I find it hard to believe that a loving parent would take his child out of school, take him to a protest site, allow him to be put in a place where he would be handcuffed adnd taken away, and while that was happening, spend his time talking to a reporter about Terri Schiavo, instead of making sure he was right next to his son the whole way.

I have no problem with parents who teach their kids the benefits of civil disobedience, or even those who bring them to political events. However, a parent who is willing to stand by and watch as the police take away their child is practicing a different type of "parenting" than I would ever be able to accept.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

2. So your parents never let you miss a day of school for any reason? You've never let your own kids miss school for any reason? The new horror- truancy! Give me a break.

4. What's the harm?

5. What should he have done instead?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I'm with you slowguy, if it is that important stand next to your kid and get arrested.

"2. So your parents never let you miss a day of school for any reason? You've never let your own kids miss school for any reason? The new horror- truancy! Give me a break. "

To attened a protest, no. To go to Chuck E Cheese, no. If they are ill, yes. Lucky for me my daughter cries when she stays home because she loves school.

"4. What's the harm?"

What is the harm of your going to jail? Nothing now that point it out. Jail time will do him some good. Jesus H CHrist what was I thinking?



"5. What should he have done instead?"

Had the kid in school. Had the kid not try to get in a position where he would be arrested. Right when his son was in cuffs finding out where he was being taken and driving there to meet him and pay bail. All kinds of shit, Vitus.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

To attened a protest, no. To go to Chuck E Cheese, no. If they are ill, yes.

Never for a football game? Or a family trip? Or to visit grandparents? Or not for any of a hundred other reasons? Only if their ill, huh? No exceptions, because it's absolutely vital that kids never miss a day of class for any reason other than illness. You're right, I hope someone calls the truancy officer right away, and I hope the dad serves hard time for undermining his kids education.

What is the harm of your going to jail? Nothing now that point it out. Jail time will do him some good. Jesus H CHrist what was I thinking?

You're apparently thinking the kid has been sentenced to rot at Sing-Sing, and that his parents are going to leave him there because they don't love him. How's the poor lad holding up in the general population, amidst the murderers and rapists, do ya think?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

So you have no problem with your son getting arrested? Have you ever been arrested? I have. I have been in a general population holding cell and saw some get the living shit beat out of them. So it's ok to put your son in that situation?

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

So you have no problem with your son getting arrested?

In certain situations I wouldn't have any problem with it at all.

Have you ever been arrested? Nope.

I have been in a general population holding cell and saw some get the living shit beat out of them.

I've worked at a jail, and can't say my experience leads me to believe your experience is typical.

So it's ok to put your son in that situation?

Like I said, how do you think the poor lad is holding up, abandoned as he is to the murderers and rapists?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Wow I over estimated you as a person.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

It would be different if the father had the nutsack to stand beside his son, getting arrested too, going to jail with him, and making sure he was with him while he was arrested. Instead, he was standing in comfort by the side of the street talking to a reporter while his young son was led away in handcuffs laregly because of what his father taught him. I wouldn't agree with it if they got arrested together, but at least I'd say the father was at least remotely as concerned about his son as he was about himself.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Wow, SG ... everything I've read of you today ... I have agreed with.

This thread smells of "argument for argument sake". I'm having a hard time believing anyone could defend the father. I'm not going to go to the other extreme and say he is a child abuser ... but he definately seems to be using his kid for his own personal acclaim. He's not the only parent to do that, but frequency wasn't the question debated in this thread.

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Truancy is actually quite a large problem (seriously, much larger than I, as a teacher, ever suspected). Really. State funding depends, in part, on school attendance. I'm not saying that kids should never miss, because there are worthwhile things to do outside of the classroom ... but most of them can also be done on non-school days (even protests).

I would be more impressed if the kid skipped school on his own, got to the hospital by himself, and tried to give her some water. Got arrested, and then the father commented on how proud he was of his 12-yo son trying to make a difference. The way it went down, the son comes across as a kid that was planted by the father.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

This thread smells of "argument for argument sake". Which makes it different from any other thread in here how, exactly? ;)

I'm having a hard time believing anyone could defend the father.

I'm having a hard time believing the father needs defending. I guarantee you, if his kid had been arrested at a sit-in protesting a KKK march, nobody would have a problem with it. Except maybe to say that the cops, in such a case, would be jackbooted thugs.

Truancy is actually quite a large problem Get a grip, TT.

but most of them can also be done on non-school days (even protests). Well, I imagine in this case the protesters feel it's somewhat dicey to schedule their protests for next weekend.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

"I guarantee you, if his kid had been arrested at a sit-in protesting a KKK march, nobody would have a problem with it. Except maybe to say that the cops, in such a case, would be jackbooted thugs."

That's lame Vitus. No one is criticizing the father's politics. We are criticizing his parenting skills, and his priorities. If he had sent jis son to an anti-KKK rally by himself, allowed his son to be hauled off in handcuffs, while he expressed talked to reporters about the cause, I'd have the same problems with his conduct. His job as a parent is, first and foremost, to safeguard his son's health and safety. It's not to grab his 5 minutes of fame while his son is being handcuffed and taken to jail. Even if you somehow think jail is not a dangerous place for a child, which boggles the mind by the way, the trauma of being led away in handcuffs while your dad pays no attention is harmful. Most kids get frightened if they lose track of their parents at the grocery store. And most parents get concerned as well.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

His job as a parent is, first and foremost, to safeguard his son's health and safety.

So, let's revisit the Little Rock Nine. Where was their parents' concern for their children's health and safety? Which do you think was the more traumatic experience- having to be escorted to school through a mob by the 101st Airborne, or being handcuffed and brought to the county jail for a few hours?

Even if you somehow think jail is not a dangerous place for a child, which boggles the mind by the way

Yes, I'm quite concerned for the poor lad's safety while he's in the terrible clutches of the FL penal system. Do you think he's been traded for cigarettes yet, or do you think he's instead managed to protect himself by joining a White Power prison gang?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Yes, lets' revisit Littl eRock. In 1957, the Little Rock school board desegregated schools. The Gov deployed the National Guard to prevent the students from entering in order to prevent vioolent protests, but the courts issued injunction calling for them to stand down, which they did. On Mon Sep 23, the 9 black students were escorted quietly to school, in accordance with the law by the police. When the mob found they were in the school, they got more violent, and the students were escorted back out to safety by police before lunchtime. By the 25th, the National Guard had been nationalized, and they escorted the children back into the school safely, where they were legally supposed to be.

Those high school aged children were aided by the police and 101st Airborne in doing what the law said they should do, and none of their parents was grandstanding by the side of the road with a reporter. This 6th grade boy was sent to do something illegal, by his father, who then stood by while his child was arrested, so that he could get a minute or two of air-time.

"Yes, I'm quite concerned for the poor lad's safety while he's in the terrible clutches of the FL penal system. Do you think he's been traded for cigarettes yet, or do you think he's instead managed to protect himself by joining a White Power prison gang?"

Your sarcasm doesn't help your very poor argument. Bad things happen in jails, bad things happen in fervent protests (witness the guy who had to be tasered), and children that young don't deserve to be put in dangerous positions by their parents who's primary job is keeping their children safe.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

It'd be funny if the kid can't get into college because of his arrest record.

He'll kick his dad's ass.

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

Those high school aged children were aided by the police and 101st Airborne in doing what the law said they should do

But wait, I thought your only concern was the actual safety of the kids, and not political concerns. Now you're saying that it's OK to put a child in risk's way if the law is on your side, but not in a situation of civil disobedience.

Make no mistake, the Little Rock Nine were at much greater risk of harm than this kid in Florida ever was. There was never, at any time, any appreciable danger to this kid, either at the protest itself, or while in the custody of law enforcement.

Your sarcasm doesn't help your very poor argument.

My sarcasm is meant to try to bring a little perspective to people who seem to be having a near hysterical reaction to a fairly benign situation. I think perhaps people have watched "The Shawshank Redemption" one too many times. Peaceful protesters of any age, let alone children of 12 years, are not thrown into a pit with society's worst and left to fend for themselves when they get arrested. At worst, this kid probably spent a couple of hours in a holding cell with other protesters, and then released back to the custody of his parents. He was in no danger of harm.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

"But wait, I thought your only concern was the actual safety of the kids, and not political concerns. Now you're saying that it's OK to put a child in risk's way if the law is on your side, but not in a situation of civil disobedience."

No vitus, you aren't listening. I never said the sole concern is safety, just a major concern. Also, the parent's didn't place their kids in harm's way in Little Rock. the kids decided to go to school, like they were supposed to, and the cops and Army escorted them to keep them safe. If you don't see the difference between police escort, and police arresting you, you aren't trying very hard.

"t worst, this kid probably spent a couple of hours in a holding cell with other protesters, and then released back to the custody of his parents."

The point is that this kid shouldn't be asked to spend any hours in a holding cell, and if he is, it should be side by side with his dad, instead of sitting their with stangers while his dad is grandstanding with a reporter. I don't think anyone is reacting hysterically. I, and most other people have simply said this father made a very poor parenting decision. He ignored his primary responsibility in order to make a political support, and get 5 mins in front of the camera. If you think that was a sound parenting decision, then I feel sorry for your kids.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Also, the parent's didn't place their kids in harm's way in Little Rock. <>If you don't see the difference between police escort, and police arresting you, you aren't trying very hard.

If you think the kids at Little Rock weren't at risk because they had an armed escort through the mob, and that some 12 year old kid participating in a peaceful protest is at risk, you must be back on those pain pills.

The point is that this kid shouldn't be asked to spend any hours in a holding cell, and if he is, it should be side by side with his dad, instead of sitting their with stangers while his dad is grandstanding with a reporter.

Does anyone know that the dad wasn't subsequently arrested? Does this kid have a mom? Was she arrested? Or did she follow the kid down to the station? Or did the dad- after the miserable eternity of minutes- follow the kid down to the station?

He ignored his primary responsibility in order to make a political support, and get 5 mins in front of the camera.

There is absolutely no cause to assert that he ignored his primary responsibility, because there was no reason for him to think that the cops were going to do something bad to his kid in the few minutes in took to conduct the interview. The whole point of civil disobedience is to make a statement, and statements don't count for much if nobody gets the message. The worst thing this father can be accused of is clumsy PR- he tried to draw attention to his son's political statement, and in a PR sense, it didn't turn out so hot, apparently. There is nothing- nothing- that justifies you or anyone else of accusing him of endangering the kid.

I don't think anyone is reacting hysterically.

I just hope the poor kid has learned his lesson, and never skips school again. And I'll pass your pity on to my kids.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."