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Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor
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Background: students were protesting (apparently both Israel’s treatment of Gaza as well as the construction of a police training center near Atlanta). Some of the protesters were getting arrested when the professor showed up and inquires what goes on. Looks like she touches a cop on the back which leads to another her cop to come in, grab her, and take her to the ground. Another cop comes over to help pin her down and cuff her.

All caught on video which will probably lead to some paid leave for the cops to think about what they and for the tax payers to foot the bill on a lawsuit. Sigh.

https://twitter.com/...eetUser=RobertMackey

Matt
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [Chemist] [ In reply to ]
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Chemist wrote:
Background: students were protesting (apparently both Israel’s treatment of Gaza as well as the construction of a police training center near Atlanta). Some of the protesters were getting arrested when the professor showed up and inquires what goes on. Looks like she touches a cop on the back which leads to another her cop to come in, grab her, and take her to the ground. Another cop comes over to help pin her down and cuff her.

All caught on video which will probably lead to some paid leave for the cops to think about what they and for the tax payers to foot the bill on a lawsuit. Sigh.

https://twitter.com/...eetUser=RobertMackey

You left out an important bit: she used harsh language.

I think she's been charged with assault of a police officer, or something similar.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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Link doesn't work for me but this sounds like one of those "charges dropped" situations, maybe an apologie, and then a lawsuit.
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [Chemist] [ In reply to ]
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It appears your link does not work. This one might. Seems a bit aggressive.
Robert Mackey on X: "It is worth watching this CNN video from the moment Emory Econ Professor @CarolineFohlin came across the violent arrest of a protester on campus and asked the police, with shock, "What are you doing?" That's all that prompted an officer to hurl her to the ground and handcuff her. https://t.co/uYpXwKuc8D" / X (twitter.com)

In related news Texas also had an aggressive response against some peaceful protestors. State troopers in riot gear came in and arrested 57 of them to much media coverage.

Charges against all 57 of them have been dropped.
Charges dropped against all 57 people arrested in UT protest (statesman.com)
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [Chemist] [ In reply to ]
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Probably not a good idea to insert yourself into a chaotic melee and come up from behind and put your hand on an officer trying to subdue and handcuff someone. Professor of Econ is not a professor of common sense.
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [NormM] [ In reply to ]
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NormM wrote:
Probably not a good idea to insert yourself into a chaotic melee and come up from behind and put your hand on an officer trying to subdue and handcuff someone. Professor of Econ is not a professor of common sense.


No, that's not a good idea. But it also seems like it might be an excessive response. The video doesn't work for me, but the description sounds like it might be short of what can be demonstrated as assault in a courtroom. If that were the charge. Possibly some sort of "interfering with a public officer" type of charge....
Last edited by: trail: Apr 27, 24 6:53
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
NormM wrote:
Probably not a good idea to insert yourself into a chaotic melee and come up from behind and put your hand on an officer trying to subdue and handcuff someone. Professor of Econ is not a professor of common sense.

No, that's not a good idea. But it also seems like it might be an excessive response. The video doesn't work for me, but the description sounds like it might be short of what can be demonstrated as assault in a courtroom.

I watched the video and thought the Econ professor’s physical demeanor was pretty good and appropriate. She looked normal and was not moving quickly and did not appear like any kind of a threat. But I think I heard her say “what are you doing?” repeatedly and she was insistent about inserting herself into an arrest and she touched the arresting police officer.

As a person who has gone to quite a few protests and have been fearful of police as well as appreciative of the protection offered by police at protests, I think she screwed up. Body language, sound, and whether you contribute to chaos make a difference, and I have fairly strict ideas about how I behave. To be helpful to a cause is the point, and her value as an observer/witness, supporter of free speech, supporter of a political viewpoint, and upstanding member of the community is compromised when she increases chaos.

That said, arresting her while she’s face-down on the ground seems a bit excessive.

The history of protest and effective ways to protest should be offered by high schools. I think it would be good for everyone, including Jan 6 wanna-be’s and normal people of all political persuasions.
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
NormM wrote:
Probably not a good idea to insert yourself into a chaotic melee and come up from behind and put your hand on an officer trying to subdue and handcuff someone. Professor of Econ is not a professor of common sense.


No, that's not a good idea. But it also seems like it might be an excessive response. The video doesn't work for me, but the description sounds like it might be short of what can be demonstrated as assault in a courtroom. If that were the charge. Possibly some sort of "interfering with a public officer" type of charge....


I agree with you. There will be a minor charge or no charge but during the chaos it's not surprising that they brought her down and handcuffed her. See if this works for you.


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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [Barks&Purrs] [ In reply to ]
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Poor judgment by her, but not a crime. Tapping a cop on the back or shoulder is not hindering. The cop didn’t stop in his efforts to arrest the person on the ground; indeed it seems he barely noticed her. Insisting that you’re an economics professor is annoying, but not a crime.

https://law.justia.com/...-2/section-16-10-24/
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [ike] [ In reply to ]
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ike wrote:
Poor judgment by her, but not a crime. Tapping a cop on the back or shoulder is not hindering. The cop didn’t stop in his efforts to arrest the person on the ground; indeed it seems he barely noticed her. Insisting that you’re an economics professor is annoying, but not a crime.

https://law.justia.com/...-2/section-16-10-24/

I can’t argue with what you say. She showed poor judgement; her arresting officer showed poor judgment.

So long as her arrest didn’t cause her any harm, I think this is not a terribly big deal. I hope she modifies her behavior just a little bit at future protests/ arrests and wears this arrest like a badge of honor.

You know I was arrested at a protest once? Mine was a very cordial one by a nice woman officer, thankfully. I did not suffer the indignity of being put on the ground, but my arrest was not in a chaotic, loud scene. I took my time trespassing and the officer took her time warning and arresting me.

One thing I noted about the short video clip of the Econ professor was that she did not seem rushed. Her movements, including when she reached out and touched the offer who was arresting someone else, looked like a woman walking through a farmer’s market. Her voice was annoying and her speech was irritating. I’d give her a B. If she had resisted touching the officer and had used a lower pitch, she’s get an A.

The officer who arrested her gets a C- because his action and chaos sped up significantly with his involvement. If he injured her, he fails (F). The optics and potential cost of a lawsuit are bad. Even if diverting her was necessary for the health and safety of people in the first arrest, he executed the diversion very poorly.

For more analysis, follow my Facebook page at Facebook.com/wastingtimeonasaturdaywhocaresanyway
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [ike] [ In reply to ]
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that first cop needs to be fired and charged with assault. His response was way over the top. Why couldn't he just ask her to move away and explain why; instead of grabbing her. She was no threat whatsoever.

Need to make cops personally liable for the mistakes they make; or at least their union - so the rest of us don't end up on the hook for financial settlements when they screw up.

And the question remains. where were you.
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [Barks&Purrs] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the story. Glad you can laugh about it now. I bet that professor doesn’t think it’s too funny yet, but she’ll probably enjoy telling the story when a little time has passed.
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [NormM] [ In reply to ]
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NormM wrote:
trail wrote:
NormM wrote:
Probably not a good idea to insert yourself into a chaotic melee and come up from behind and put your hand on an officer trying to subdue and handcuff someone. Professor of Econ is not a professor of common sense.


No, that's not a good idea. But it also seems like it might be an excessive response. The video doesn't work for me, but the description sounds like it might be short of what can be demonstrated as assault in a courtroom. If that were the charge. Possibly some sort of "interfering with a public officer" type of charge....


I agree with you. There will be a minor charge or no charge but during the chaos it's not surprising that they brought her down and handcuffed her. See if this works for you.


The video looks like she should be charged with resisting arrest?
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [ike] [ In reply to ]
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ike wrote:
Thanks for the story. Glad you can laugh about it now. I bet that professor doesn’t think it’s too funny yet, but she’ll probably enjoy telling the story when a little time has passed.

I felt like people were incredibly supportive of me, and I hope people reach out to her to support her. I remember receiving letters and actual money. I had no idea!

Going to a protest takes courage, just like speaking up anywhere takes courage. It’s okay if it goes a little sideways. I love when people are invested in politics and civic life. Making an effort to improve the world deserves some support. While I appreciate police who work for pay for public safety, volunteering time and energy via protest to improve public safety (in the Middle East or the USA) is commendable.
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [B.McMaster] [ In reply to ]
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B.McMaster wrote:
NormM wrote:
trail wrote:
NormM wrote:
Probably not a good idea to insert yourself into a chaotic melee and come up from behind and put your hand on an officer trying to subdue and handcuff someone. Professor of Econ is not a professor of common sense.


No, that's not a good idea. But it also seems like it might be an excessive response. The video doesn't work for me, but the description sounds like it might be short of what can be demonstrated as assault in a courtroom. If that were the charge. Possibly some sort of "interfering with a public officer" type of charge....


I agree with you. There will be a minor charge or no charge but during the chaos it's not surprising that they brought her down and handcuffed her. See if this works for you.


The video looks like she should be charged with resisting arrest?


I agree it looks like she's resisting. I'm not a fan of the idea that a person can get tagged for resisting arrest when they shouldn't have been arrested - which, from my perspective, she shouldn't have been - but it was also a dumb idea to insert herself in the situation.

It seems like resisting arrest should only hold if there is an initial charge that warrants an arrest and is upheld. If it's not upheld, resisting charge is dropped because an arrest shouldn't have been made. Exceptions if there is battery or something beyond resisting, but that would be a separate charge. That seems reasonable.
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [TomkR] [ In reply to ]
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This was a unique circumstance. I've seen many videos of an officer with back up arresting someone and a few family members getting unruly. This was different and the response rightly so in my opinion. It was a mob of people that were swarming and far outnumbered the police. They weren't in riot gear and the police officer that was down on his knees attempting to handcuff and restrain the person was very vulnerable to have one of the mob come up and hit him on the back or head. What she said and did besides being illegal could have precipitated others to be emboldened to attack. The other police literally had his back. Under those circumstances there is no room to demur
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [NormM] [ In reply to ]
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Mix of police types. Appears there were Emory police, perhaps Atlanta police and even the Georgia State Patrol (light blue uniforms). Lotta turmoil at Emory to include Israel-Palastine and Atlanta building a new Public Safety Complex which brings a different set of protesters to join the fray and increased police presence to this normally “chill” campus.
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [NormM] [ In reply to ]
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Yep she was agressive, interfered with an arrest, Physically reached out to another officer, who had no idea if she was armed or what her intent was. Would not follow instuction, kept screaming at the Police as if she had authority because she was a Professor of Economics.

When asked to move she repsended with agression, nort sure what the Police are meant to do othert than restrain her
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [Chemist] [ In reply to ]
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The problem is the outside agitators that showed up that are not students. They all had the same tents, were highly organized and placed there to create chaos. Now they are going to protest on Morehouse's campus because Biden is speaking at their graduation. Luckily these are private Universities that can remove outsiders off their campus for trespassing.
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [B.McMaster] [ In reply to ]
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The video looks like we have a police force who have absolutely no training in de-escalation and resort to brute force every time they are given the opportunity. How can one watch this video and say yup, she got what she deserved? That officer was itching for a confrontation and took it out on an old lady. Pathetically feeble.
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [Herbie Hancock] [ In reply to ]
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Herbie Hancock wrote:
The problem is the outside agitators that showed up that are not students. They all had the same tents, were highly organized and placed there to create chaos. Now they are going to protest on Morehouse's campus because Biden is speaking at their graduation. Luckily these are private Universities that can remove outsiders off their campus for trespassing.

Emory is a private university, right? Are you saying the university wanted chaos which is why they didn’t remove all of the uninvited guests?
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [TimeIsUp] [ In reply to ]
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Apparently she was “aggressive”.

Your Christofascist experiment is fascinating to watch. I’m hoping we pour Trump on that for another four years; last time it strengthened the traditional allies and isolated the US. I’m hopeful a similar four years will help shift the global decision making to a group where one nation alone gets their interests served. MAGA!
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [TimeIsUp] [ In reply to ]
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TimeIsUp wrote:
Herbie Hancock wrote:
The problem is the outside agitators that showed up that are not students. They all had the same tents, were highly organized and placed there to create chaos. Now they are going to protest on Morehouse's campus because Biden is speaking at their graduation. Luckily these are private Universities that can remove outsiders off their campus for trespassing.


Emory is a private university, right? Are you saying the university wanted chaos which is why they didn’t remove all of the uninvited guests?

No, My understanding is that they removed all the uninvited guests which is the only reason why Emory is not looking like Columbia, USC...etc
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [Herbie Hancock] [ In reply to ]
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Herbie Hancock wrote:
TimeIsUp wrote:
Herbie Hancock wrote:
The problem is the outside agitators that showed up that are not students. They all had the same tents, were highly organized and placed there to create chaos. Now they are going to protest on Morehouse's campus because Biden is speaking at their graduation. Luckily these are private Universities that can remove outsiders off their campus for trespassing.


Emory is a private university, right? Are you saying the university wanted chaos which is why they didn’t remove all of the uninvited guests?


No, My understanding is that they removed all the uninvited guests which is the only reason why Emory is not looking like Columbia, USC...etc

I'm not following your logic. Didn't the problems at Columbia and USC begin when they invited police onto their campus's to remove trespassers? Why did the same response cause such problems there, but not at Emory? I would argue the response has less to do with it than enrollment numbers, property size, and number of protesters. The response should be different. How about we stop short of LEO throwing an old woman to the ground though? This interaction should have absolutely gone a different way and no one would have ever heard about the protesting at Emory. Why can't we just admit this one officer was wrong this one time and hold him accountable? This officer's actions clearly indicate he had little self-control and shouldn't have been entrusted to act rationally in a time of discomfort.
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [TimeIsUp] [ In reply to ]
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TimeIsUp wrote:
Herbie Hancock wrote:
TimeIsUp wrote:
Herbie Hancock wrote:
The problem is the outside agitators that showed up that are not students. They all had the same tents, were highly organized and placed there to create chaos. Now they are going to protest on Morehouse's campus because Biden is speaking at their graduation. Luckily these are private Universities that can remove outsiders off their campus for trespassing.


Emory is a private university, right? Are you saying the university wanted chaos which is why they didn’t remove all of the uninvited guests?


No, My understanding is that they removed all the uninvited guests which is the only reason why Emory is not looking like Columbia, USC...etc


I'm not following your logic. Didn't the problems at Columbia and USC begin when they invited police onto their campus's to remove trespassers? Why did the same response cause such problems there, but not at Emory? I would argue the response has less to do with it than enrollment numbers, property size, and number of protesters. The response should be different. How about we stop short of LEO throwing an old woman to the ground though? This interaction should have absolutely gone a different way and no one would have ever heard about the protesting at Emory. Why can't we just admit this one officer was wrong this one time and hold him accountable? This officer's actions clearly indicate he had little self-control and shouldn't have been entrusted to act rationally in a time of discomfort.

Columbia's problem started when they allowed outside protestors to set up camp which let to them canceling in student classes and having no choice but to call in the police after it had gotten way out of hand. Emory was not having any of that and shut it down right away.
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [Herbie Hancock] [ In reply to ]
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Is that an accurate portrayal of the timeline? I thought the police were called in well before they decided to cancel classes. That police presence and those arrests lit the proverbial fire which led to cancelled classes and the current situation. It wasn't the other way around. We are going to have a rinse/repeat Tuesday night. I'm holding out hope LEO can refrain from tossing old women to the ground.
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [TimeIsUp] [ In reply to ]
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TimeIsUp wrote:
Is that an accurate portrayal of the timeline? I thought the police were called in well before they decided to cancel classes. That police presence and those arrests lit the proverbial fire which led to cancelled classes and the current situation. It wasn't the other way around. We are going to have a rinse/repeat Tuesday night. I'm holding out hope LEO can refrain from tossing old women to the ground.

Why would they move to on-line classes after the campus was clear? Emory dealt with the situation up front while Columbia dragged their feet until it was too late. Emory had the luxury of seeing the dumpster fire at Columbia so they had time plan their response. Columbia still won't shut it down. We'll see what and if anything happens at Morehouse.

What's happening Tuesday night?
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [TimeIsUp] [ In reply to ]
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TimeIsUp wrote:
This officer's actions clearly indicate he had little self-control and shouldn't have been entrusted to act rationally in a time of discomfort.

Reminds me a bit of the "super casual pepper spray cop" during the Occupy movement in 2011.

That guy was fired. Though got a bit of worker's comp and kept his retirement.

It's not easy being a campus administrator right now, finding the right place on the dial between "Kent State" and "let the protestors run the campus." While balancing speech rights and the rights of Jewish and other non-protesting students to be free from harrassment. And the rights of protestors and counter-protestors to all have their say.




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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [Herbie Hancock] [ In reply to ]
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Herbie Hancock wrote:
TimeIsUp wrote:
Is that an accurate portrayal of the timeline? I thought the police were called in well before they decided to cancel classes. That police presence and those arrests lit the proverbial fire which led to cancelled classes and the current situation. It wasn't the other way around. We are going to have a rinse/repeat Tuesday night. I'm holding out hope LEO can refrain from tossing old women to the ground.


Why would they move to on-line classes after the campus was clear? Emory dealt with the situation up front while Columbia dragged their feet until it was too late. Emory had the luxury of seeing the dumpster fire at Columbia so they had time plan their response. Columbia still won't shut it down. We'll see what and if anything happens at Morehouse.

What's happening Tuesday night?


Columbia cancelled classes because of what has happened after the initial set of ~100 arrests. Your argument made it sound like you were making the case the arrests didn’t happen soon enough and that would have prevented further escalation. It may have worked at Emory, time will tell, but from what I’ve read, it’s those arrests that not only kicked off the much different type of protest at Columbia, but also universities across the country.

Tuesday night is the next deadline to clear the protesting area. I assume more arrests will occur for those that don’t head the warning.
Last edited by: TimeIsUp: Apr 29, 24 4:31
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
TimeIsUp wrote:
This officer's actions clearly indicate he had little self-control and shouldn't have been entrusted to act rationally in a time of discomfort.

Reminds me a bit of the "super casual pepper spray cop" during the Occupy movement in 2011.

That guy was fired. Though got a bit of worker's comp and kept his retirement.

It's not easy being a campus administrator right now, finding the right place on the dial between "Kent State" and "let the protestors run the campus." While balancing speech rights and the rights of Jewish and other non-protesting students to be free from harrassment. And the rights of protestors and counter-protestors to all have their say.




I’m absolutely not trying to marginalize how difficult their job might be. I’m simply trying to say not everybody should be doing it.
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [TimeIsUp] [ In reply to ]
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My argument is that is worked at Emory. They waited too long at Columbia since they had already pitched their tents well before the cops moved in to clear the situation. Now the administration only has two choices: 1. negotiate with terrorists or 2. send in the cops which will not end well for either side.

I'm now reading that protestors/terrorists have taken over two academic buildings in California?
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [Herbie Hancock] [ In reply to ]
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Herbie Hancock wrote:
My argument is that is worked at Emory. They waited too long at Columbia since they had already pitched their tents well before the cops moved in to clear the situation. Now the administration only has two choices: 1. negotiate with terrorists or 2. send in the cops which will not end well for either side.

I'm now reading that protestors/terrorists have taken over two academic buildings in California?

And I’m arguing we’ll never know what these protests would have looked like if Columbia wouldn’t have jumped the gun and brought in police so early. That in part set off a chain of events we are now having to deal with.

I would think taking over a building is an obvious trespassing charge. Clearly not everyone feels that way seeing as Trump gets cheers when he says he will pardon the terrorists (your word) who stormed the Capitol.
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [Herbie Hancock] [ In reply to ]
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FWIW, 20 out of 28 people arrested were from Emory community per reports. I have a couple of family members who are students there and they said a lot of students did attend the protests. Lots of debate in student body about this; it's not just outside agitators.


Herbie Hancock wrote:
The problem is the outside agitators that showed up that are not students. They all had the same tents, were highly organized and placed there to create chaos. Now they are going to protest on Morehouse's campus because Biden is speaking at their graduation. Luckily these are private Universities that can remove outsiders off their campus for trespassing.
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Re: Two cops aggressively take down an Emory Econ professor [jkuo] [ In reply to ]
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jkuo wrote:
FWIW, 20 out of 28 people arrested were from Emory community per reports. I have a couple of family members who are students there and they said a lot of students did attend the protests. Lots of debate in student body about this; it's not just outside agitators.


Herbie Hancock wrote:
The problem is the outside agitators that showed up that are not students. They all had the same tents, were highly organized and placed there to create chaos. Now they are going to protest on Morehouse's campus because Biden is speaking at their graduation. Luckily these are private Universities that can remove outsiders off their campus for trespassing.

Not just but they were the ones poking the fire. Since they have been removed the protests on campus have been peaceful. The public safety training facility is a different issue.
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