Dan, just my 2 cents here but I’m looking at this from a retail perspective and from a customer perspective (I used to run my own online clothing boutique so I get both sides). The size chart for the bibs…the waist circumference seems really small. As you said they are generous fits, are these correct? Happy to chat offline too if I can help at all.
Thank You. I’m happy we are getting emails and PM’s to assist with selection.
We are re-doing all the charts. There were errors when I sent them to the graphics person.
It was my mistake.
I’m no expert but in my own product descriptions I included some very “plain” measurements, for example on womens’ clothing tops, I did the length of sleeve from the neckline, the length of the overall product from the back collar/tag, and then a rather-subjective “bust” measurement - people really don’t read anymore and it didn’t matter to me what the industry standards are/were so it was just whatever made sense to them. For shorts, I also did rise, inseam, and the length of the outside seam so that people had a general idea of the overall product.
Yes - that all makes sense.
Just ordered a pair too, can’t wait to get them.
Long Term Review
General up-date.
Thank you Slowtwitch for all the orders. We have just placed another production order as we are close to being sold out on some sizes/models.
We are working on all the size charts now and hope to have them posted on the site next week.
Our final version of our new saddle is being sampled. We have tweaked the mold a little as well as the cover features and rail strength. More on the saddle soon.
All the new colors in light weight (51 gram) running caps are now in stock and we will have images of them up on the web site soon.
Our Mens and Womens light weight running shorts are in production.
More to come!!!
Has anyone ordered/worn the Position One Bib Shorts mentioned in a ST article recently? What were shipping times like and what was your experience wearing them? I’m esp interested in feedback from those that use ISM/split nose style saddles.
Try these. https://bikecloset.com/...pe-rs-bib-shorts-s9/http://
Swiss engineering is extremely hard to beat. Quality, fit and longevity is second to none. Aero pad and low waist for porto ease just like shorts. It’s cheaper as well at $159 and comes with a 30 day free return policy of a refund as opposed to store credit and is backed by Assos 2 year guarantee covering manufacturing fault where they will repair or replace free of charge to include shipping.
Without our Patented Aero Pad - just another bib.
Without our Patented Aero Pad - just another bib.
No offense, and I have no dog in this hunt, but your patent doesn’t preclude these shorts, or possibly any number of others, from doing an equal job, or perhaps even a better job in the aero position.
If you’re saying that you believe that your bibs are better than Assos then why not back them up with the same refund (and not store credit) and 2 year warranty replacement policy so we can compare apples to apples.
Welcome to Slowtwitch - I see you are new.
First - no - another company can not copy our design or placement. That’s the point of the Patent being granted.
If an athlete gets one of our products and it does not fit or they just don’t like it I am happy to exchange it or refund their money. There was a thread on this site about 8 months ago discussing refunds vs exchanges. A lot of opinions on both sides. A few comments were " I just order one of each size and color and send back what I don’t want" - that is the kind of thing we are trying to avoid. Position One is still a small company and that kind of practice is hard for us to deal with.
We are very proud of our products, the build quality and the saddle sore issues we have been able to solve with our pad innovation.
Welcome to Slowtwitch - I see you are new.
First - no - another company can not copy our design or placement. That’s the point of the Patent being granted.
If an athlete gets one of our products and it does not fit or they just don’t like it I am happy to exchange it or refund their money. There was a thread on this site about 8 months ago discussing refunds vs exchanges. A lot of opinions on both sides. A few comments were " I just order one of each size and color and send back what I don’t want" - that is the kind of thing we are trying to avoid. Position One is still a small company and that kind of practice is hard for us to deal with.
We are very proud of our products, the build quality and the saddle sore issues we have been able to solve with our pad innovation.
I’ve been here for 17 years and know all the players. 8 months ago that article was about Silca and the policy change Josh enacted. I get it.
Are you saying that your updating your return policy from store credit to refund back to the original method of payment?
My original point here is the fact that there are other high quality, cheaper options, with better return and warranty options available.
You can prove your point without being a bit of a dick in here to Dan.
This is a thread specifically dedicated to Position One’s products. If you want to start a thread about that other bib, you’re more than welcome to.
We will stay with our strict policy to make sure we do everything we can to ensure every customer is satisfied with their transaction, treated with respect and can ride pain free.
Welcome to Slowtwitch - I see you are new.
First - no - another company can not copy our design or placement. That’s the point of the Patent being granted.
If an athlete gets one of our products and it does not fit or they just don’t like it I am happy to exchange it or refund their money. There was a thread on this site about 8 months ago discussing refunds vs exchanges. A lot of opinions on both sides. A few comments were " I just order one of each size and color and send back what I don’t want" - that is the kind of thing we are trying to avoid. Position One is still a small company and that kind of practice is hard for us to deal with.
We are very proud of our products, the build quality and the saddle sore issues we have been able to solve with our pad innovation.
I’ve been here for 17 years and know all the players. 8 months ago that article was about Silca and the policy change Josh enacted. I get it.
Are you saying that your updating your return policy from store credit to refund back to the original method of payment?
My original point here is the fact that there are other high quality, cheaper options, with better return and warranty options available.
So go shop them, fu#knozzle. You will not find a more standup guy in the sport than Dan K. I’m not sure how anyone who has “been here for 17 years and knows all the players” (ha ha) isn’t aware of his reputation.
You can prove your point without being a bit of a dick in here to Dan.
This is a thread specifically dedicated to Position One’s products. If you want to start a thread about that other bib, you’re more than welcome to.
Ryan no need to hurl insults. I offered up my opinion and suggested an alternative option to the OP just like others have done a thousand times in a thousand different posts before me. And I did so politely.
Dan is protecting his brand. You are protecting your brand and standing by him. He pays your bills and I imagine it’s difficult to impartially review his product and not take his side given your business relationship.
Let’s get into the nuts and bolts as to how/why athletes are getting relief with Position One products, how they are different and why we make them the way we do.
I will take each topic (feature) in “bite size” pieces in the next few entries on this thread.
I will start with full agreement that many companies can and do use great base material in the construction of their bib or short (the main body of the garment) including straps, seam construction, reflectivity, pockets etc. We know those items are excellent in our products - even better than most - but here are others that we believe do a fantastic job in these areas - Assos, Desoto, Rapha, Castelli.
But, the things list above are not why athletes are purchasing our products.
There are three main features (differences) with our products.
- Pad Placement - where our pad sits within each of our products.
- Shape - how we make our shapes and why.
- Construction - how 3D (additive manufacturing) of the pad changes our ability to manipulate the various densities, variable thickness, moisture wicking characteristics of each area of the pad, foam type as well as thickness and contour of the pad.
And then there are all the little things.
We will get into all of this next.
Our editorial policy for partners has not, and will not change, and it’s this:
We guarantee that we’ll publish a certain number of articles about a product or a brand.
We do not ever guarantee that that coverage will be positive, negative, or in between.
Quite literally in the review I point out issues I had with my product, as well as where I think there’s room for improvement. I’ve also, in the past, taken other partners to task for shortcomings. We’re critical when something is deserving of it, and will praise something when it’s deserving of it.
And my prior post was not in reference to your original one pointing out Assos. It was your tone in response to Dan. Me intervening is to bring this thread back to its purpose: discussing the product line.
The first in a few small bites of information:
Let’s talk about pad position.
Next time you are out on a group aero ride look at the riders in front of you and you will notice that the main two round sections of their pad is behind them when riding in aero! The narrow section is exactly where you don’t want it – in front and down the middle. The saddle cut out helps with the improperly placed narrow section.
This post from a Slowtwitch forum member back in March – sums up the main issue.
“For years i was using some bib shorts from local shop…but now i tried some bibs from others… Like castelli endurance and so… Whats wrong with chamois position…it is too far back.
When i get in aeeo clips, under my front side there is nothing…all chamois is far far back…
Tried also endura bibs, gobik and some odlo amd craft…same storieâ€.
When riding in the upright road position (sitting on your sits – bones) a high quality regular pad is great. But, as you rotate forward in the aero position – you no longer support your weight on the sits-bones. The pad needed to be shaped like an aero saddle and moved forward.
https://positiononesports.com/pages/technology
Our pad does that.
You can prove your point without being a bit of a dick in here to Dan.
This is a thread specifically dedicated to Position One’s products. If you want to start a thread about that other bib, you’re more than welcome to.
Ryan no need to hurl insults. I offered up my opinion and suggested an alternative option to the OP just like others have done a thousand times in a thousand different posts before me. And I did so politely.
Dan is protecting his brand. You are protecting your brand and standing by him. He pays your bills and I imagine it’s difficult to impartially review his product and not take his side given your business relationship.
Face facts. You are being an ass. Heck, Emilio is a direct competitor to Dan and he is on here being nice and supportive. I do not think anyone is giving them undo praise. We are using this an as opportunity to inquire and ask questions. Many of us appreciate when product purveyors come on and answer questions. You do not get that from Nike.
It’s a lot easier to compare products when one is just comparing on price alone. It’s easy to say Swiss design etc then point out that they are on sale for $100 off making them less expensive than regular retail on the Position Ones. In the long run, if you’re not able to always buy on sale, then the Position One’s become roughly a 3 for the price of 2 of the others.
Yet unless you’ve touched/tried on a pair of Position One bibs you’re assuming that they are inferior to Assos or your preferred high end brand.
With many higher end brands, like several other brands across many categories you’re paying for quality and the name. For some higher name recognition brands you’re paying for the name more than the quality, which becomes evident as you’re dissecting a pair of their bibs stitch by stitch, seam by seam. This goes across many categories though, wetsuits, wheels etc.
Fun fact: did you know there are 7 or 8 types of seams and ~ 30 different types of stitching?
With Position One clothing you’re getting top of the line quality at a mid price point range. I can tell you that many pair of Assos, Rapha’s, Santini’s Castelli’s and other brands were taken apart seam by seam in the design of the Position One line. Chamois’s were taken apart layer by layer. That high end quality while solving the saddle sore problem is what Position One was after.
Fun Fact: There are very few brands designing their own chamois and even fewer making their own, yes even some of the highest end brands source that instead of designing it in house.
There are ~5 chamois manufacturers in the world that do ~ 85% of all brands chamois. Once you know what each manufacturer’s chamois looks like and the different tiers of densities that they have, it’s easy to see which brands use which company. Many of your highest end brands are using middle of the road chamois even though a higher density/more comfy chamois is only ~ $3-5 more expensive all in at their cost.
Position One developed the shape and positioning of the chamois and then went to companies asking if they can make the shape with the desired densities.