I wonder if the industry is financially capable of shouldering the cost...

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I think the solution is to try to stop the attack before they can carry it out. Easily said I know, but the missle defense would be super expensive. The article I read stated 2.2 annually just to admin the program and they currently only spend $4 billion on all transportation safety so it is a big increase. These questions of how to defend and get the most out of the effort are tough. I think the $4 billion may be better spent on port and border security to prevent the import of the weapons and the people.

Ha Ha ha.

I just find it funny that you call yourself rocketboy.

He he, what a hoot.

no pun intended?

Anti missile technology in commercial airliners - by Rocketboy

Kind of catchy isn't it.

Put that money into intelligence and policing. That way you'll more likely stop an attack, not only on airplances but everything. Besides countermeasures don't work against RPGs and other low tech weapons.

It's funny we have so much security in the airport. But if I were a terrorist, I would put a fake bomb inside the airport to get it evacuated. Then blow up all the people standing outside where there is no security and people are all bunched up. Unless you stop the terrorist before they do something, there is no way you can protect everything, everywhere.

There is no truly effective countermeasure. El Al aircraft has some aircraft equipped with these systems already, primarily chaff and flare dispensers.

MANPADS AA systems such as Stinger are harder to use and less effective than you may imagine. That said, they pack a wallop and could make thinks sketchy for an airliner at low altitude.

Additional countermeasures (passive) may be a method of lowering IR signature since most of these weapons rely on a high IR signature.

Another substantial threat are the "anti-material" rifles available at any good gun retailer such as the Barrett light .50. This rifle can penetrate 10mm of armor and easily pierce an aircraft fuselage or engine at extended (1000+) range. The weapon is semi-automatic and can place several large, high velocity, armor piercing rounds in close proximity in under 15 seconds. Additionally, there is no smoke trail to reveal the shooter's position. With a Stinger or other AA missle system, you have to shoot and scoot. Once you touch the missle off you are advertising to the world that you just launched a missle.

Sooner or later the tangos will bag an airliner. It is an absolute, irrefutable guarantee. Not a matter of it, but when.

We're talking about the fangs of the snake here. We need to cut off the head.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Oh, I should have added, newer version of man-portable AA missle systems are "all-aspect" meaning they can engage a target from all angles, including head-on.

If you can get a tone, you can launch. And you can get a tone from head on with a large, hot aircraft- even larger helicopters.

I wager that the type of evasive manuevers necessary to evade a low altitude attack would take place in the portion of the airliner's performance envelope when he is low and slow. Not good. In that corner of the envelope the evasive manuevers are deadlier than the missle.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

This is a pretty common tactic. Touch off a reasonable size IED, attract aid workers and first respoonders and security, then touch off a much larger device to maximize effect and demoralization.

These people are not nice.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

I agree, cut off the head of the snake, only we have a snake with many heads. However, I'd rather see the additional funds go to security. Regular sweeps of airport perimeter areas, better border and shipping terminal security, etc.

RB

Heres what I know, the security at EL AL is the best, i used to fly charters for them and I had to go through 3 levels of security just to get to my airplane, and once there, the local police had the aircraft surrounded and we had armed guards and flight attendants on board, plus the fact that everyone in israel spends 2 years in the military didnt hurt either, we also had a police escort all the way to the runway, amazing security.

As for countermeasures being installed on commercial aircraft, I dont think it will ever happen untill one is shot down, unfortunately in this world it takes someone to get killed before funds are allocated, thats just the way it is, the airlines cant pay for it and the govenrment wont either.

Currently we do have MANPAD procedures and for security reasons I wont divulge what they are, but they are paltry at best, its the best that we can come up with at this point.

I did fly commercial aircraft in a war environment and what I learned is this, one can evade a MANPAD or whatever is shot at them, half of it is luck the other half is skill. We were constantly being shot at by stingers and RPG's and even the ones that did hit an engine didnt take down the aircraft, actually a buddie of mine had a hit and didnt even know it, all he knew was that an engine failed but once he got on the ground we saw the missle sticking out of the engine, what a sight that was. The secret to our survival was to fly unpredictable departures and arrivals all the time, come in from different directions. when landing we would spiral down over the city, pretty harrowing if your a passenger and on departure it would be a series of s-turns. The russians would fire chaff on departure and that seemed to work but it was the low flying c-130's that would always get shot down, they couldnt get out of the stinger range. Its my opinion that it is much harder to shoot at an aircraft that is arriving or departing especially when that aircraft is making a series of turns and banks while flying. We never lost an aircraft this way, although they did try to shoot at us, but it always was the aircraft that were flying a level altitude that were shot down. Sometimes they would get a lucky shot with an RPG but it was pure luck if they got us that way.

Hopefully the terrorists dont have the top of the line missles out there, the US keeps a close tab on whats out there and whats unaccounted for, I think that if they do have some, which are easy to get, then they have third and fourth generation equipment which is unreliable and error prone. As for the heat seeking stuff I hope that hasnt made it into the hands of the devils.

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I have horrible back problems but I have zero problems staying in an aero position for 180k. Why? Because I ride steep and because I train regularly in that position. Simple as that.....Gerard

There is no truly effective countermeasure

Agreed - 60 minutes (or was it 60 minutes II) a few weeks ago hinted around at a possible threat to airliners - (won't go into details), but the El Al countermeasures wouldn't work.

Related but different - the US really needs to work on runway placement - Note to architects - don't put freakin' stadiums directly under or near the takeoff and landing of an airport...