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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe. I'd still like to revisit this argument a few years later once we have a successful black cycling star or 2. You are likely onto something. Being socially acceptable is a big deal for teenagers.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [trail] [ In reply to ]
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i cant imagine being so bored that I have to think about the race of athletes and wondering this dumb mess
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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The sport isn’t in their DNA so to speak so the volume of kids taking up the sport just isn’t there. Kids want to have fun in groups and their idols will be football players. Football is a way bigger sport in Europe than cycling and every kid will be playing football in school. Why is there not more native Americans in Swimming?
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Traket92x wrote:
Since I keep seeing the number of blacks on the World Tour, how many American’s are on the World Tour? How about Canadians?

I don't know why that's relevant to this particular discussion. But 25 Americans and 8 Canucks.

Really that many Americans? I'm surprised. Did you find a list or count them yourself?
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [offpiste.reese] [ In reply to ]
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offpiste.reese wrote:

Really that many Americans? I'm surprised. Did you find a list or count them yourself?


A little of both. If you go to the UCI Teams page and then to the "Members" tab and then select the U.S. and "WorldTeams" (and then Women's WorldTeams to add the women after), you get a list of coaches and riders. Then you have to count a bit to get rid of the coaches. Which is pretty easy since it's like two - Vaughters and one dude at CCC. That surprised me, thought there'd be more American staff.

The low # of American women (4) surprised me at first, then realized how many of the best American women (e.g. Chloe Dygert, Lauren Stephens, Megan Jastrab) are all on "domestic" teams even though they race internationally.
Last edited by: trail: Jun 28, 20 19:31
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic wrote:
The sport isn’t in their DNA so to speak
Not sure what that means.

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so the volume of kids taking up the sport just isn’t there. Kids want to have fun in groups and their idols will be football players. Football is a way bigger sport in Europe than cycling and every kid will be playing football in school.
This l follow 100%, except cycing IS a pretty big spectator sport in Europe (well, on non-COVID years at least ... ). But, more to the point, l don't understand how any of this stuff above applies to poor working class black European kids but not equally so to poor working class white European kids ... which brings me back to: if poor whites can make it to the pro ranks, why not the same (approx proportional to the local populations, of course) for poor blacks? 5+5 pro black riders for an entire continent of nearly 750 million people seems very very odd, like perhaps there are other forces at work.

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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [Hollywood_USAF] [ In reply to ]
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Hollywood_USAF wrote:
i cant imagine being so bored that I have to think about the race of athletes and wondering this dumb mess
Not sure where you are from, but the USA has been historically downright OBSESSED with race, and l am talking about the white people.

Heck, that is why the League of American Wheelmen made it a point to exclude colored bike riders from their membership. And that is why countless organizations, sports clubs, YMCAs, gymnasiums, athletic clubs, sport governing bodies, swim clubs, golf clubs, country clubs, and the list goes on and on and on, clearly got so "bored" that they had the time and inclination to make 10,000 rules to prevent African Americans for joining and participating in their activities. Yup, Americans hve clearly been very very bored ...

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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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You didn’t explain to me why there isn’t more native Americans in international competitive swimming?
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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I hate these things. Especially with the way the writers try to paint the sport as something that it isn't. So it states that there are no black people on the Management council of the UCI. They're attempting to say it is all white. It is not.

2 Vice Presidents of the three, are of an ethnic background that is non-white. Three Council Members are of an ethnic background that is non-white. So of the 18 Members of the Management council, FIVE, are of an ethnic background that is non-white.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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TheStroBro wrote:
I hate these things. Especially with the way the writers try to paint the sport as something that it isn't. So it states that there are no black people on the Management council of the UCI. They're attempting to say it is all white. It is not.

2 Vice Presidents of the three, are of an ethnic background that is non-white. Three Council Members are of an ethnic background that is non-white. So of the 18 Members of the Management council, FIVE, are of an ethnic background that is non-white.

..
...
I get your frustration and I felt the same way when people started the narrative that "Triathlon" is a racist sport..I know a bunch of the people in this photo very well and know the work they have put in over two decades to develop the sport of triathlon in Asia only to have a bunch of SJW's try to tell me that triathlon has no diversity..Some of these people double up as members of their respective countries cycling federations as well.

The Asian Triathlon Confederation Congress 2019.( ITU President Marisol Casado front and centre)
https://www.triathlon.org/...five_ioc_commissions

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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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In my mind a core piece of the picture is easy to understand but the solution is harder to address.

When I ride with women the amount of totally unprovoked harassment from drivers roughly doubles. My experience with training with black athletes is that this harassment goes up again by another 1.5-2 times. If I had to deal with 4 times as much aggressive BS on the road I would leave the sport and so its no surprise to me (in the UK and US) the sport looks very white and very male.


Part of the solution is to reduce road harassment and increase road respect in general. This will benefit everyone but doesn't address the racist and sexist element of the harassment. This is a societal issue that bleeds into the sport and I don't think there is a solution without big changes to societal as a whole.
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
But many many blacks are UK and European natives, what about them?

At least here in Germany overall there are not many blacks. In my cycling club one of 200 members is black, more members with Turkish and eastern European heritage, just like the population mix in Germany.

In professional soccer and basketball blacks are overrepresented compared to the German mix. One reason may be players from the US and Africa, but even when counting only native Germans, I think blacks are overrepresented in these sports.
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Good call - I was just going to point about Alvarado.

In any case she is going road also - going to be on a road team with CX stars Worst and Cant. (The not-motivational-sounding duo).

That's why they make a point of saying "Verst" and "Kont"

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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [scott8888] [ In reply to ]
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scott8888 wrote:
In my mind a core piece of the picture is easy to understand but the solution is harder to address.

When I ride with women the amount of totally unprovoked harassment from drivers roughly doubles. My experience with training with black athletes is that this harassment goes up again by another 1.5-2 times. If I had to deal with 4 times as much aggressive BS on the road I would leave the sport and so its no surprise to me (in the UK and US) the sport looks very white and very male.

Part of the solution is to reduce road harassment and increase road respect in general. This will benefit everyone but doesn't address the racist and sexist element of the harassment. This is a societal issue that bleeds into the sport and I don't think there is a solution without big changes to societal as a whole.

Well said. Of course this is a societal issue and not only a triathlon or cycling specific issue.

But before any solutions can be implemented, people have to at least acknowledge that problems exist. And that it is not easy for many ...

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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Hollywood_USAF wrote:
i cant imagine being so bored that I have to think about the race of athletes and wondering this dumb mess

Not sure where you are from, but the USA has been historically downright OBSESSED with race, and l am talking about the white people.

Heck, that is why the League of American Wheelmen made it a point to exclude colored bike riders from their membership. And that is why countless organizations, sports clubs, YMCAs, gymnasiums, athletic clubs, sport governing bodies, swim clubs, golf clubs, country clubs, and the list goes on and on and on, clearly got so "bored" that they had the time and inclination to make 10,000 rules to prevent African Americans for joining and participating in their activities. Yup, Americans hve clearly been very very bored ...


Point to me these rules today. Show me one rule in any of those orgs that exclude race today right now as we speak.
Last edited by: Hollywood_USAF: Jun 29, 20 6:39
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [Hollywood_USAF] [ In reply to ]
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Hollywood_USAF wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Hollywood_USAF wrote:
i cant imagine being so bored that I have to think about the race of athletes and wondering this dumb mess

Not sure where you are from, but the USA has been historically downright OBSESSED with race, and l am talking about the white people.

Heck, that is why the League of American Wheelmen made it a point to exclude colored bike riders from their membership. And that is why countless organizations, sports clubs, YMCAs, gymnasiums, athletic clubs, sport governing bodies, swim clubs, golf clubs, country clubs, and the list goes on and on and on, clearly got so "bored" that they had the time and inclination to make 10,000 rules to prevent African Americans for joining and participating in their activities. Yup, Americans hve clearly been very very bored ...


Point to me these rules today. Show me one rule in any of those orgs that exclude race. Or are you crying about decades ago that has nothing to do with today V

Exactly. Because rules and discrimination and worse in the distant and recent past have zero affect on people today. And we all know that today African Americans are all treated wonderfully by those in authority and not in authority at all governmental and non-governmental organizations. Problem solved. Time to move on.

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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Hollywood_USAF wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Hollywood_USAF wrote:
i cant imagine being so bored that I have to think about the race of athletes and wondering this dumb mess

Not sure where you are from, but the USA has been historically downright OBSESSED with race, and l am talking about the white people.

Heck, that is why the League of American Wheelmen made it a point to exclude colored bike riders from their membership. And that is why countless organizations, sports clubs, YMCAs, gymnasiums, athletic clubs, sport governing bodies, swim clubs, golf clubs, country clubs, and the list goes on and on and on, clearly got so "bored" that they had the time and inclination to make 10,000 rules to prevent African Americans for joining and participating in their activities. Yup, Americans hve clearly been very very bored ...


Point to me these rules today. Show me one rule in any of those orgs that exclude race. Or are you crying about decades ago that has nothing to do with today V


Exactly. Because rules and discrimination and worse in the distant and recent past have zero affect on people today. And we all know that today African Americans are all treated wonderfully by those in authority and not in authority at all governmental and non-governmental organizations. Problem solved. Time to move on.


You proved my point. Anything else you want to create out of thin air and complain about Let’s address why there are no 6 foot tall women from the Maldives in the sport too or maybe why there isn’t more insert this group here. I’m in the minority category and the last thing I concern myself with is the race of the athletes I compete against. I have bigger issues to worry about
Last edited by: Hollywood_USAF: Jun 29, 20 6:46
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [Hollywood_USAF] [ In reply to ]
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Roger.

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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [Hollywood_USAF] [ In reply to ]
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Hollywood_USAF wrote:
I’m in the minority category and the last thing I concern myself with is the race of the athletes I compete against. I have bigger issues to worry about


Seems like it is pretty high on your list since you're posting multiple times on the topic. That or you already have handled all the "bigger" issues.

My YouTubes

Last edited by: LAI: Jun 29, 20 8:02
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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The first question shouldn't be why is it white, but instead, is it "Inclusive." We tend to shift every conversation towards black and white or black vs. white, when the conversation should be about diversity as a whole which entails a great deal more than simply black vs. white. There is no question that black and white is used as a springboard towards resentment and divisiveness and because of the exclusion and barriers put in place in the past and some of which still exist. But if you are purely comparing black vs. white, then you are not comparing diversity within a category or subject matter and then can't compare the makeup of that subject matter (sport) as a whole. What should be asked in the context of diversity is does the subject (sport) reflect the makeup of that community? Is that on a local level, jurisdiction, country, the sport as a whole or just the professional ranks? If you are comparing within the US and look at the US population as a whole, 76% are white, 13% are black or African american and 18% are Hispanic or Latino. If you are looking at the diversity within cycling in comparison to the population as whole then the ideal makeup of diversity within cycling should reflect those numbers. But for some we have shifted the focus to an equal makeup of the category vs. a diverse distribution. If there is no diversity whatsoever then we should be questioning why and first look at if it is inclusive and what are the barriers to entry and how to overcome them. The arguments of Basketball fail just as most other sports if we look at them in the same context. Is there diversity? Yes, but the makeup reflects a higher number of black or African american's, but is it inclusive? Do the behaviors and social norms of entry into the sport and continued participation, opportunity for growth and development reflect acceptance of any racial group? If you believe that it isn't inclusive then what are the barriers and do they exclude or favor one racial group over another?

Understanding we need to ensure that the barriers are eliminated but more importantly aren't created to the point of exclusion of any race and that it is inclusive for not just race but also gender. We need to shift the mindset and the argument away from black and white or more importantly black vs white somehow, someway.
Last edited by: tri3ba: Jun 29, 20 8:36
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [tri3ba] [ In reply to ]
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tri3ba wrote:
The first question shouldn't be why is it white, but instead, is it "Inclusive." We tend to shift every conversation towards black and white or black vs. white, when the conversation should be about diversity as a whole which entails a great deal more than simply black vs. white. There is no question that black and white is used as a springboard towards resentment and divisiveness and because of the exclusion and barriers put in place in the past and some of which still exist. But if you are purely comparing black vs. white, then you are not comparing diversity within a category or subject matter and then can't compare the makeup of that subject matter (sport) as a whole. What should be asked in the context of diversity is does the subject (sport) reflect the makeup of that community? Is that on a local level, jurisdiction, country, the sport as a whole or just the professional ranks? If you are comparing within the US and look at the US population as a whole, 76% are white, 13% are black or African american and 18% are Hispanic or Latino. If you are looking at the diversity within cycling in comparison to the population as whole then the ideal makeup of diversity within cycling should reflect those numbers. But for some we have shifted the focus to an equal makeup of the category vs. a diverse distribution. If there is no diversity whatsoever then we should be questioning why and first look at if it is inclusive and what are the barriers to entry and how to overcome them. The arguments of Basketball fail just as most other sports if we look at them in the same context. Is there diversity? No, the makeup reflects a higher number of black or African american's, but is it inclusive? Do the behaviors and social norms of entry into the sport and continued participation, opportunity for growth and development reflect acceptance of any racial group? If you believe that it isn't inclusive then what are the barriers and do they exclude or favor one racial group over another?

Understanding we need to ensure that the barriers are eliminated but more importantly aren't created to the point of exclusion of any race and that it is inclusive for not just race but also gender. We need to shift the mindset and the argument away from black and white or more importantly black vs white somehow, someway.


Very well said.

As you describe, in the usa, even though there are a lot of African Americans playing at this level, I think that there could be a lot more true diversity in US professional sports.

So, yes, diversity is important. But since African Americans have historically been singled out for the most vicious and extended racism and terror over their whole existence in the usa, I think that the condition of African Americans is special even compared to the many other ethnic groups in america. Other ethnic groups have been treated badly here, but the way African Americans are and have been treated is much much worse, as measured pretty much on any scale.

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Last edited by: DarkSpeedWorks: Jun 29, 20 10:17
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic wrote:
Because most Africans there will be migrants coming from a football fanatic family no doubt wanting to be the next football star and the way they make friends and community is through a common sport. Cycling is foreign to them. Meanwhile their neighbours in France, Spain, Italy, Belgium non migrants are generations of cycling fanatics. That’s not rocket science.
Exactly it's not rocket science but to some that just want to play the race card on anything you don't see 'diversity'.... and by that they really mean black people... it appears to be rocket science. By and large cycling isn't a racist thing from my perspective. I grew up in poor predominately minority neighborhoods in the US and cycling wasn't on anyone's list or something we even knew about.

I cycle today and a few from the hood do as well... it was the big three for us though... basketball, football and baseball. I see and feel no limiters to cycling outside of the cost and desire to do so.
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [trail] [ In reply to ]
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All three examples are zero-sum games: DK, Kona and elite college admissions. All three have limited fields and are based on quantifiable standards (college is a little more subjective).

If you assert the argument that white privilege prevents people of color from attending elite colleges, or competing in a bike race (sport) then eschewing the privilege and foregoing your spot in favor of offering opportunity to those same people is a direct solution to the problem of privilege.

My point is that people who tell us that we must do it never do it themselves.
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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Oddly, one of the sports held in greatest disdain by city dwellers is among the most diverse. Rodeo and bull riding are both extremely diverse and anglos probably make up less than half of participants. (Yet, the uninitiated still call them redneck sports! Ignorance is a hard thing to overcome.)
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Re: "Is Cycling the Whitest Sport on Earth?" [Pathlete] [ In reply to ]
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Pathlete wrote:
If you assert the argument that white privilege prevents people of color from attending elite colleges, or competing in a bike race (sport) then eschewing the privilege and foregoing your spot in favor of offering opportunity to those same people is a direct solution to the problem of privilege.

You bet, that is indeed a helpful (but by no means all encompassing) partial solution.

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