This rear bottle holder fits in the 30x30 square, would be illegal as it cross above the saddle?
Is less than 30x30.
As long as it all fits within a 30x30 frame it doesnāt matter how high or low it is mounted.
i have had a similar setup, they did not even bother to check anything in the frontā¦or started to measureā¦
i have an elite setup āButaā with a straw going upwardsā¦
you should be cool with itā¦
I do not think it is a legal setup, as the bottlecageholder is above the upper limits (the limit is the top plane of the seatpost)
Where your sattle rails are.
i think that needs to be cleared by the dtuā¦we have had athletes where the 30 c 30 cm square fit was given and okā¦other judges insisted on the upper edge of the seat postā¦?
That is so weird. In the explanation for the front there is a clear reference point as start of the measurements. But for the rear there is no mention of that. Or am I overlooking something?
Otherwise seats like the Ramus and the Wove would become illegal too. I donāt think thatās the intention of the DTU. I also cannot find anywhere in their rules that there is a limit for the position of the 30x30 frame.
Iām just going to print the rules and ask them to point to that specific rule at the bike check if theyāre going to cause trouble!
Definitely not in the rules and not the intention. This would make nearly all normal rail mounted carriers illegal (like xlab etc)
The rules clearly have a front edge and the 30 by 30 has not upper bound. Just all components from mounting hardware to the seatpost to the bottle cage itself have to be in it.
If anyone challenges a bottle above the seat ask for the hed ref and pull up a copy of the rules. Thatās a wrong interpretation
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Youāre totally making that up! (World Tri Rules and published interpretation document)
By all means share a quote describing the ālimit is the top plane of the seatpostā.
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Its a comically stupid response/interpretationā¦ if that was true this set up would be illegal too lol
Another explanation video from the Challenge Roth folks dropped.
This time they are saying that bike manufacturer made/supplied toolboxes donāt have to be included in the 30 x 30 cm box, but this āexceptionā is for Roth only. While I appreciate that, hopefully DTU and WT is listening and realize they need to change the actual rule.
Itās refreshing that the Challenge Family is listening, hopefully WT, DTU and Ironman will too.
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If anyone doesnt know Felix ā¦ he is the best race director out there, always listening to his athletes. Keep in mind he was the one that got everyone to the table in the first place when 3 sets of rules were being made!
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Yes, the rule regarding manufacturer draft boxes is stupid, wildly and unnecessarily disruptive for the manufacturers, and as I have been arguing, itās destined to never be enforced.
OK, Iāve had a go at describing the Roth Variation to the World Tri Rules (interpretation document).
World Tri Rules
4. Rear ā All attached holders, containers, bottle holders, etc., must fit completely into an imaginary frame no larger than 30x30cm.
- Bottles may protrude beyond this area.
- A maximum of 2 bottles with a maximum capacity of one litre each are permitted.
- The following components are excluded from this regulation:
- Race Ranger device
- Exception rear ā Hydration - Systems integrated in the frame:
- may be larger than 30 cm x 30 cm,
- may not contain more than 2 litres in total,
- must not protrude beyond the vertical line through the rear axle.
- On bicycles with hydration systems that are integrated into the frame, no additional attachments may be added to the rear of the frame.
Roth Variation Rules
- Rear ā All attached holders, containers, bottle holders, etc., must fit within a virtual square of dimensions: 30 cm x 30 cm.
- Bottles may protrude beyond this area.
- A maximum of 2 bottles with a maximum capacity of one litre each is permitted.
- The following components are excluded from this regulation:
- Race Ranger device
- Rear light
- Containers, boxes, hydration systems integrated in the frame
- Original frame manufacturerās containers, boxes attached to the frame.
- Spare
I may have missed it for Roth did they say if you have an integrate rear hydration (ie shiv) if rear bottles were allowed too as part of the Roth only exception
Yes - bottle/other holders/cages (within 30x30 square) can be in addition to a tail fin whether integrated or OEM attached.
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Iām not going to catch myself up on the thread, but WT made a video on how they will check bikes. But I didnāt see this already posted. This is easier to follow than their poorly written rule (any confusing rule is poorly written by nature). I just posted it on the other thread too.
Ahh donāt know why I forgot this was about rear toolboxes. Iām using a 3D printed box above the BB. Carry on (I hope).
Thank you for finding and sharing.
I donāt agree it is easier to follow.
The rule (with interpretation) is expressed clearly enough, even if I think it is flawed. I too have replied on the DTU thread: this video is so mickey mouse, starting with the flexible transparent template which seems not to be 30cm x 30cm!! And critically they do not place the squareās corner on the datum point described in the rules (the lowest point of the armrest).
Well, it is a report of a DTU judging in Germanyā¦The judge interpreted the picture of the 30 x 30 cm box and this box ends at the upper part of the seatpostā¦ which is documented in the rules the same way, the front responds to the lower edge of the armcups.
It just shows, that the rules still need adjustments.
Well, tell this to the dtu judge, not me!