Echos of swimming and Simone Manuel’s statements, but at least in swimming they did a second statement which had input from black athletes Including Manuel, Lia Neal, Cullen Jones maybe Ervin?

And as far as cycling, it’s pretty “white” at the pro tour level, but internationally i think it’s fairly diverse. Colombia usually has good riders, and I have been enjoying Justin Williams YouTube channel. Looks like there are a number of black and Hispanic riders on the US domestic scene.

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I highly doubt that cycling is more white then Hockey, where I am (in NYC) most of the local races are about half black and Hispanic guys, granted this is hyper local, as soon as I drive to PA to do a race the ratio drops allot, but I can't think of anyplace even on the local level that would have so many non whites playing hockey.

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http://www.instagram.com/cyclewise

Not fact based, but Sspeed walking seems pretty white

And curling and nordic skiing at a guess

Endurance sports tend to be pretty dominated by whites, but I feel this may be the result of history and not physiology. Over the next several decades I am sure the ratio will even out

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Strava

Only one of those is a sport

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Matt

Yet again the narrative that diversity only counts if African American athletes are the focus. How about looking at the entire world before someone claims that "cycling is a white". If anyone bothered to check out the Asian Games,the South East Asian Games and the World Youth Games they would see medal competitions for female cyclists in Road,track,MTB and BMX. The same applies in Africa and the Latin countries and their respective "Games".

Almost a third of the countries represented in the Female Olympic Road Race in Rio were from "non-white" countries.The hard truth is that perhaps the non-white nations also happen to be from mainly poorer,developing nations and that can't foster talent to be competitive at the highest level.Perhaps also, that socio-economic reality is also reflected in the African American cycling community.

Having enough funding to move a country from developing nation to first world competitive nation is the issue.In western,first world countries there are still cultural reasons and financial barriers that have shaped the makeup of various sporting landscapes.If there is no money then there are few development programs.If there is no development there is little interest.If there is little interest then there is little participation and if there is little participation there is little chance of talent moving to the top of the sport.

Yeah, there’s no way speed walking and Nordic skiing should be in the olympics.

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It seems like this article is written to get views because of what is going on right now. It really doesn't say anything that is informative. It states that a lot of people protesting, probably don't really care and are just doing that because it's the popular thing to do. Then she mentions that it is disappointing UCI took 2 weeks to say anything publicly and that the words were empty and they didn't want to change. In reality I can bet a lot of big organizations don't really care like the protesters, but feel they have to come out and support BLM because it's a smart business move. Also it is not mentioned about any discrimination black cyclists have faced (apart from USA cycling having & British cycling having no black people on their boards, which is not a surprise given most cyclists are white) so what should the UCI be changing?

Your logic is kind of circular. Most cyclists are white, therefore it's not a surprise that the leadership is all white. No problem here. Move along!

Just because most Cyclists are white does not mean there is an issue. Cycling is an expensive sport. African Americans have a far higher percentage of people living in poverty than white people. This automatically will see the average black cyclists plummet. If you asked black kids what they think about Cycling I would say there is a pretty good chance many would say it's a sport for goofy middle aged white guys. Not that they would like to participate because they don't feel welcome.

Certain races gravitate to different sports a higher percentage of black people are sprinters than the ave population, a higher percentage of latino's are Baseballers etc.

Not saying there is no problem with racism in Cycling, but if there is, the person who wrote the article should have done more research about people who have faced racism and what can be done to fix this.

Sailboat racing.

Almost all cyclists in India and China accounting for more than 2.5B of the world's population are not white people. I am certain if there was enough money put behind all those people, we'd have enough pro riders from there. If China can compete on medal count in the Olympics and if India can be a constant power in the one sport it actually cares about, there has to be enough genetic talent kicking around to pack the protour with athletes from these nations. Its just a lack of interest in cycling as a sport in these countries. No doubt some of those 5'8" bike rickshaw guys who weigh in at 128 lbs would be amazing hill climbers on the bike...just need to find the 6+ watt per kilo FTP people from that gene pool and we're good to go. No doubt there are kids in there with the same genetic horsepower as Froome, but they never get identified.

and a sweet doing program

..
The Olympic channel on YouTube has plenty of videos highlighting African cycling and what is being done to try and develop the sport on that continent.There are plenty of other mini-documentaries about cycling around the world.I know that I am a dateless loser and have all kinds of time on my hands but I can't be the only person here on ST who knows about these videos and the history of cycling away from the UCI elite.

Speaking of rickshaw riders,here is a short piece on the Taxi Bike Riders of Rwanda..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiM1aHQBzsQ

Since I keep seeing the number of blacks on the World Tour, how many American’s are on the World Tour? How about Canadians?

This topic will only be commented by privileged white people making examples of how cycling and triathlon don't have a problem. There have been plenty of past posts talking about how there is no diversity in our sport, its nothing new. I live in a very diverse city and every single tri or cycling race is at least 95% white. Why are you surprised?

Cycling at the pro tour level seems to be pretty white. But as others have said, locally at the weekend group ride level there is more diversity.

And winter sports and golf, both at the pro and local amateur level are whiter then cycling.

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"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.

See my post above, I can't comment on Tri as I dont do Tri but in regards to cycling, where I live this is clearly NOT the case.
The diversity of the population is very much reflected at the races (pun maybe intended).

It probably is one of the whitest sports and I'm sure racism, or at least not being particularly inclusive is part of it, but race and socioeconomic class go hand in hand (a topic for another time that includes lots and lots of racism). It's the whitest because it's super expensive (equipment, travel, coaching, etc.) and, statistically speaking, minorities are more likely to be lower on the economic totem pole than white people are.

.

So the countless numbers of posts I have made highlighting the sports of triathlon and cycling in Asia,Africa and Latin America countries were false? There is a big wide world outside the USA .

So you posed the question but what do you want us white people to do, should we start eliminating ourselves from this planet as it seems we can't turn the page of anything without being blamed for something that most of us have no control over today, paying for the sins of people hundreds of years ago, to present day.

For you there is no issue. For me there is.

Ah the pity party!

I don't know why that's relevant to this particular discussion. But 25 Americans and 8 Canucks.

It was sarcasm. He's making a joke about curling. (which I think is awesome)

Yeah, sorry I figured that out right after I posted that. Kind of had an a-ha moment there after the fact!

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Raf
http://www.shutuplegs.org

Anyone that wants to ride a bike in America... pretty much can do just that if they want to if they have the means to buy one. There are some outliers but cycling just isn't that big of a thing and definitely not a thing in urban neighborhoods. I grew up in those sorts of places and when we were a little better off I had a bmx type bike... but it was to ride to places like the baskeball court... team sports were king and who knew people raced on bikes? When I was younger we didn't even have a car and walked everywhere... good times.

The problem is class. It's an expensive sport. I can't see any proof that Cycling has discriminated against anyone. Are there minorities who have been told they are not allowed to race at certain events or made to feel unwelcome when joining a club? If so I am 100% willing to change my opinion. When discrimination doesn't affect you, you are less likely to be aware of it, so feel free to let me know if I am missing something.

I like I am sure most other people here want Cycling/Triathlon to have more Minorities (and Women for that matter) racing. The more it grows, the more races there are, the more Cycling infrastructure there is etc. There's no reason not to want to be as inclusive as possible, but just calling everything racist without backing it up with any meaningful proof, helps nobody.

I understand your post, but l was more posting the linked article, as the rider's perspective (and question) was interesting.

I don't think anyone is blaming today's white people for the sins of people hundreds of years ago.

More accurately, is that white people (at least those in the usa) are profoundly benefiting right now and today from the sins of people hundreds of years ago (and from the sins of people 50 years ago and 25 years ago and 5 years ago).

And THAT is the part that many white people completely fail to comprehend.

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You're kidding, right?

Did you know that the League of American Wheelmen voted to ban black Americans from their ranks, and that this clause was only officially rescinded in the 1990s?

Read this:
https://ushistoryscene.com/...cle/early-bicycling/

Or, way better, read the fascinating and sobering book, "The World's Fastest Man" and discover that unfortunately racism and cycling have been intertwined since the very beginning.
https://www.npr.org/...e-worlds-fastest-man

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I had no idea about this (I'm not American, so not sure if this is common knowledge or not in the US).

This makes the original article look pretty amateurish as it was about racism in Cycling, yet had no convincing evidence of this was given.

The article in the OP was simply a very brief interview with the first professional female black cyclist, nothing more than that.

But about racism and cycling, read and learn. Not everything that you will learn will be delightful, but knowledge is power.

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Is Basketball or Football the Blackest sport on earth?

This is a ridiculous.

All of the different types of stores that sell bikes from local bike shops, walmart, play it again sports, goodwill are open to sell to all people. If folks are interested they will ride, if they are not they won’t. No store or race is closed to a particular group of people. If it seems to cost to much... save your money.

I would like a Ferrari and a private jet to fly to a private island I own, but it’s too expensive for me and my socioeconomic condition at this time... Maybe I should protest and complain its unfair and I should get these.

What about professional ping pong.. is that the most racially divided sport?

The article is titled 'Is Cycling the whitest sport on Earth', mentions how there are so few black pro cyclists, talks about BLM, the lack of black board members & how UCI didn't act quick enough to denounce racism, but the article is not about racism? With all of that mentioned I would think it's pretty important to talk about the history of racism in Cycling and why there are so few black riders.

Black players out number any other race in the NBA. We need to look a this lack of diversity in player race in the NBA.

The vast majority of the biggest contracts in the NBA go to Black players, this is unfair.
The biggest shoe contracts go to Black Players, this is unfair.
The Players make more than coaches.

We need more opportunity and for Hispanic players. This is a systemic issue of race favoritism. Something must be done!

Thanks. Actually more than I was expecting. Looks like UCI puts the number of American riders at 20 and directors at two (not a gotcha, just didn't know where to look before). That means the pro peloton is 3.7% American. Hard to argue that we get much say in the direction of the sport at the World Tour level.

The only reason I see that is because the article largely discussed the pro ranks. If we are discussing local riding, then it's a different discussion. Of course, I can't find enough local riders of any race so I'm desperate to get all I can riding so I have some company.

There it is.... I think that DarkSpeedWorks said it best:

However unironically we SHOULD be protesting against the top earners in this nation because they account for the vast majority of the wealth of the entire planet. The average wage or salary for people in the low and lower middle class have not grown proportional to the earnings of top companies. The rich get richer and pay off the government while we are "content" with whatever trickles down. To me the real issue is class, as it feeds the inequalities that we see with races here in the USA

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swim.bike.run.soccer

Come visit asia or africa and you will find that cycling is global and favors no race for transportation, exercise, sport, gambling, and fun. But bicycle racing historically started in Europe and that is where it remains most popular.

I'm a white guy living in Taiwan. I can assure you that cycling is not very white here.

Anwer to the question "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" is: Yes. Well, in places where mostly white people live. Like in europe where i live.

I imagine something similar for african and asian countries. Traveling in china i encountered the national chinese basketball team. They were all really tall chinese guys. Go figure :) I guess in the US where population is much more diverse this is different and more of an issue is made out of this. I can understand that.

What I do see here aswell is that people with a non-european background are more drawn to other sports. These are not nessecarily cheaper sports though, i think it might be more a culture thing.

What i don't get though is that people on here keep saying that cycling and triathlon are expensive. Is it really that expensive for you guys? In my tri club i train with people from all walks of life. My tri club subscription (12€/month) includes access to a running track and 3 pools, cycling and open water swimming and together with my license it's cheaper then the subscription to a gym (€45/month) that i had before. It's also cheaper then most team sports. And there are plenty reasonably priced new or used road bikes available.

Exactly, damn near every one in asia owns a bike and uses it daily for much more than sport. Bikes are critical means of transportation here and ebikes are trucks for the elderly. The idea that the major stage races are all in European mountainous countries says little about where the rubber actually meets the road in the cycling world.

If the track sprinters want to earn big money they go racing in Japan with the Asians.

.

Yep.same in Thailand..Here is an video from 2015 where the then Prince of Thailand (now King) leads 90,000 cyclists for a ride in Bangkok for the annual Bike for Dad Day. That day over half a million cyclists rode in different cities and towns to honour the King. One of the current Princesses is a cyclist and triathlete and is the Patron of the UCI Tour of Thailand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoVfdfoEqGE

The official music video for the Bike for Dad Day. Gotta love Thailand!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeQY8jVMRD4

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Here is the ad for the new Gran Fondo in Vietnam...Not much whiteness going on there either..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDnm-0kLdCI
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A history of the Malaysian National Cycling Federation..

"Cycling is now considered one of the core sports in Malaysia"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_dkVr3nuNY
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..and as the original article that started this thread was written by a woman of African heritage...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKmzGGZ5XE4


Now please someone tell me how cycling is the whitest sport on earth!

Seriously...this is what can be frustrating...it’s the broad painting with a brush that reeks of hypocrisy...

I am white, neither of my parents went to college. There was no land, real estate owned, passed down...no lessons of saving money, etc...my dad worked as much as possible growing up...took all the overtime he could get...just to give us a better opportunity than he had...I have done the same for my family...

Please give me some specifics of the profound benefits I received from the sins of whomever...

Sure.

Tell me more about you and your parents. What was their nationality(s), where were they from and where were your grandparents from? Where did you all live, what kind of housing and location? What did your parents and grandparents do for a living exactly? With no lessons passed on, were your parents really bad parents, or what are you implying with that? Anybody attend college? Where and what degree(s)? Where exactly do you live now? What is your job?

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Yup, lot of typical privileged tone deaf replies I would expect: “the ratio is such so leadership naturally follows”.

Here’s what you do:
- get diverse leadership
-allow that diverse leadership to drive the existing high school MTB programs into lower income neighborhood schools of color
-expand that program to maybe include road or cross
-get in talks with HBC’s to follow the leadership of St Augs in Raleigh

How pitiful that even after that announcement I only saw one or two local clubs post up info about that St Augs effort despite it being across the street. But the Lance 30:30 interview made the rounds!

Local clubs should have been reaching out for support! I’d love to invite that team to some of our team hammer rides or other rides. Expand community.

In the US, if you're not a white man or woman and have dark skin, most of us don't feel we have the same privileges on the road, and feel less safe than cycling in many other countries. I believe this keeps many minorities away from this sport even when we have economic access. Police likely won't be on our side for most things, so we literally have higher risk while out on the road which is worse than just being out jogging.

I shared a story about riding my race equipped Cervelo P3 with Bonetrager wheels in Walmer a township outside of Port Elizabeth South Africa. I felt completely safe, safer than many places in the US. My white South African friends thought I was crazy, but it was the opposite scenario going through Walmer in South Africa than a mainly white populated suburb in the US.

So its situational for sure and depends on where you are riding. If you are a white cyclist in India or Nigeria, you're going to stick out too the question is if your difference gets in the way or real or perceived safety doing the sport and that becoming a barrier to doing it.

Even when South Africa had apartheid there would of been white people who struggled. But it would still be absolutely true that white people had privilege. There will be more than one unfairness and inequality in a society and we should recognise and address them all. Talking about one doesn't mean we don't care about others.

The language is challenging but I'd urge anyone not to be defensive and to listen. The thing about privilege is that it may be something you take for granted when you have it.

Something as simple as being able to eat your dinner in peace at a high-end restaurant with your wife and friends without another patron phoning the police–because you looked "suspicious"–with the subsequent interruption to speak with four officers of the law.

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My YouTubes

Wait...now you actually need to know real facts about someone before you judge them by their skin color???

Ridiculous...

And to the other reply quoting me...I am not naive enough to think everyone is dealt an equal hand...and I am more than willing to listen...if given a chance for fair debate...I have had many discussions about this recently, with all the recent events. I played basketball to pay my way through college...where I was definitely in the minority. So most of my best friends from college don’t look like me...including my college roommate...who is the closest thing I have to a brother...

And Lai, going to a high end restaurant was not a foundational privelage I was born with that gave me a head start...Dairy Queen was where it was at for me and my family 🙂

Key stroke error...now updated...

Well, perhaps not getting shot in HS for walking home in a hoodie while black might be considered something helpful.

As a generality, being non black is an enormous advantage for all non black americans. Being white is an even bigger advantage. So hence the 'white privilege' term.

But if you want specifics how this certainly and definitely applies to YOU (assuming that you are non black of course), then yes l need specifics to give specifics about your life.

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It definitely would...but The odds of that happening are far less than other things that no one wants to address...

Can you be more specific? If there are things that no one wants to address, please address them.

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Geez dude...don’t play dumb...incarcerations, crap public education, the percentage of children born without fathers, and more people died from shootings last weekend in Chicago than any number of people walking home in hoodies you can name without researching...

Let’s discuss Robert Johnson’s idea to spend 14 trillion in reparations over 30 years...does everyone really feel like it would all be square 30 years from now??? Would $350,000 really be the answer to everyone receiving that? Is that going to make their lives better in 30 years? My guess is it would help, but there would be plenty of people that would not take advantage of it...

Peace,

If driving anywhere by car is, say, a hundred times more dangerous than getting there by commercial air, do we first have to have near zero auto accidents before we can start working on further improving aviation safety?

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Since the OP referenced professional sports, I thought the context was professional cycling as, under the umbrella of the international governing body for pro cycling, the UCI.

Picking your three countries, E.g. there are no UCI-registered World Tour teams from Thailand, Malaysia, or Vietnam. Expanding that to domestic teams (of which there are 262), only Thailand is included has two teams (men's and women's).

Maybe all the non-euro countries just don't like the UCI and prefer their own competitions. But I thought the context here was UCI-grade competitive sport.

This!!

Exactly why we can have no beneficial discussions...just forget it...I’ll remove myself from your safe bubble...

I don't think it's as easy to hand-wave away as "class". Euro pro cycling is filled with riders who came from the "working class." This isn't like elite rowing, where Oxford, Harvard, et al, feed the ranks of the elite.

You seem very sensitive to discussion of "racism," which I can understand. It's an emotional topic. Like you said the article in the OP was about "racism in cycling" yet the word only occurred once in the article, and it was more about the experience of the one rider.

I agree that true, overt racism is probably not the biggest roadblock. It's more just cultural dominance of the euro countries in pro competitive cycling. Which makes it hard to crack. (Just like it would be hard for most countries to field an American-style football team that could compete with a U.S. all-star team). But that cultural dominance exists even in countries that have lots of non-white people. Like France. Or the U.S.

I just think in the context of historical trajectory, the sport could benefit. Soccer exploded in popularity when it went from an elite sport for wealthy Englishmen to a sport for anyone. Same with track and field (and distance running). And, well, almost every popular sport now was lily-white at some point. Makes some sense since institutionalized sports originated from Western culture. But those that spread to other cultures improved (and got a lot more money).

It's worth talking about how to open up cycling. No accusations of hard-core racism. But avoiding the subject altogether because it's uncomfortable is a form of quiet racism.

Never said it was. I just gave you an example per your inquiry.

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My YouTubes

OK, let's discuss it.

For most Black Americans living in the US today:
-white people forcibly removed their ancestors from Africa and brought them here on slave ships
-white people kept their great-great-grandparents in barbaric conditions in slavery
-white people instituted and enforced Jim Crow laws after we fought a war about whether they should get to be considered people or not
-white people kept their great-grandparents in low-income neighborhoods through redlining
-white people kept their grandparents legally segregated into the 1960s (officially) and to the present (unofficially)*
-white people have continued to discriminate against their parents and them through the mechanisms of banking, housing associations, public school funding, the War on Drugs, mandatory minimum sentencing, racial profiling, aggressive policing, etc.

All because of the color of their skin.

If I was one of them, I'd want some reparations too. $14 trillion might be a good start.

*Almost all the small Midwest (overwhelmingly white) towns around where I live had "sundown laws" well into the 1980s. The 1980s! And I live in ILLINOIS.

Exactly.

And getting a mortgage today in Chicago if you're white? Well, no worries, just tell us how much $ you need?
(I only say chicago because that is where I live)

And getting a mortgage today in Chicago if you're black? You can forget it !

(Fyi, this assertion is supported by very recent evidence. Yes, we are talking about you, JP Morgan Chase ... )

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Umm, what about elite marathon running?

Look at the title of the thread. That is what it is all about,headlines that make sweeping generalizations. The same stupid shit happened when there were headlines about "triathlon" being a racist sport. When you have people making sweeping statements about "our sport" or "the sport of" that means all of it. When people ask how to make change it is always to go to the grass roots and that is exactly what I did. If you can't take my FOUR ,not three examples and think that they would also apply across the planet then it is you who are trying to stick to one narrative and disregard evidence to the contrary. Clearly you didn't watch the fourth video nor the other video I posted in another post about African cycling teams with athletes who do race in the UCI events.
"Cycling" is not the whitest sport on earth and anyone who can't see the huge diversity across the planet is living a very insular life.

I would say skiing, equestrian and generally motorsports

Umm, what about elite marathon running?

Thankyou, someone needed to say it.

Would give your spot at DK to a person of color?

Yes, you bet.

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Anyone who has ever ridden a bike and marvelled at what the world on two wheels can be then watch this movie..

(The official trailer)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvjeerpxuT4


The Tour Du Rwanda and the hope that Kigali can host the 2025 UCI Cycling Worlds..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxnZuotSSc8

The UCI Level 2.1 Tour Du Rwanda 2020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-vnx7Qzyck

The UCI level 2.1 La Tropicale Amissa Bongo (Gabon) 2020 In French...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inrsO_Ei2dM

Another of the Olympic Channels' Africa cycling videos ( DR Congo)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62J6RP3mCT4

How this has devolved from Cycling to slavery and reparations.
These are definitely very heavy and legitimate topics.

However to answer the original question, is Cycling the whitest sport, the answer is an unequivocal no, the title is just click bate.

The British media is currently fueling a completely unnecessarily and over dramatized battle over cycling. Cycling the UK gained popularity following years of Olympic success and the the media has been aggressively to capitalize on this by creating a fabricated 'cultural war on cycling.' This article is from the telegraph which is a very much a guilty party here i.e. (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/...louts-on-wheels.html) and switching the emphasis to race is just a way to keep adding fuel to the fire. So the information in the article needs to be viewed in light of the agenda behind why it was written (to sell papers by stirring controversy).


I completely agree that it is absurd to extrapolate that to the 'Sport of Cycling.' I would counter that cycling ranks as one of the most diverse sports on the planet due to its wide spread global popularity. Very few sports can claim the equivalence of the Tour de France, Tour of Eritrea, Tour Colombia, Tour Down Under, Tour on Qinghai Lake, etc. My wife is into rhythmic gymnastics and trampolining (god help her) which are both in the Olympics and are preposterously white and elitist relative to cycling. However this only underscores that the fact that ~70% of the other cyclist commuters I see here in the North-east of England are white males 25-50 is cultural problem that needs to be addressed. Cycling has a broader appeal which is very clear on a global level but locally we have an exclusion/access problem.

I will give my 2020 100 entry to a person of color. If you know someone interested, pm me their info and I’ll connect with the event directors to see if it can be transferred.

They may have wanted to look around a little, before they said it that way
ETA: Sorry, they DID say "African-American" and Ceylin is Dominican with Dutch nationality



https://www.bicycling.com/...o-womens-cyclocross/

Unless they're only talking Pro Tour ROAD Cycling

https://www.bicycling.com/...clists-on-instagram/

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

In the US (the rider interviewed is an american), I think that there is a specific focus on African Americans because (1) the rider interviewed is African American and because (2) African Americans were enslaved for several hundred years and because (3), even compared to other minorities in the usa, to this day African Americans experience the most severe and widespread racism (see, George Floyd et al.)

Finally, in ANY country in ANY place in the world, out of billions and people and many millions of cyclists, how many full-time professional black cyclists are there? Anyone have an idea? I imagine that there are not many. And full time professional women? Even less.

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Thanks, that was my paraphrasing error. Now corrected.

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While not American, there is already at least one female pro cyclist of African descent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teniel_Campbell

And I am also surprised that no one has already mentioned it, but there has got to be at least 20 (likely more) Colombian cyclist in the pro tour.

I hear you, it was mentioned above.

But how many actually black riders of either gender in the full time pro road ranks ?

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Equestrian? If anything, white horses are under represented.

But you haven't.

Or would you give up your Kona slot as well? My guess is no. After busting your ass for years and months and days and hours, enduring all that it takes to reach Kona, you'd be hard-pressed to give away your slot. Not because you are a racist but because wanting, working for and earning something is worth so much more than having it given to you.

Some people love to tell others how to live but when the rubber hits the road, they often aren't willing to make sacrifices themselves.

My daughter and her friends are on the protest lines in Seattle. Each one attended an elite east coast school and not a one of them gave their slot in college to an underprivileged person - nor did they ask to.

The minute cycling, triathlon and swimming start paying as well as the major leagues do, you will see more diversity. My older kid went through 7 years of being on a good swim team here in LA - there were black kids on it, good enough swimmers for a div1 level even, but all from the wealthy families, who simply used it as a way to keep their kids focused on getting into college. Same deal was in figure skating before, and in competitive dancing as well... If you're a poorer black family and your kid shows some promise in say baseball and cycling - it's a no brainer to push them into the former, since the potential payout is so much larger. And when you're poor, opportunities are valued very differently....

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Cycling pays pretty damn well in Europe ... still very few black athletes.

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I disagree. The bulk of competitive sports isn't professional, and not many choices are aren't overt economic optimization decisions like that.

Good call - I was just going to point about Alvarado.

In any case she is going road also - going to be on a road team with CX stars Worst and Cant. (The not-motivational-sounding duo).

Those 3 should have exciting to watch to see if they can take it to the pure roadies.

I disagree with this whole zero-sum-game slant you're taking on things.

Have not gone to race Kona or to the DK. But, years ago for college, l did get redirected to a different campus of the University of Calif system likely because likely affirmative action limited white students at my campus of choice. Was totally good with it even though it had a lot bigger effect on my life than Kona or the DK ...

On the other hand, it had a lot smaller effect on my life than being intensely discriminated against since the moment of birth (if l was black) ...

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No need to quote.

In Europe, why are there not more black pro cyclists, say, as many there are in Euro football (soccer for americans) ?

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Because being a professional footballer starts when you are a kid(for some under contract) Because as kids they were not interested in cycling but ran around with a football under their arm all day kicking it in the streets with their mates pretending they were playing for Brazil in the World Cup.

I am from Hong Kong and that is exactly what I did,all day,every day. I even got to meet Pele.

Seems it may be time to stop trying to have a rational conversation?
Add to the fact having worked in Tanzania for four years the roads in Africa are majority dirt. I rode from Nairobi Kenya to Dar Es Salaam Tanzania over several weeks and every other day from work lots of people riding brand new Chinese made bikes same design as pre WW2 as transport or a makeshift seat on the back as a taxi. The place is poor and kids make soccer balls out of plastic bags because they can’t afford balls, live in mud huts with a small crop of maize and a cow if they are a rich family let alone buy a bike. The talent pool to choose from isn’t great.
There is money in football, it’s the international game like baseball is to the US so African interest is high, locals flock to games, tournaments readily, easily organised and competition is high so for talent to make it out isn’t so hard as there will be a lot of scouts. At the World Cup there HAS TO BE several African nations so talent will be spotted on the biggest stage in the world (if it hasn’t already) and it will Make it to Europe.
Swimming you need a pool, coaches and interest in the sport so why aren’t there more African swimmers? Is this racist? Running you need a set of shoes if you are lucky to get started, interest in the sport, a talent pool and what do you know Africa dominates the sport. I’ve been following the post and the whole cycling is a racist sport I am finding somewhat tiresome.
Being Australian I remember watching Eric the Eel at the 2000 Sydney Olympic games read his story and watch the video pretty much sums up why some African sports are misrepresented.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Moussambani
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQbKCHsRIyk

About Africa, l understand. That is not rocket science.

But, in Europe, why so very very very few full time professional black road racers? Ones raised in Europe or anywhere. Because there are LOTS of poor working class white euro riders that manage to somehow get a bike and ride to the top, or near the top. But not so with black riders in Europe even though pro rider pay is good. Why? Serious question.

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Look at the soccer or basketball leagues in Europe. The black athletes are more than adequately represented. That's because there are thousands of teams that pay quite well, not mentions offer chances to get paid in the US or Russia. Cycling has how many major teams that pay maybe $50-60k a year to everyone but the 2-3 top dogs? Of course there are some historical reasons that are holding them back too (ie no black Chris Froome, etc), and that might also be a major factor...

Again, once the socioeconomic status of most black people improves, you will see them better represented in sports that require a larger upfront investment and a potentially smaller payoff.

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Because most Africans there will be migrants coming from a football fanatic family no doubt wanting to be the next football star and the way they make friends and community is through a common sport. Cycling is foreign to them. Meanwhile their neighbours in France, Spain, Italy, Belgium non migrants are generations of cycling fanatics. That’s not rocket science.

There's a correlation there, not necessarily a causation.

As I commented earlier, I think you're seeking the wrong causation assuming everything comes down to naked economic opportunism.

Kids play because it's fun, mostly. Not because their parents have made a cold calculation about what might have the best ROI 15 years later. Soccer and basketball are culturally dominant ways to have fun (in the U.S. too). It's rare to see black kids racing bikes in organized bike races for fun. At least in the U.S. For a variety of reasons, probably. You're kind of weird if you're racing bikes. That's the story that the Williams bros. in the U.S. tell - they're kind of nerds (even though they don't look like it).

Edit: I agree completely with Shambolic above. Every black (and white) kid knows the soccer heroes. Knowledge of cycling heroes tend to be isolated to much smaller communities. It's just foreign.

Of course in euro football(soccer), black athletes are well represented (l am not as familiar with euro basketball). But, again, many many very low income white athletes manage to do very well in professional euro cycling. But not so for black athletes ...

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But many many blacks are UK and European natives, what about them?

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Maybe. I'd still like to revisit this argument a few years later once we have a successful black cycling star or 2. You are likely onto something. Being socially acceptable is a big deal for teenagers.

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i cant imagine being so bored that I have to think about the race of athletes and wondering this dumb mess

The sport isn’t in their DNA so to speak so the volume of kids taking up the sport just isn’t there. Kids want to have fun in groups and their idols will be football players. Football is a way bigger sport in Europe than cycling and every kid will be playing football in school. Why is there not more native Americans in Swimming?

Really that many Americans? I'm surprised. Did you find a list or count them yourself?

A little of both. If you go to the UCI Teams page and then to the "Members" tab and then select the U.S. and "WorldTeams" (and then Women's WorldTeams to add the women after), you get a list of coaches and riders. Then you have to count a bit to get rid of the coaches. Which is pretty easy since it's like two - Vaughters and one dude at CCC. That surprised me, thought there'd be more American staff.

The low # of American women (4) surprised me at first, then realized how many of the best American women (e.g. Chloe Dygert, Lauren Stephens, Megan Jastrab) are all on "domestic" teams even though they race internationally.

Not sure what that means.

This l follow 100%, except cycing IS a pretty big spectator sport in Europe (well, on non-COVID years at least ... ). But, more to the point, l don't understand how any of this stuff above applies to poor working class black European kids but not equally so to poor working class white European kids ... which brings me back to: if poor whites can make it to the pro ranks, why not the same (approx proportional to the local populations, of course) for poor blacks? 5+5 pro black riders for an entire continent of nearly 750 million people seems very very odd, like perhaps there are other forces at work.

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Not sure where you are from, but the USA has been historically downright OBSESSED with race, and l am talking about the white people.

Heck, that is why the League of American Wheelmen made it a point to exclude colored bike riders from their membership. And that is why countless organizations, sports clubs, YMCAs, gymnasiums, athletic clubs, sport governing bodies, swim clubs, golf clubs, country clubs, and the list goes on and on and on, clearly got so "bored" that they had the time and inclination to make 10,000 rules to prevent African Americans for joining and participating in their activities. Yup, Americans hve clearly been very very bored ...

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You didn’t explain to me why there isn’t more native Americans in international competitive swimming?

I hate these things. Especially with the way the writers try to paint the sport as something that it isn't. So it states that there are no black people on the Management council of the UCI. They're attempting to say it is all white. It is not.

2 Vice Presidents of the three, are of an ethnic background that is non-white. Three Council Members are of an ethnic background that is non-white. So of the 18 Members of the Management council, FIVE, are of an ethnic background that is non-white.

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I get your frustration and I felt the same way when people started the narrative that "Triathlon" is a racist sport..I know a bunch of the people in this photo very well and know the work they have put in over two decades to develop the sport of triathlon in Asia only to have a bunch of SJW's try to tell me that triathlon has no diversity..Some of these people double up as members of their respective countries cycling federations as well.

The Asian Triathlon Confederation Congress 2019.( ITU President Marisol Casado front and centre)
https://www.triathlon.org/...five_ioc_commissions

In my mind a core piece of the picture is easy to understand but the solution is harder to address.

When I ride with women the amount of totally unprovoked harassment from drivers roughly doubles. My experience with training with black athletes is that this harassment goes up again by another 1.5-2 times. If I had to deal with 4 times as much aggressive BS on the road I would leave the sport and so its no surprise to me (in the UK and US) the sport looks very white and very male.


Part of the solution is to reduce road harassment and increase road respect in general. This will benefit everyone but doesn't address the racist and sexist element of the harassment. This is a societal issue that bleeds into the sport and I don't think there is a solution without big changes to societal as a whole.

At least here in Germany overall there are not many blacks. In my cycling club one of 200 members is black, more members with Turkish and eastern European heritage, just like the population mix in Germany.

In professional soccer and basketball blacks are overrepresented compared to the German mix. One reason may be players from the US and Africa, but even when counting only native Germans, I think blacks are overrepresented in these sports.

That's why they make a point of saying "Verst" and "Kont"

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Well said. Of course this is a societal issue and not only a triathlon or cycling specific issue.

But before any solutions can be implemented, people have to at least acknowledge that problems exist. And that it is not easy for many ...

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Point to me these rules today. Show me one rule in any of those orgs that exclude race today right now as we speak.

Exactly. Because rules and discrimination and worse in the distant and recent past have zero affect on people today. And we all know that today African Americans are all treated wonderfully by those in authority and not in authority at all governmental and non-governmental organizations. Problem solved. Time to move on.

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You proved my point. Anything else you want to create out of thin air and complain about Let’s address why there are no 6 foot tall women from the Maldives in the sport too or maybe why there isn’t more insert this group here. I’m in the minority category and the last thing I concern myself with is the race of the athletes I compete against. I have bigger issues to worry about

Roger.

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Seems like it is pretty high on your list since you're posting multiple times on the topic. That or you already have handled all the "bigger" issues.

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The first question shouldn't be why is it white, but instead, is it "Inclusive." We tend to shift every conversation towards black and white or black vs. white, when the conversation should be about diversity as a whole which entails a great deal more than simply black vs. white. There is no question that black and white is used as a springboard towards resentment and divisiveness and because of the exclusion and barriers put in place in the past and some of which still exist. But if you are purely comparing black vs. white, then you are not comparing diversity within a category or subject matter and then can't compare the makeup of that subject matter (sport) as a whole. What should be asked in the context of diversity is does the subject (sport) reflect the makeup of that community? Is that on a local level, jurisdiction, country, the sport as a whole or just the professional ranks? If you are comparing within the US and look at the US population as a whole, 76% are white, 13% are black or African american and 18% are Hispanic or Latino. If you are looking at the diversity within cycling in comparison to the population as whole then the ideal makeup of diversity within cycling should reflect those numbers. But for some we have shifted the focus to an equal makeup of the category vs. a diverse distribution. If there is no diversity whatsoever then we should be questioning why and first look at if it is inclusive and what are the barriers to entry and how to overcome them. The arguments of Basketball fail just as most other sports if we look at them in the same context. Is there diversity? Yes, but the makeup reflects a higher number of black or African american's, but is it inclusive? Do the behaviors and social norms of entry into the sport and continued participation, opportunity for growth and development reflect acceptance of any racial group? If you believe that it isn't inclusive then what are the barriers and do they exclude or favor one racial group over another?

Understanding we need to ensure that the barriers are eliminated but more importantly aren't created to the point of exclusion of any race and that it is inclusive for not just race but also gender. We need to shift the mindset and the argument away from black and white or more importantly black vs white somehow, someway.

Very well said.

As you describe, in the usa, even though there are a lot of African Americans playing at this level, I think that there could be a lot more true diversity in US professional sports.

So, yes, diversity is important. But since African Americans have historically been singled out for the most vicious and extended racism and terror over their whole existence in the usa, I think that the condition of African Americans is special even compared to the many other ethnic groups in america. Other ethnic groups have been treated badly here, but the way African Americans are and have been treated is much much worse, as measured pretty much on any scale.

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Exactly it's not rocket science but to some that just want to play the race card on anything you don't see 'diversity'.... and by that they really mean black people... it appears to be rocket science. By and large cycling isn't a racist thing from my perspective. I grew up in poor predominately minority neighborhoods in the US and cycling wasn't on anyone's list or something we even knew about.

I cycle today and a few from the hood do as well... it was the big three for us though... basketball, football and baseball. I see and feel no limiters to cycling outside of the cost and desire to do so.

All three examples are zero-sum games: DK, Kona and elite college admissions. All three have limited fields and are based on quantifiable standards (college is a little more subjective).

If you assert the argument that white privilege prevents people of color from attending elite colleges, or competing in a bike race (sport) then eschewing the privilege and foregoing your spot in favor of offering opportunity to those same people is a direct solution to the problem of privilege.

My point is that people who tell us that we must do it never do it themselves.

Oddly, one of the sports held in greatest disdain by city dwellers is among the most diverse. Rodeo and bull riding are both extremely diverse and anglos probably make up less than half of participants. (Yet, the uninitiated still call them redneck sports! Ignorance is a hard thing to overcome.)

You bet, that is indeed a helpful (but by no means all encompassing) partial solution.

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I disagree with your assertion that it's either a direct solution to the problem, and I don't have any evidence one way or the other to consider your claim that "people who tells us what we must do it never do it themselves."

Or idea of individual acts of "charity" to solve an issue isn't one that I've heard put forward seriously.

I repeat that thinking of it as a zero-sum game isn't a great idea - doing so is usually someone trying to find "victimhood."

Edit: For example, see this recent interview of Justin Williams. Nothing about asking white people to give up entries, right? Just about inspiring young athletes, and giving them an opportunity to see how fun it can be. We don't need to seek out "victims" to make that happen.

I learned that one of the popular celebrations of Juneteenth in the West was the rodeo, and that 1/3 of all cowboys were African-American

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Well, ... at least herniated discs are an equal opportunity injury ...

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We can't have beneficial discussions because both the right and left have gone absolutely bat shit crazy. If you listen to the left, you'd think every problem in the black community is caused by white people. If you listen to the right, you'd think every problem in the black community is caused by black people. The truth lies somewhere in the middle, but we'll never make any progress because each side is more concerned with trying to make the opposing side look bad than they are with finding solutions.

Couldn’t agree more...Thank you for doing a much better job at posting than I did... 🙂

I gave up trying to have a logical argument. Apparently I just need to accept I’m racist and the European cycling community is racist. It takes time like you to change what is considered normal sport with your family and friends and maybe takes several generations when your kids or kids kids even become cycling fanatics and have the competitive drive to make it to the big leagues. Lewis Hamilton is F1 world champion and his dad was a racing fanatic. I’d say that is a whiter sport than cycling. Funny he still hasn’t answered my question why there isn’t more native Americans in world level competitive swimming?

I think that is an unlikely model. It's much more likely that the distribution would be bell curve like. The trouble with forum discussion is the most extreme positions tend to get attention because they are the easiest to argue with. I do it myself. But it's lazy thinking to assume those extremes are representative of the majority of one side.

I'd also say it's a worrying statement to say the truth is somewhere in the middle in the context of what you're discussing. If you really look at this from a historical aspect I don't see how you can say that. If you want to discuss it then try and rephrase it and make it less of an equivalence.

Logic has no place with false narratives and our social justice warriors of present.

Read this book and then get back to me about false narratives:

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I hope you are not saying that Europe is not rascist?

Because Europe and the USA are profoundly racist, it is just a fact of life. Saying otherwise is living in a fantasy world and denying gravity exists, or saying the earth is flat. And of course sport (pretty much all sport, including cycling and triathlon) exists in these worlds. So of course sport reflects the values of the local society, reflecting both the good values and the toxic ones. Its kinda crazy that some people here think that this an odd or controversial idea ... but such is life ...

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You're proving my point... this was written about a cyclist in a whole other time that persereved in the face of very blatant racism in the sport. This wasn't long after actual slavery and the Civil War, which was a much different time. The year is 2020... not 1890. To repeat myself... logic and false narratives.

Ah, so racism in sport and cycling has disappeared? Serious question.

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You have asked this question again and again throughout this thread and again and again you do not want to accept anything that doesn't fit your specific narrative.There is varying degrees of racism in every society on the planet but it is far less accepted than it was years ago and each generation sees more diversity across the board in every aspect of society.Guess what,Asia is a totally racist region of the world as is Latin America and Africa. Racism isn't the exclusive domain of white people.

You can keep pretending that things are the same as they were in the first three quarters of the last century but they aren't. Why do you also only discuss only one section of the global cycling or sporting community and base the situation of entire global sporting community on your view of that group ?

serious answer, of course not.

However I dont think cycling is the whitest sport on earth and I dont think it's the fault of white or European cyclist either. Pro sports are hard, cycling probably being one of the toughest with little reward but maybe only for a few. Hell I'd say as a sport it probably does not appeal to many white kids at least aspiring to a pro level. I dont think I have ever met a kid that said he wanted to be a pro cyclist regardless of race. While kids wanting to be in the NFL, MLB, NBA etc .. dime a dozen.

Well, we are in agreement.

I just discussed sports that l have some familiarity in, which is the 3 sports of triathlon.

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Makes sense.

I don't literally think that cycling is literally the whitest sport, that was just the title of the article l linked.

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ThailandUltras is right.

Asia is racist, especially to other asians. Africa is extremely racist against asians (especially Chinese) Europe and the USA are not special in this case.

Totally agree, and l never asserted otherwise. I just focused on Europe and the USA because l have more 1st hand knowledge of those countries and cultures (generally).

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No I just gave up trying to have a logical argument with you... Go and burn down your neighbourhood if it makes you feel better.

Serious answer... racism in some aspects will be around until forever. Name anything and you'll find some element of racism if you dig or wait long enough. It's just part of life, there is no Eutopia where racism does not exist. Present cycling I don't see it as a 'thing'... there for sure but not a global sport wide thing that makes it a white sport based on racism. IMO/IME its a cultural thing with some economic ties in there. Golf was a very traditional 'white' sport that IMO was impacted greatly by Tiger Woods being a star. I have many more friends that play golf vs. ride a bike... none that do triathlon.

That said I don't belive in fighting for diversity... for diversity sake. Counting people and getting a count of skin color isn't something I'm interested in. Create an open environment and let the chips fall where they may.

Explain these teams racing in Europe at the highest level?

https://qhubeka.org/...-into-the-spotlight/

https://nttprocycling.com/

I am getting confused. You want to engage but then you don't want to engage but then you want to engage? What's up here?

As you might guess, l am not nor never claimed to be an expert on world sport. The article that l linked in the OP (did you read the article? -- it is very short) mentioned a tremendous lack of black riders in European professional cycling teams. Your links are very interesting, but are you saying the statistics mentioned in OP article are wrong?

I think l mentioned this earlier, but it bears repeating. Europe has a population of nearly 750 million people. That is A LOT of people, well over double the population of the United States. Not sure exactly how many African Europeans live in Europe and how many are immigrants and how many are native born, but l imagine that both numbers are a lot more than zero.

Anyway, out of all this, according to the claims of the article (the one linked in the OP), there are just 10 black professional road riders in Europe. Why exactly this is the case we can discuss forever and never know the answer.


Just 10 black pro riders.

Call me crazy, but to me that seems low.

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The whole African teams came to me after the fact when I remembered Cavendish racing for MTM Qhubeka an African based team trying to get more Africans on bikes. If you don’t want to listen then believe your own racist biased narrative. I don’t want to engage with you any more...

All good, but what does this have to do with the fact that in a continent of almost 3/4 of billion people (europe), there are just 10 pro black road riders?

By any measure, that is a very very very low number ... but somehow this is all because black Europeans don't like riding bicycles ... ?!?

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Hey, I did not read this entire thread, but there is also some level of self selection bias in terms of activities that new immigrants do when they arrive in a new country. You could also say there are zero cyclists of South Asian decent on the british Cycling team yet the English Cricket squad is filled with South Asian and Black players. How do we explain that. The German soccer team has many black players. The French soccer team is literally half black players.

If these societies were completely shutting out minorities from sport, there would be only white players on these national teams, but this is not the case. How come Dutch pro soccer has so many black players but no one on the Dutch speed skating team is black. We can say the same thing about the Canadian speed skating team. We have a lot of black players in track and soccer, but zero on our national speed skating team.

While sport barriers may exist, there is some amount of selection bias. How come there are so many South Asians in silicon valley doing tech jobs and so few South Asians doing pro sport in the USA. Its not that they are all bad athletes (if India can be world champions from time to time in cricket, they can play pro baseball if they choose to...exactly the same skills). So what about minority self selection bias. (for the record, my family is South Asian descent....I see almost none of us in cycling, triathlon, skiing, swimming anywhere in the western world, but we're all over Silicon Valley and Wall street....I can't get my ethnic group to get off their asses and do sport even though many could be fantastic athletes).

So its not all the fault of white guys holding us back.

I agree with pretty much all of this.

And, yes, as you said, barriers still exist.

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The story of Major Taylor is an interesting one. He was a black American cyclist in the late 1800s who became world champion in track-sprinting:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_Taylor

I'd never heard of him before until someone spoke about him at an academic seminar last year.

Yes, if you want to read a true-life adventure about an incredible athlete with some eye-popping details (racial and otherwise), I would highly recommend this outstanding book:

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If I understand correctly, he was the first international sports superstar

Imagine Muhammad Ali on wheels

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There's been movie talk for years now, but the funding has never quite come through.

I'm sure you can find racists in every European country but if racism is what is preventing non-whites from participating and making it to the highest levels of cycling it must be particular to the sport given that soccer teams have tons of non-whites. I would think in many countries disproportionately so.

Yes, exactly.

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I dont agree, I just dont think cycling at the highest levels is all that interesting to kids.(no matter the race)

It must be interesting to some kids, as there are pro cyclists.

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ok maybe it's not interesting to enough kids of color, but I'm not about to blame racism for all that. I dont know why you do other then not really being honest.

My only point is that something odd and interesting is going on ...

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nah what's interesting is I dont think you are getting as much traction in the Tri portion of the forum as you might have hoped for. Maybe stick it in the LR where it might be more friendly to your incorrect view of cycling as a sport.

Like Shambolic I no longer wish to go back and forth with you anymore on this.

You want traction?

Here is some traction. But you may want to buckle up.
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/...eryone-akim-aliu-nhl

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Water-polo

Exactly.... I think false narratives illustrated in this thread hold more people back than actual racism.

IME racism is a pretty equal opportunity thing today.

Honestly, I was gonna say curling

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

All disparate outcomes = racism

I found some more, uh ... 'traction'.

https://www.cnn.com/...nted-trnd/index.html

Racism in sport? Racism in cycling? What?! Impossible !

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People who think that cycling is the "whitest sport" have never been to South Korea or Colombia.

it's the same kind of people that think racism only exist in the USA. It's not worth listening to those ppl.

Well said. There is racism in the usa, but there is also lots of racism in Europe. Unfortunately, there is probably no country that is free of it.

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.
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There is no country free of it and anyone who says white people can't be the victims of racism have their heads firmly buried in only one narrative.You are fixated on that one narrative here.

Being born with white privilege is a heavy cross to bare...

...
...
Being abused and attacked multiple times for being "A white cunt" certainly is...

That is pretty sad. How were you attacked like this?

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..
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Spend enough time in northern Australia and it happens so often it becomes normal.I have lived in,worked in and travelled around Northern Queensland and central Queensland,NSW,Northern Territory and Western Australia over the last 30 years and it is part of life.Living in a mining town on Cape York in far north Queensland was the worst example of hatred not only against whites but between Abroginal communities themselves.Horrific stuff that you just can't talk about in todays society because nobody wants to recognise it.I was taken to hospital in Cairns one time after being attacked for no reason in downtown Cairns only then to be attacked again in the Emergency Room,for no other reason than being white.It was way worse in the '80s but it still happens and people are so concerned about being called racist that nobody wants to talk about it.

I could go on and on and on with examples of incidents that have happened to me,to my friends or to random people I have helped after they were attacked but again,mention any of this stuff now and you are a racist.The most recent was last year in Cairns during Ironman week.I checked in to my hotel on the esplanade on the same block I used to live on.Off I go around the corner to the IGA to buy food and it took one block for the old times to come back.There in the gutter in the middle of the day was an aboriginal guy out cold with blood coming out of his head.I immediately though " Oh shit here we go again" as I debated if I should help.Thing is,if you do try to help it is seen as getting into people business and you end up abused,or worse and that is what happened.As soon as I approached the guy to see if he was still alive the abuse from the apartment block on the street started and two aboriginal women came out and told me to "Fuck off you white cunt,he deserves to be there". I stood there for a few seconds as the second wave of abuse flew my way as more people came out of their ground floor flat and confronted me.I then just walked away from the whole scene.There was no point even trying to reason with them.I left that guy out cold while those people,hurled abuse at me instead of trying to help the poor bastard bleeding in the gutter.

The week before Challenge Cairns back in 2011 I was again on the esplanade where the run course is and a group of black guys from the local mission were,in broad daylight,in front of all the tourists,pissing on the public barbeques(right on the cooking surfaces) yelling "Get the fuck out of our country you white cunts!" to everyone standing around. You are not allowed to talk about it though and I am sure I will get shit right here for even mentioning all of this.

It is so normal that it hardly registers anymore and while not as violent the situation isn't much different in Asia. Hell,in a tweet in March the Health Minister of Thailand blamed the spread of Corona Virus on "Western tourists who are dirty and don't shower".(the term Farang is a derogatory term used to describe white people,much like Gaijin in Japan and Gweilo in Hong Kong)
https://coconuts.co/...lth-minister-tweets/

I had read you live in Hong Kong in other posts but I thought that must be Australia he is talking about...

You seem to be mostly referring to cultural backlash against colonial intrusion (though Thailand largely resisted) . I had some similar experiences backpacking in some remote parts of Hawaii, where apparently tourists aren't supposed to go. No one's going to call you a racist for talking about that. Racism begets racism - go figure. It'd be nice if those who lost the colonial battles would just "let it go" and get on with life. But sometimes they don't.

Though in this thread you do seem to have a hard time acknowledging that UCI-sanctioned pro cycling is lily white. Even if there are sub cultures of cycling in some places.

.
I lived in Hong Kong from 1963 to 1980 when half of my family moved into China and I moved to Australia.

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The topic of this thread is "Cycling" not pro cycling just as the diversity thread was about "Triathlon" and not pro triathlon. Cycling at the very highest level of the UCI is largely white,nobody is doubting that but the entire UCI racing series around the world isn't. As I pointed out the Olympic cycling program is well represented by non white nations so when we look at those two situations we can assume that if there are lots of non white cycling nations in the Olympics and not the UCI Pro Tour then the non white cycling nations haven't reached a talent level to have them compete at the very highest level of cycling competition. I gave a reason for that in my very first post on this thread.

Agree with you regarding the title of the thread. But the title of the thread is just the title of the article linked by us in the OP. And the title of the piece, of necessity, uses literary shortcuts to title the brief interview article. Did you look at the article?

(I mean, imagine an article titled, "ln the sport of professional cycling in Europe, among both the professional riders and the administrative staff in high level professional cycle racing governing bodies, are perhaps lacking athletes and staffers of African descent, or at least relative to the percentage of individuals of African descent residing in European countries").

That just doesn't have the zing of "Is cycling the whitest sport on earth"

In the end, this thread was never started to get into semantic arguments, more just to share one (highly unrepresented) rider's opinion about riding and about life, and to ask, can cycling do better?

To which, l think the answer is, 'certainly'.

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.

It would be great to see the power of cycling in the peloton move from Euro cyclists to another region but at the moment the biggest talent is in Europe and some Latin countries.The Pro Tour teams are in the business of wining races so giving spots to cycling minorities for the sake of diversity makes no sense,That is the responsibility of the UCI and that is what they are doing via their other tour events around the world.It is not the fault of the Pro Tour teams that the developing nations have not reached a standard where more of them are represented.

Here are all the UCI Tour events in Asia in 2019. There are 31 events spread over 13 Asian nations with 44 different teams competing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_UCI_Asia_Tour

Sure, generally, l follow.

But it is not all about assigning 'fault'.

It is more that white and non-white and black individuals have all proven themselves to be extraordinary athletes in endurance sports when reasonable opportunity and encouragement is offered to all. But, we all know that few, if any, societies provide this.

And competition is not really competition when even the playing field starts out inherently unfair.

Maybe that will never change. But here is hoping that it should, and that it will ...

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OK but if we are going to get all egalitarian about promoting top end cycling to other groups of non white descent in Europe, then why do Europeans of African decent need to get priority over Europeans of Turkish, Arab, South Asian, Cambodian, Indonesian or Chinese descent? I understand the US context about black populations. But in Europe, they are another group of the population who largely got there due to being part of the European colony network.

Long before the world cup winning French soccer team from the 2018 world cup (many of whom were West African descent Frenchmen) the French team was first lead by by Zinedine Zidane one of the greatest of all time (well if you are French). Not that many Zidanes (French athletes born in France of Algerian descent) in the pro cycling ranks either.

I asked him pages ago why Native Americans weren't more represented in world swimming as it posed just as much logic to the narrative being driven but I didn't get a response.

Sorry, l did not catch that. Did not know you were seriously asking. Not sure where you are from, but native Americans have been and are treated beyond horrifically in the usa. Probably the only group that has gotten worse treatment here are the descendants of African slaves. To the best of my knowledge, Native Americans are not well represented in any elite sport in the usa.

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They shouldn't, and l don't think anyone is/was saying otherwise. It is just that in the article (the one linked in the OP), they are interviewing a black cyclist so naturally they are talking about black riders in this particular case. Not rocket science.

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So it is racism that every race and ethnicity is misrepresented in every sport of the world. I get it now...

Just so you know, I don't think most people read the article. We are responding to the title of your thread. We don't care about the underlying article only the discussion on the thread. When you fixate on black Europeans who are not marginalized more than first or second gen Europeans from other colonies, I'm asking you to look wider, not just black Europeans since we're talking about high end UCI cycling in Europe and those from former colonies may or may not have access to turn pro in cycling.

Not sure if that is the case in every situation in every place on the planet, but for sure the treatment of native Americans and African Americans in the usa has been profoundly terrible (and that is putting it very very mildly) throughout the entire history of the usa. There is no debate there.

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Ah, gotcha. The subject line is just the exact title of the linked article, but made some edits for better clarity.

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