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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
KKG wrote:
lt's the same kind of people that think racism only exist in the USA. It's not worth listening to those ppl.


Well said. There is racism in the usa, but there is also lots of racism in Europe. Unfortunately, there is probably no country that is free of it.

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There is no country free of it and anyone who says white people can't be the victims of racism have their heads firmly buried in only one narrative.You are fixated on that one narrative here.
Last edited by: ThailandUltras: Jul 4, 20 21:10
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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ThailandUltras wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
KKG wrote:
lt's the same kind of people that think racism only exist in the USA. It's not worth listening to those ppl.


Well said. There is racism in the usa, but there is also lots of racism in Europe. Unfortunately, there is probably no country that is free of it.

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There is no country free of it and anyone who says white people can't be the victims of racism have their heads firmly buried in only one narrative.You are fixated on that one narrative here.
Being born with white privilege is a heavy cross to bare...
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic wrote:
ThailandUltras wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
KKG wrote:
lt's the same kind of people that think racism only exist in the USA. It's not worth listening to those ppl.


Well said. There is racism in the usa, but there is also lots of racism in Europe. Unfortunately, there is probably no country that is free of it.

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There is no country free of it and anyone who says white people can't be the victims of racism have their heads firmly buried in only one narrative.You are fixated on that one narrative here.

Being born with white privilege is a heavy cross to bare...
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Being abused and attacked multiple times for being "A white cunt" certainly is...
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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That is pretty sad. How were you attacked like this?

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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
That is pretty sad. How were you attacked like this?
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Spend enough time in northern Australia and it happens so often it becomes normal.I have lived in,worked in and travelled around Northern Queensland and central Queensland,NSW,Northern Territory and Western Australia over the last 30 years and it is part of life.Living in a mining town on Cape York in far north Queensland was the worst example of hatred not only against whites but between Abroginal communities themselves.Horrific stuff that you just can't talk about in todays society because nobody wants to recognise it.I was taken to hospital in Cairns one time after being attacked for no reason in downtown Cairns only then to be attacked again in the Emergency Room,for no other reason than being white.It was way worse in the '80s but it still happens and people are so concerned about being called racist that nobody wants to talk about it.

I could go on and on and on with examples of incidents that have happened to me,to my friends or to random people I have helped after they were attacked but again,mention any of this stuff now and you are a racist.The most recent was last year in Cairns during Ironman week.I checked in to my hotel on the esplanade on the same block I used to live on.Off I go around the corner to the IGA to buy food and it took one block for the old times to come back.There in the gutter in the middle of the day was an aboriginal guy out cold with blood coming out of his head.I immediately though " Oh shit here we go again" as I debated if I should help.Thing is,if you do try to help it is seen as getting into people business and you end up abused,or worse and that is what happened.As soon as I approached the guy to see if he was still alive the abuse from the apartment block on the street started and two aboriginal women came out and told me to "Fuck off you white cunt,he deserves to be there". I stood there for a few seconds as the second wave of abuse flew my way as more people came out of their ground floor flat and confronted me.I then just walked away from the whole scene.There was no point even trying to reason with them.I left that guy out cold while those people,hurled abuse at me instead of trying to help the poor bastard bleeding in the gutter.

The week before Challenge Cairns back in 2011 I was again on the esplanade where the run course is and a group of black guys from the local mission were,in broad daylight,in front of all the tourists,pissing on the public barbeques(right on the cooking surfaces) yelling "Get the fuck out of our country you white cunts!" to everyone standing around. You are not allowed to talk about it though and I am sure I will get shit right here for even mentioning all of this.

It is so normal that it hardly registers anymore and while not as violent the situation isn't much different in Asia. Hell,in a tweet in March the Health Minister of Thailand blamed the spread of Corona Virus on "Western tourists who are dirty and don't shower".(the term Farang is a derogatory term used to describe white people,much like Gaijin in Japan and Gweilo in Hong Kong)
https://coconuts.co/...lth-minister-tweets/
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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I had read you live in Hong Kong in other posts but I thought that must be Australia he is talking about...
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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You seem to be mostly referring to cultural backlash against colonial intrusion (though Thailand largely resisted) . I had some similar experiences backpacking in some remote parts of Hawaii, where apparently tourists aren't supposed to go. No one's going to call you a racist for talking about that. Racism begets racism - go figure. It'd be nice if those who lost the colonial battles would just "let it go" and get on with life. But sometimes they don't.

Though in this thread you do seem to have a hard time acknowledging that UCI-sanctioned pro cycling is lily white. Even if there are sub cultures of cycling in some places.
Last edited by: trail: Jul 5, 20 16:11
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic wrote:
I had read you live in Hong Kong in other posts but I thought that must be Australia he is talking about...
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I lived in Hong Kong from 1963 to 1980 when half of my family moved into China and I moved to Australia.
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
You seem to be mostly referring to cultural backlash against colonial intrusion (though Thailand largely resisted) . I had some similar experiences backpacking in some remote parts of Hawaii, where apparently tourists aren't supposed to go. No one's going to call you a racist for talking about that. Racism begets racism - go figure. It'd be nice if those who lost the colonial battles would just "let it go" and get on with life. But sometimes they don't.

Though in this thread you do seem to have a hard time acknowledging that UCI-sanctioned pro cycling is lily white. Even if there are sub cultures of cycling in some places.


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The topic of this thread is "Cycling" not pro cycling just as the diversity thread was about "Triathlon" and not pro triathlon. Cycling at the very highest level of the UCI is largely white,nobody is doubting that but the entire UCI racing series around the world isn't. As I pointed out the Olympic cycling program is well represented by non white nations so when we look at those two situations we can assume that if there are lots of non white cycling nations in the Olympics and not the UCI Pro Tour then the non white cycling nations haven't reached a talent level to have them compete at the very highest level of cycling competition. I gave a reason for that in my very first post on this thread.
Last edited by: ThailandUltras: Jul 5, 20 16:58
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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Agree with you regarding the title of the thread. But the title of the thread is just the title of the article linked by us in the OP. And the title of the piece, of necessity, uses literary shortcuts to title the brief interview article. Did you look at the article?

(I mean, imagine an article titled, "ln the sport of professional cycling in Europe, among both the professional riders and the administrative staff in high level professional cycle racing governing bodies, are perhaps lacking athletes and staffers of African descent, or at least relative to the percentage of individuals of African descent residing in European countries").

That just doesn't have the zing of "Is cycling the whitest sport on earth"

In the end, this thread was never started to get into semantic arguments, more just to share one (highly unrepresented) rider's opinion about riding and about life, and to ask, can cycling do better?

To which, l think the answer is, 'certainly'.

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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Agree with you regarding the title of the thread. But the title of the thread is just the title of the article linked by us in the OP. And the title of the piece, of necessity, uses literary shortcuts to title the brief interview article. Did you look at the article?

(I mean, imagine an article titled, "ln the sport of professional cycling in Europe, among both the professional riders and the administrative staff in high level professional cycle racing governing bodies, are perhaps lacking athletes and staffers of African descent, or at least relative to the percentage of individuals of African descent residing in European countries").

That just doesn't have the zing of "Is cycling the whitest sport on earth"

In the end, this thread was never started to get into semantic arguments, more just to share one (highly unrepresented) rider's opinion about riding and about life, and to ask, can cycling do better?

To which, l think the answer is, 'certainly'.


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It would be great to see the power of cycling in the peloton move from Euro cyclists to another region but at the moment the biggest talent is in Europe and some Latin countries.The Pro Tour teams are in the business of wining races so giving spots to cycling minorities for the sake of diversity makes no sense,That is the responsibility of the UCI and that is what they are doing via their other tour events around the world.It is not the fault of the Pro Tour teams that the developing nations have not reached a standard where more of them are represented.

Here are all the UCI Tour events in Asia in 2019. There are 31 events spread over 13 Asian nations with 44 different teams competing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_UCI_Asia_Tour
Last edited by: ThailandUltras: Jul 5, 20 17:29
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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Sure, generally, l follow.

But it is not all about assigning 'fault'.

It is more that white and non-white and black individuals have all proven themselves to be extraordinary athletes in endurance sports when reasonable opportunity and encouragement is offered to all. But, we all know that few, if any, societies provide this.

And competition is not really competition when even the playing field starts out inherently unfair.

Maybe that will never change. But here is hoping that it should, and that it will ...

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Last edited by: DarkSpeedWorks: Jul 5, 20 20:11
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Agree with you regarding the title of the thread. But the title of the thread is just the title of the article linked by us in the OP. And the title of the piece, of necessity, uses literary shortcuts to title the brief interview article. Did you look at the article?

(I mean, imagine an article titled, "ln the sport of professional cycling in Europe, among both the professional riders and the administrative staff in high level professional cycle racing governing bodies, are perhaps lacking athletes and staffers of African descent, or at least relative to the percentage of individuals of African descent residing in European countries").

That just doesn't have the zing of "Is cycling the whitest sport on earth"

In the end, this thread was never started to get into semantic arguments, more just to share one (highly unrepresented) rider's opinion about riding and about life, and to ask, can cycling do better?

To which, l think the answer is, 'certainly'.

OK but if we are going to get all egalitarian about promoting top end cycling to other groups of non white descent in Europe, then why do Europeans of African decent need to get priority over Europeans of Turkish, Arab, South Asian, Cambodian, Indonesian or Chinese descent? I understand the US context about black populations. But in Europe, they are another group of the population who largely got there due to being part of the European colony network.

Long before the world cup winning French soccer team from the 2018 world cup (many of whom were West African descent Frenchmen) the French team was first lead by by Zinedine Zidane one of the greatest of all time (well if you are French). Not that many Zidanes (French athletes born in France of Algerian descent) in the pro cycling ranks either.
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I asked him pages ago why Native Americans weren't more represented in world swimming as it posed just as much logic to the narrative being driven but I didn't get a response.
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic wrote:
I asked him pages ago why Native Americans weren't more represented in world swimming as it posed just as much logic to the narrative being driven but I didn't get a response.

Sorry, l did not catch that. Did not know you were seriously asking. Not sure where you are from, but native Americans have been and are treated beyond horrifically in the usa. Probably the only group that has gotten worse treatment here are the descendants of African slaves. To the best of my knowledge, Native Americans are not well represented in any elite sport in the usa.

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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Agree with you regarding the title of the thread. But the title of the thread is just the title of the article linked by us in the OP. And the title of the piece, of necessity, uses literary shortcuts to title the brief interview article. Did you look at the article?

(I mean, imagine an article titled, "ln the sport of professional cycling in Europe, among both the professional riders and the administrative staff in high level professional cycle racing governing bodies, are perhaps lacking athletes and staffers of African descent, or at least relative to the percentage of individuals of African descent residing in European countries").

That just doesn't have the zing of "Is cycling the whitest sport on earth"

In the end, this thread was never started to get into semantic arguments, more just to share one (highly unrepresented) rider's opinion about riding and about life, and to ask, can cycling do better?

To which, l think the answer is, 'certainly'.

OK but if we are going to get all egalitarian about promoting top end cycling to other groups of non white descent in Europe, then why do Europeans of African decent need to get priority over Europeans of Turkish, Arab, South Asian, Cambodian, Indonesian or Chinese descent?I

They shouldn't, and l don't think anyone is/was saying otherwise. It is just that in the article (the one linked in the OP), they are interviewing a black cyclist so naturally they are talking about black riders in this particular case. Not rocket science.

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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Shambolic wrote:
I asked him pages ago why Native Americans weren't more represented in world swimming as it posed just as much logic to the narrative being driven but I didn't get a response.


Sorry, l did not catch that. Did not know you were seriously asking. Not sure where you are from, but native Americans have been and are treated beyond horrifically in the usa. Probably the only group that has gotten worse treatment here are the descendants of African slaves. To the best of my knowledge, Native Americans are not well represented in any elite sport in the usa.
So it is racism that every race and ethnicity is misrepresented in every sport of the world. I get it now...
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Agree with you regarding the title of the thread. But the title of the thread is just the title of the article linked by us in the OP. And the title of the piece, of necessity, uses literary shortcuts to title the brief interview article. Did you look at the article?

(I mean, imagine an article titled, "ln the sport of professional cycling in Europe, among both the professional riders and the administrative staff in high level professional cycle racing governing bodies, are perhaps lacking athletes and staffers of African descent, or at least relative to the percentage of individuals of African descent residing in European countries").

That just doesn't have the zing of "Is cycling the whitest sport on earth"

In the end, this thread was never started to get into semantic arguments, more just to share one (highly unrepresented) rider's opinion about riding and about life, and to ask, can cycling do better?

To which, l think the answer is, 'certainly'.


OK but if we are going to get all egalitarian about promoting top end cycling to other groups of non white descent in Europe, then why do Europeans of African decent need to get priority over Europeans of Turkish, Arab, South Asian, Cambodian, Indonesian or Chinese descent?I


They shouldn't, and l don't think anyone is/was saying otherwise. It is just that in the article (the one linked in the OP), they are interviewing a black cyclist so naturally they are talking about black riders in this particular case. Not rocket science.

Just so you know, I don't think most people read the article. We are responding to the title of your thread. We don't care about the underlying article only the discussion on the thread. When you fixate on black Europeans who are not marginalized more than first or second gen Europeans from other colonies, I'm asking you to look wider, not just black Europeans since we're talking about high end UCI cycling in Europe and those from former colonies may or may not have access to turn pro in cycling.
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Shambolic wrote:
I asked him pages ago why Native Americans weren't more represented in world swimming as it posed just as much logic to the narrative being driven but I didn't get a response.


Sorry, l did not catch that. Did not know you were seriously asking. Not sure where you are from, but native Americans have been and are treated beyond horrifically in the usa. Probably the only group that has gotten worse treatment here are the descendants of African slaves. To the best of my knowledge, Native Americans are not well represented in any elite sport in the usa.
So it is racism that every race and ethnicity is misrepresented in every sport of the world. I get it now...

Not sure if that is the case in every situation in every place on the planet, but for sure the treatment of native Americans and African Americans in the usa has been profoundly terrible (and that is putting it very very mildly) throughout the entire history of the usa. There is no debate there.

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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Ah, gotcha. The subject line is just the exact title of the linked article, but made some edits for better clarity.

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Last edited by: DarkSpeedWorks: Jul 6, 20 6:49
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