?

Also, that was one of the things the Supreme Court was talking about. If the record companies get their way, then the software maker that allowed you to rip your CD would be sued regardless of how you use the software.

Interesting dilemma.

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You're not stuck in traffic. You ARE traffic.
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Re: Do you download music illegally? [Fatmouse] [ In reply to ]
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You're right but I think if you copy something you paid for and then only use it for yourself you would have a pretty sound argument. Now if I copy a CD I bought then give it to you that would be a different story.
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Re: Do you download music illegally? [armytriguy] [ In reply to ]
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I have downloaded music illegally ... but not often. Most of my buddies and I do a "CD swap". I buy a CD and copy it for them, they return the favor.

I rip all my CD's and put them on PC so that I can make my own "training CD's" with whatever flavor of music I am into that week.

I don't think it is right to download music for free without the musicians getting a p[iece. I also do not think it is right for the consumer to spend $15 on a CD that has 9 songs on it, of which 1 or 2 are worth listening to more than once. IMO, that's how many folks jutify their illegal downloading. The merit of that argument is in the eye of the beholder.

Incidently, from what I hear/read, it's the major bands (Metallica for example) that are throwing the biggest poop fit. The bands that charge $50 for a concert ticket and go platinum with every album. The smaller bands (from what I have seen) like it that people are downloading their music, and getting attention, which allows to more people showing up to their gigs (where they actually make some cash).

Seems like the biggest losers in the bunch are the producers and marketing companies that have been making a lot of $$$ of other people's talents.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --
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Re: Do you download music illegally? [TripleThreat] [ In reply to ]
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The entertainment industry is really missing the boat. Instead of berating these software companies, the industry should be embracing it. The amount of songs which have been sold on Napster/Itunes/WalMart has been increasing 250% / year. People want to buy it legally, however, the entertainment industry doesn't want them to. And if they do, they make it very difficult to do so. They should try the other side of the coin and instead of going after these companies, hire the companies to develop a kick ass software set that will allow us to do what we want with the music we buy.
What will they do next? Go after the radio stations for playing thgose songs and allowing people to record them? Go after the cd and mp3 industry for allowing mp3 compatible players? Money hungry scum is all they are. At least in my opinion.
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Re: Do you download music illegally? [TnT] [ In reply to ]
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Where was all the fuss when my buddies and I were making copies of Judas Priest, RATT, and Master of Puppets on our stereos that conveniently came with a "high-speed dubbing" feature? Gee, wonder what that feature was intended for?

Here's what I think music companies are going to most pissed at. It won't be long when technology is such that bands can record their own, high-quality sounding music [Heck mu buddy's little brother was recording his guitar playing directly into his PC, and then editing in drums, and bass, etc ... 15 years ago). They'll be able to put it on their own website (or a host website) for people to download (for free or for cost ... the bands' decision) ... and that's how people will get their music. Since MP3 players are likely pushing CD players out like CDs did cassette tapes.

Where does that leave major music companies? Exactly. The bands are not the ones that'll be "out of business", depsite what the Dixie chicks say. The bands may likely make a great overall profit of their own hard work. Dammit.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --
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Re: Do you download music illegally? [TnT] [ In reply to ]
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I think it was George Will who wrote a similar article. He mentioned that sales of music in traditional outlets peaked at exactly the same time as Napster was peaking. When they shut down Napster sales of music plummeted almost immediately.

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You're not stuck in traffic. You ARE traffic.
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Re: Do you download music illegally? [Fatmouse] [ In reply to ]
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Actually, if you bought the CD or DVD or music download, you probably have the right to "format-shift" from CD to MP3, or DVD to VHS. There are numerous cases permitting such action. Where you run afould of the law is when you format-shift your music to your hard drive and then burn it back to a new CD for your friend. That's a no-no.


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Steve Perkins
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Re: Do you download music illegally? [steveperx] [ In reply to ]
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also a problem if you rip the CD and then sell it to a used CD store. technically, you should erase it off your hard drive when you get rid of the disc.


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What a drag it is getting old. -- Stones
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Re: Do you download music illegally? [steveperx] [ In reply to ]
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You're allowed to make the copy in a lossy format for your personal use only, this is analogous to making a software back-up. It's called "fair use".

The issue is that MP3s, while lossy, sound good enough for most folks that they are more than happy to not buy but d/l from friends or sites.

Personally, I like to d/l back catalog music, stuff that the record labels have already made (or lost) money on. I can see buying new release CDs... if you want to support an artist or IF THE CONTENT WAS WORTH IT!

Give me a CD with 12 solid tracks and I will buy it no problem. Example: Any Tragically Hip CD. Nelly Furtado's Folklore.

Give me a CD with 1 good track and the rest is crap, I feel as if I have been ripped off. Example: Gwen Stefani's Love Angel Music Baby.

$25 spent, one is worth it, the other is worth flinging on to the freeway. Keep releasing the crap, and I'll keep downloading the music I want and ignoring the rest.
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Re: Do you download music illegally? [AndyPants] [ In reply to ]
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You're allowed to make the copy in a lossy format for your personal use only, this is analogous to making a software back-up. It's called "fair use".

Well... actually, it doesn't have to be in a lossy format... and direwolf is correct. If you then sell the CD to someone else, technically you should get rid of your backup copy, too. Will they catch you if you don't? Probably not, but it's still illegal.

The issue is that MP3s, while lossy, sound good enough for most folks that they are more than happy to not buy but d/l from friends or sites.

True... But you can download legally from places like iTunes, Walmart.com and the new Napster site. Ripping the CD from your friend into MP3 is still illegal, even if the format is lossy.


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Steve Perkins
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Re: Do you download music illegally? [AndyPants] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Give me a CD with 12 solid tracks and I will buy it no problem. Example: Any Tragically Hip CD. Nelly Furtado's Folklore.
You forgot about Phantom Power. 1 good song, the rest sucks.


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What a drag it is getting old. -- Stones
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Re: Do you download music illegally? [direwolf] [ In reply to ]
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LOL... True some of their discs are much better than others. How do you like the new one (In Between Evolution)? It's growing on me, but I still like Music @Work ("Tiger the Lion")... ;-)
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Re: Do you download music illegally? [AndyPants] [ In reply to ]
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haven't heard it. I haven't lived near the Canadian border in 9 years, so I don't really get to hear the Hip on the radio anymore. I stopped buying their albums after Phantom Power. Didn't love Henhouse that much either. I still listen to Up to Here, Fully Completely and Day for Night all the time, though.


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What a drag it is getting old. -- Stones
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Re: Do you download music illegally? [armytriguy] [ In reply to ]
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www.tvtrecords.com
Downloads section.
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Re: Do you download music illegally? [direwolf] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah day for night kicks ass. I wondered if that's where you got yer moniker ;-)
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Re: Do you download music illegally? [armytriguy] [ In reply to ]
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This is actually a huge argument right now in other media besides music. What are your rights when you "buy" something. Some times when you "buy" an item you don't really own it. You only own the right to use it. This is getting murky because what about a book? Do I have the right to loan you a book? How about loan you a DVD? Some software will not allow you to loan it to anyone, it belongs to the maker and is leased for use on a single computer.

There are disucussions, although hypothetical, about having to transfer licenses when you sell a car because of the software used to program your car:) It can get silly.
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