“this box ends at the upper part of the seatpost… which is documented in the rules”
Please share the relevant element of the rule you say is documented. Is this said in the DTU Rule interpretation?
“the front responds to the lower edge of the armcups.”
In the video the demonstrator places the corner of the perspex rectangle on the upper side of the arm rest (ie where the upper forearm rests in the example shown) not on “the lower edge of the arm support”
World Tri interpretation doc: “When measured from the lowest edge of the arm support (if none exists, the lowest edge of the athlete’s elbow in the rider’s intended aero position),”
What means of communication do you think would be most effective?
i am referring to the picture shown in dtu rules…the judge also referred to this picture and the green box. the upper edge of the box ends at the top plane of the seatpost.
This is why he argued with the athlete even no written rule is established. Sorry for my bad english, it seems hard to understand my written posts.
I am not DTU or WTO and do not like being called stupid by anyone, just because i reflected on an actual judging which took place here…
First - please don’t take other people’s use of ‘stupid’ personally. Imho use of “stupid” displays lack of vocabulary. And this is not you, it’s the failure to provide clarity on how the rules are going to be interpreted.
DTU Rules have been linked upthread by @marquette42 . They seem a faithful translation of the World Tri Rules/interpretation, or vice versa.
The 300x300mm box is both virtual and positioned and orientated merely as an example (“Beispielgrafik”): its lead (front) edge is defined as passing through the attachment point of container/cage to the seat tube, seat post or saddle.
DTU: Grundsätzlich:
Die Regelung für das Heck gilt ab der Sattelstütze entgegen Fahrtrichtung.
23.6 (google translate)
Fundamental: The regulation for the rear applies from the seat post [backwards].
a. Rear: All attached holders, containers, bottle cages, etc. must fit completely into an imaginary box of 30x30cm.
Note the footnotes: “Beispielgrafik” which even my poor German can manage as: 'Example graphic" i.e. this is where a virtual 300x300 square could be placed, defined by its dimensions and passing through the attachment to the seat post. “Meßpunkt” is “measuring point”, the reference datum point (“gemessen von der untersten Kante der Ellbogen-/Armauflage”).
Effectively <7 days for a proper IRONMAN response, drawing/based on the World Tri Rules interpretation doc.
‘We’ have taken prophylactic actions before flying to Germany.
Still favour the IM and your (I think) line: max two litres capacity front and rear, attached max height 100m above top tube, nothing directly above the arms, anything you want within the frame triangle (actual or virtual).
KISS
IRONMAN Triathlon Water Bottles and Hydration Systems rules (5.2(c) - below) are clear, and no further interpretation is necessary, notwithstanding the recent 'Rule Interpretation around the World Triathlon fairing rule.
(c) Water Bottles and Hydration Systems
(i) Front Mounted Water Bottles and Hydration Systems mounted to components
attached to the bike that rotate around the steering axis (e.g., cockpit extensions, top tube, headset, stem, head tube) must have a combined maximum volume capacity of no more than two (2) liters (this excludes water bottles and hydration systems located inside the frame triangle of a bicycle or inside the bicycle frame) (DSQ). [Needs comment prohibiting any components covering (above) the arms.]
(ii) Rear Mounted Water Bottles and Hydration Systems are limited in size, capacity, dimension and location as follows:
(i) Cannot contain more than two (2) water bottles* (DSQ); and
(ii) Must not exceed one (1) liter capacity per bottle* (DSQ).
*Excludes water bottles and hydration systems located inside the frame triangle of a bike or inside the bike frame.
Popping this here - my comment on Ryan ‘Free the Rear Hyrdation’ petition (thread).
This is the case.
Pros received this direction for Hamburg this (Thursday) afternoon (22nd May).
"UPDATED FAIRINGS
"World Triathlon, in consultation with its Technical Committee, the DTU, and the bicycling manufacturers’ industry has updated their Rules pertaining to fairings and Hydration Systems.
Anxiously awaiting the incoming sh!tshow at the 3 events this weekend. Maybe they’ll enforce strictly and make a lot of people mad. Maybe they’ll let everything pass and make others mad.
But most likely they’ll enforce randomly and with different levels of scrutiny at each event, further adding to the confusion. Monday morning TikToks of “How did THIS pass the bike check!?!”, “The SECRET to beat the NEW REGS”.
Call me pessimistic, but I’d expect very little substance and a lot of:
“We want to create a level playing field”
“We want to be transparent for all of our athletes”
“At it’s core Ironman is about testing your limits, not the equipment”
“What our athletes say is most important to us”
“These rules were put in place for safety”
The point that we all know but don’t want to admit is that if you bought it from one of the big bike brands it’ll be allowed. If you put it together yourself or bought it from an AliExpress brand you might be able to get away with it but it’s not for sure. Obviously IM, WT, or DTU can’t say that publicly.
A 750ml bottle (which is specified in the World Tri interpretation doc/implementation video as the ‘reference bottle’ and is 250mm long) offers an easy assessment of whether a set up is legal at the front: in the base of the bottle cage in front of the arm rest lowest point (the datum point)? If ‘yes’: all good. Otherwise: nope. And it’s not good saying ‘oh I’ll put a 600ml bottle there’.
I’m sure the approach being followed will be covered in the Pro Briefing shortly.
Given that the DTU refs screwed this down in Kraichgau (4 Pros needed to adjust stuff) and doing the same for the WPros in Hamburg, I’m sure the USAT refs will be both well-briefed and disciplined in San Francisco.
Given Riccitello has clearly got a firm grip of this for IRONMAN, as was evident in the ST Pod, I’m sure World Tri will be keen to show excellence: T100 is their premier draft-illegal race series after all.
Hamburg message (to WPros last week):
UPDATED FAIRINGS
World Triathlon, in consultation with its Technical Committee, the DTU, and the bicycling manufacturers’ industry, has updated their Rules pertaining to fairings and Hydration Systems.
[Fairings Update] (this has been linked upthread ad nauseum)
Alignment with this Rule at IRONMAN/ IRONMAN 70.3 events, will be effective starting on May 25th.
25 cm is approximately the size of a standard 750ml bottle, and this bottle starts well back of the elbows.
This one’s the easy one to spot for most bikes, since you just compare the bottle start to elbow position. You could probably just stand at bike check-in and use that as your rule of thumb to spot on the fly. The other is obviously the BTS + Speedbox combo, but I don’t think that one will stand the test of time, at least at IM.
more or less correctly
