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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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ThailandUltras wrote:
Yet again the narrative that diversity only counts if African American athletes are the focus. How about looking at the entire world before someone claims that "cycling is a white". If anyone bothered to check out the Asian Games,the South East Asian Games and the World Youth Games they would see medal competitions for female cyclists in Road,track,MTB and BMX. The same applies in Africa and the Latin countries and their respective "Games".

Almost a third of the countries represented in the Female Olympic Road Race in Rio were from "non-white" countries.The hard truth is that perhaps the non-white nations also happen to be from mainly poorer,developing nations and that can't foster talent to be competitive at the highest level.Perhaps also, that socio-economic reality is also reflected in the African American cycling community.

Having enough funding to move a country from developing nation to first world competitive nation is the issue.In western,first world countries there are still cultural reasons and financial barriers that have shaped the makeup of various sporting landscapes.If there is no money then there are few development programs.If there is no development there is little interest.If there is little interest then there is little participation and if there is little participation there is little chance of talent moving to the top of the sport.

The British media is currently fueling a completely unnecessarily and over dramatized battle over cycling. Cycling the UK gained popularity following years of Olympic success and the the media has been aggressively to capitalize on this by creating a fabricated 'cultural war on cycling.' This article is from the telegraph which is a very much a guilty party here i.e. (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/...louts-on-wheels.html) and switching the emphasis to race is just a way to keep adding fuel to the fire. So the information in the article needs to be viewed in light of the agenda behind why it was written (to sell papers by stirring controversy).


I completely agree that it is absurd to extrapolate that to the 'Sport of Cycling.' I would counter that cycling ranks as one of the most diverse sports on the planet due to its wide spread global popularity. Very few sports can claim the equivalence of the Tour de France, Tour of Eritrea, Tour Colombia, Tour Down Under, Tour on Qinghai Lake, etc. My wife is into rhythmic gymnastics and trampolining (god help her) which are both in the Olympics and are preposterously white and elitist relative to cycling. However this only underscores that the fact that ~70% of the other cyclist commuters I see here in the North-east of England are white males 25-50 is cultural problem that needs to be addressed. Cycling has a broader appeal which is very clear on a global level but locally we have an exclusion/access problem.
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [Pathlete] [ In reply to ]
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I will give my 2020 100 entry to a person of color. If you know someone interested, pm me their info and I’ll connect with the event directors to see if it can be transferred.
Last edited by: Carl Spackler: Jun 28, 20 7:23
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
A kinda sobering interview with world's first female black pro cyclist:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/...st-african-american/?


They may have wanted to look around a little, before they said it that way
ETA: Sorry, they DID say "African-American" and Ceylin is Dominican with Dutch nationality



https://www.bicycling.com/...o-womens-cyclocross/

Unless they're only talking Pro Tour ROAD Cycling

https://www.bicycling.com/...clists-on-instagram/

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Last edited by: RandMart: Jun 28, 20 7:08
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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ThailandUltras wrote:
Yet again the narrative that diversity only counts if African American athletes are the focus. How about looking at the entire world before someone claims that "cycling is a white".
In the US (the rider interviewed is an american), I think that there is a specific focus on African Americans because (1) the rider interviewed is African American and because (2) African Americans were enslaved for several hundred years and because (3), even compared to other minorities in the usa, to this day African Americans experience the most severe and widespread racism (see, George Floyd et al.)

Finally, in ANY country in ANY place in the world, out of billions and people and many millions of cyclists, how many full-time professional black cyclists are there? Anyone have an idea? I imagine that there are not many. And full time professional women? Even less.

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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks, that was my paraphrasing error. Now corrected.

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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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While not American, there is already at least one female pro cyclist of African descent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teniel_Campbell

And I am also surprised that no one has already mentioned it, but there has got to be at least 20 (likely more) Colombian cyclist in the pro tour.
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [trener1] [ In reply to ]
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I hear you, it was mentioned above.

But how many actually black riders of either gender in the full time pro road ranks ?

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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [cowboy7] [ In reply to ]
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cowboy7 wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
That is the title of the short interview linked below, with the focus on professional cycling and folks in power on governing bodies and the like.

Not sure if is the whitest sport on earth, but, if it is, one has gotta wonder if triathlon is right up there in a close second place ...

A kinda sobering interview with world's first female black pro cyclist:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/...st-african-american/?


I would say skiing, equestrian and generally motorsports

Equestrian? If anything, white horses are under represented.
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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But you haven't.

Or would you give up your Kona slot as well? My guess is no. After busting your ass for years and months and days and hours, enduring all that it takes to reach Kona, you'd be hard-pressed to give away your slot. Not because you are a racist but because wanting, working for and earning something is worth so much more than having it given to you.

Some people love to tell others how to live but when the rubber hits the road, they often aren't willing to make sacrifices themselves.

My daughter and her friends are on the protest lines in Seattle. Each one attended an elite east coast school and not a one of them gave their slot in college to an underprivileged person - nor did they ask to.
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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The minute cycling, triathlon and swimming start paying as well as the major leagues do, you will see more diversity. My older kid went through 7 years of being on a good swim team here in LA - there were black kids on it, good enough swimmers for a div1 level even, but all from the wealthy families, who simply used it as a way to keep their kids focused on getting into college. Same deal was in figure skating before, and in competitive dancing as well... If you're a poorer black family and your kid shows some promise in say baseball and cycling - it's a no brainer to push them into the former, since the potential payout is so much larger. And when you're poor, opportunities are valued very differently....

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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Cycling pays pretty damn well in Europe ... still very few black athletes.

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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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alex_korr wrote:
The minute cycling, triathlon and swimming start paying as well as the major leagues do, you will see more diversity.

I disagree. The bulk of competitive sports isn't professional, and not many choices are aren't overt economic optimization decisions like that.
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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Good call - I was just going to point about Alvarado.

In any case she is going road also - going to be on a road team with CX stars Worst and Cant. (The not-motivational-sounding duo).

Those 3 should have exciting to watch to see if they can take it to the pure roadies.
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [Pathlete] [ In reply to ]
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Pathlete wrote:
But you haven't.

Or would you give up your Kona slot as well? My guess is no. After busting your ass for years and months and days and hours, enduring all that it takes to reach Kona, you'd be hard-pressed to give away your slot. Not because you are a racist but because wanting, working for and earning something is worth so much more than having it given to you.

Some people love to tell others how to live but when the rubber hits the road, they often aren't willing to make sacrifices themselves.

My daughter and her friends are on the protest lines in Seattle. Each one attended an elite east coast school and not a one of them gave their slot in college to an underprivileged person - nor did they ask to.

I disagree with this whole zero-sum-game slant you're taking on things.
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [Pathlete] [ In reply to ]
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Pathlete wrote:
But you haven't.

Or would you give up your Kona slot as well?

Have not gone to race Kona or to the DK. But, years ago for college, l did get redirected to a different campus of the University of Calif system likely because likely affirmative action limited white students at my campus of choice. Was totally good with it even though it had a lot bigger effect on my life than Kona or the DK ...

On the other hand, it had a lot smaller effect on my life than being intensely discriminated against since the moment of birth (if l was black) ...

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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
ThailandUltras wrote:
Yet again the narrative that diversity only counts if African American athletes are the focus. How about looking at the entire world before someone claims that "cycling is a white".

In the US (the rider interviewed is an american), I think that there is a specific focus on African Americans because (1) the rider interviewed is African American and because (2) African Americans were enslaved for several hundred years and because (3), even compared to other minorities in the usa, to this day African Americans experience the most severe and widespread racism (see, George Floyd et al.)

Finally, in ANY country in ANY place in the world, out of billions and people and many millions of cyclists, how many full-time professional black cyclists are there? Anyone have an idea? I imagine that there are not many. And full time professional women? Even less.[/quote


……..

Show me how many African American cyclists have the talent to be full time professional cyclists.Show me how many African American cyclist there are who have the talent but are being refused the opportunity to race pro.This is something you fail to address and if there are pro level athletes that are being actively refused the opportunity then lets let the cycling world know about it.I suspect that scenario isn't happening. Maybe the hard truth is that,at the moment,there just aren't the number of African Americans who are interested in making the leap to the professional ranks.

It is about funding,access and active development and I'll quote myself from my original post on this thread..
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"Almost a third of the countries represented in the Female Olympic Road Race in Rio were from "non-white" countries.The hard truth is that perhaps the non-white nations also happen to be from mainly poorer,developing nations and that can't foster talent to be competitive at the highest level.Perhaps also, that socio-economic reality is also reflected in the African American cycling community.

Having enough funding to move a country from developing nation to first world competitive nation is the issue.In western,first world countries there are still cultural reasons and financial barriers that have shaped the makeup of various sporting landscapes.If there is no money then there are few development programs.If there is no development there is little interest.If there is little interest then there is little participation and if there is little participation there is little chance of talent moving to the top of the sport."
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Last edited by: ThailandUltras: Jun 28, 20 16:07
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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No need to quote.

In Europe, why are there not more black pro cyclists, say, as many there are in Euro football (soccer for americans) ?

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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
No need to quote.

In Europe, why are there not more black pro cyclists, say, as many there are in Euro football (soccer for americans) ?

..
Because being a professional footballer starts when you are a kid(for some under contract) Because as kids they were not interested in cycling but ran around with a football under their arm all day kicking it in the streets with their mates pretending they were playing for Brazil in the World Cup.

I am from Hong Kong and that is exactly what I did,all day,every day. I even got to meet Pele.
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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ThailandUltras wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
No need to quote.

In Europe, why are there not more black pro cyclists, say, as many there are in Euro football (soccer for americans) ?


..
Because being a professional footballer starts when you are a kid(for some under contract) Because as kids they were not interested in cycling but ran around with a football under their arm all day kicking it in the streets with their mates pretending they were playing for Brazil in the World Cup.

I am from Hong Kong and that is exactly what I did,all day,every day. I even got to meet Pele.
Seems it may be time to stop trying to have a rational conversation?
Add to the fact having worked in Tanzania for four years the roads in Africa are majority dirt. I rode from Nairobi Kenya to Dar Es Salaam Tanzania over several weeks and every other day from work lots of people riding brand new Chinese made bikes same design as pre WW2 as transport or a makeshift seat on the back as a taxi. The place is poor and kids make soccer balls out of plastic bags because they can’t afford balls, live in mud huts with a small crop of maize and a cow if they are a rich family let alone buy a bike. The talent pool to choose from isn’t great.
There is money in football, it’s the international game like baseball is to the US so African interest is high, locals flock to games, tournaments readily, easily organised and competition is high so for talent to make it out isn’t so hard as there will be a lot of scouts. At the World Cup there HAS TO BE several African nations so talent will be spotted on the biggest stage in the world (if it hasn’t already) and it will Make it to Europe.
Swimming you need a pool, coaches and interest in the sport so why aren’t there more African swimmers? Is this racist? Running you need a set of shoes if you are lucky to get started, interest in the sport, a talent pool and what do you know Africa dominates the sport. I’ve been following the post and the whole cycling is a racist sport I am finding somewhat tiresome.
Being Australian I remember watching Eric the Eel at the 2000 Sydney Olympic games read his story and watch the video pretty much sums up why some African sports are misrepresented.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Moussambani
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQbKCHsRIyk
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic wrote:
ThailandUltras wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
No need to quote.

In Europe, why are there not more black pro cyclists, say, as many there are in Euro football (soccer for americans) ?


..
Because being a professional footballer starts when you are a kid(for some under contract) Because as kids they were not interested in cycling but ran around with a football under their arm all day kicking it in the streets with their mates pretending they were playing for Brazil in the World Cup.

I am from Hong Kong and that is exactly what I did,all day,every day. I even got to meet Pele.
Seems it may be time to stop trying to have a rational conversation?
Add to the fact having worked in Tanzania for four years the roads in Africa are majority dirt. I rode from Nairobi Kenya to Dar Es Salaam Tanzania over several weeks and every other day from work lots of people riding brand new Chinese made bikes same design as pre WW2 as transport or a makeshift seat on the back as a taxi. The place is poor and kids make soccer balls out of plastic bags because they can’t afford balls, live in mud huts with a small crop of maize and a cow if they are a rich family let alone buy a bike. The talent pool to choose from isn’t great.
There is money in football, it’s the international game like baseball is to the US so African interest is high, locals flock to games, tournaments readily, easily organised and competition is high so for talent to make it out isn’t so hard as there will be a lot of scouts. At the World Cup there HAS TO BE several African nations so talent will be spotted on the biggest stage in the world (if it hasn’t already) and it will Make it to Europe.
Swimming you need a pool, coaches and interest in the sport so why aren’t there more African swimmers? Is this racist? Running you need a set of shoes if you are lucky to get started, interest in the sport, a talent pool and what do you know Africa dominates the sport. I’ve been following the post and the whole cycling is a racist sport I am finding somewhat tiresome.
Being Australian I remember watching Eric the Eel at the 2000 Sydney Olympic games read his story and watch the video pretty much sums up why some African sports are misrepresented.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Moussambani
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQbKCHsRIyk

About Africa, l understand. That is not rocket science.

But, in Europe, why so very very very few full time professional black road racers? Ones raised in Europe or anywhere. Because there are LOTS of poor working class white euro riders that manage to somehow get a bike and ride to the top, or near the top. But not so with black riders in Europe even though pro rider pay is good. Why? Serious question.

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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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Look at the soccer or basketball leagues in Europe. The black athletes are more than adequately represented. That's because there are thousands of teams that pay quite well, not mentions offer chances to get paid in the US or Russia. Cycling has how many major teams that pay maybe $50-60k a year to everyone but the 2-3 top dogs? Of course there are some historical reasons that are holding them back too (ie no black Chris Froome, etc), and that might also be a major factor...

Again, once the socioeconomic status of most black people improves, you will see them better represented in sports that require a larger upfront investment and a potentially smaller payoff.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
Last edited by: alex_korr: Jun 28, 20 18:13
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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Because most Africans there will be migrants coming from a football fanatic family no doubt wanting to be the next football star and the way they make friends and community is through a common sport. Cycling is foreign to them. Meanwhile their neighbours in France, Spain, Italy, Belgium non migrants are generations of cycling fanatics. That’s not rocket science.
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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alex_korr wrote:
Look at the soccer or basketball leagues in Europe. The black athletes are more than adequately represented.


There's a correlation there, not necessarily a causation.

As I commented earlier, I think you're seeking the wrong causation assuming everything comes down to naked economic opportunism.

Kids play because it's fun, mostly. Not because their parents have made a cold calculation about what might have the best ROI 15 years later. Soccer and basketball are culturally dominant ways to have fun (in the U.S. too). It's rare to see black kids racing bikes in organized bike races for fun. At least in the U.S. For a variety of reasons, probably. You're kind of weird if you're racing bikes. That's the story that the Williams bros. in the U.S. tell - they're kind of nerds (even though they don't look like it).

Edit: I agree completely with Shambolic above. Every black (and white) kid knows the soccer heroes. Knowledge of cycling heroes tend to be isolated to much smaller communities. It's just foreign.
Last edited by: trail: Jun 28, 20 18:21
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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Of course in euro football(soccer), black athletes are well represented (l am not as familiar with euro basketball). But, again, many many very low income white athletes manage to do very well in professional euro cycling. But not so for black athletes ...

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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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But many many blacks are UK and European natives, what about them?

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