It was just crazy to see someone put over a full second on the fastest swimmers in the world.
I reckon he put the front and the back together perfectly, and we were expecting it to have been 46.7 but that swim is many generations ahead. The races from this session were all very exciting.
What’s the dirtiest swim you’ve ever done in a Triathlon?
Late 1990s Guelph Lake.
On topic:
- The last turn in the men’s 200 fly final was probably the greatest 10 seconds of swimming I have ever seen. Can’t even imagine how deep into the well he went for that.
- I jumped up and cheered by myself when Sjoestrom came back in the women’s 100.
I reckon he put the front and the back together perfectly, and we were expecting it to have been 46.7 but that swim is many generations ahead. The races from this session were all very exciting.
Indeed. That 100m was Boltian.
I have to laugh at all this “old lady” talk, even from SS herself. 30?
I mean, are those chefs back in town? 🤷ðŸ¼â€â™‚ï¸
(I stole that from swimswam comments.)
I saw it there. It’s both totally fair and unfair which makes it a real zinger.
We have to believe Pan is clean. He’s been tested something like 20 times this year. If they are getting away with it at that level, then the system is more broken than we think and we should just stop wasting money on it.
It was the best swim of my lifetime.
It was just crazy to see someone put over a full second on the fastest swimmers in the world.
You could say it was unbelievable
It was the best swim of my lifetime.//
Ya, hope you got your monies worth!! (-; That one and the 400IM of Phelps when he went 4;03, that was another out of this world. It is taken the next greatest generational swimmer to break it and everyone is still 3 to 5 seconds behind after all these years…
And when I think about it, Lezak’s anchor on that relay too. That was up until today, the fastest ever 100 free, relay adjusted even…
I mean, are those chefs back in town? 🤷ðŸ¼â€â™‚ï¸
(I stole that from swimswam comments.)
I saw it there. It’s both totally fair and unfair which makes it a real zinger.
We have to believe Pan is clean. He’s been tested something like 20 times this year. If they are getting away with it at that level, then the system is more broken than we think and we should just stop wasting money on it.
It was the best swim of my lifetime.
Justin Gatlin was banned for doping in 2006, on his return he raced for another 14 years running quicker “clean” at 38 than when he was doping at 21… and he was being testing almost weekly. Note if the athletes are microdosing the gear is out their system within hours. So even daily testing would be inadequate. We have to start looking at athletes performances and their progression. Obviously you get outliers who genuinely go from nobodies to world champions in a short period of time, but they are freak 1 in a million athletes.
Obviously you get outliers who genuinely go from nobodies to world champions in a short period of time, but they are freak 1 in a million athletes. //
Or 1 in 1.5 billion…Guy has been swimming fast for awhile now, of course that means nothing in the other topic we are dancing around here. Just with the Chinese doping controversy that was recently made public, makes a lot of sense to have other thoughts about these types of performances…And one would hope that modern doping tests are a lot better than they were back in the day your referenced, but I know little about such things…
I mean, are those chefs back in town? 🤷ðŸ¼â€â™‚ï¸
(I stole that from swimswam comments.)
I saw it there. It’s both totally fair and unfair which makes it a real zinger.
We have to believe Pan is clean. He’s been tested something like 20 times this year. If they are getting away with it at that level, then the system is more broken than we think and we should just stop wasting money on it.
It was the best swim of my lifetime.
Justin Gatlin was banned for doping in 2006, on his return he raced for another 14 years running quicker “clean” at 38 than when he was doping at 21… and he was being testing almost weekly. Note if the athletes are microdosing the gear is out their system within hours. So even daily testing would be inadequate. We have to start looking at athletes performances and their progression. Obviously you get outliers who genuinely go from nobodies to world champions in a short period of time, but they are freak 1 in a million athletes.
For context:
He’s a junior world record holder (or was, may have been broken).
In 2019 he was still a distance swimmer and went a 15:33 in the 1500
2020 at 16 48.7
2021 48.5 but then 46.9 in SCM
2022 47.6
2023 47.2 at worlds and then 46.9 at Asian games
2024 leads off relay at worlds in first wr
Today.
I’m not here to say that there is no suspect shit going on when it comes to supplementation (including China, AUS, Europe and America)
However Pan Zhanle and most of the other Chinese super stars have incredible technique.
Unlike in our culture where you have kids coming through club and age group, and even if you are pretty crap you still just swim for fun, CHN actively seem to break and whittle out the non-talented so they are left with the diamonds. And then CHN’s best coaches, and coaches overseas, only work with top talent on an advanced training program until they are world beaters.
Again, not saying there is no other suspect shit going on, but they have a very different method to development.
But I am telling myself to just take it for what it is and enjoy it. These kids and racers are racing for their careers and setting themselves up.
Sport is now reaching TDF levels - TDF GC riders are so mutant they break on hairpins lest they crash.
Another example Sun Yang - a very unpopular figure with Western swimmers, a gifted swimmer, incredible efficiency of technique. Subsequently cancelled from the sport in circumstances which are fairly controversial and grey. But comes through the China method. And some of my favourite videos to watch are his races and watching all the quirky and insane technical shit he did, breathing 5 strokes in a row sometimes in and out of turns, 26 strokes per lap splitting 28 high 29 low, gliding out like a dolphin.
The closest recent western example to that? Phelps and Milak butterfly, and Milak just basically swimming like Phelps. A thing of beauty.
A few disconnected thoughts here - hopefully people can join the dots
It should be noted that people, like Gatlin, who have used artificial means to enhance themselves retain an advantage long after they have stopped. But the reality for sprinters is not just strength it’s the speed at which their nervous system can use that muscle. Ben Johnson was said to have reached 10 steps per second and no one else had (Usain didn’t need to). That was probably not a result of steroids but training and a natural or enhanced nervous system response. In the 100m it’s the nervous system shutting down that slows them usually just after the 7 second mark, the rest is a deceleration. He (or she) who decelerates last wins.
This would translate across all sports that rely on both muscle response and nervous system response.
Having said that I watched the amazing Ledecky in the 1500 and came to the conclusion that not only does she barely kick, but she in fact has a one beat, one leg kick. I hope she stays in the sport long enough for Summer to kick her arse in the 1500…hey I am a canuck after all.
What’s the dirtiest swim you’ve ever done in a Triathlon?
Late 1990s Guelph Lake.
On topic:
- The last turn in the men’s 200 fly final was probably the greatest 10 seconds of swimming I have ever seen. Can’t even imagine how deep into the well he went for that.
- I jumped up and cheered by myself when Sjoestrom came back in the women’s 100.
Me too and Kelso Conservation Area in the Presidents Choice time when they had an amazing BBQ after the races. Ribs and stuff…
I’m not here to say that there is no suspect shit going on when it comes to supplementation (including China, AUS, Europe and America)
Yeah it sucks we’re accusing some young kid of doping with zero evidence, but that’s the state of sport today. 99% of the time a sports persons amazing “too good to be true” performances turn out to be just that, too good to be true.
It’s genuinely a slow pool too. Knocking 0.4s off your pb in that pool is not legit.
I’m not here to say that there is no suspect shit going on when it comes to supplementation (including China, AUS, Europe and America)
However Pan Zhanle and most of the other Chinese super stars have incredible technique.
Unlike in our culture where you have kids coming through club and age group, and even if you are pretty crap you still just swim for fun, CHN actively seem to break and whittle out the non-talented so they are left with the diamonds. And then CHN’s best coaches, and coaches overseas, only work with top talent on an advanced training program until they are world beaters.
Again, not saying there is no other suspect shit going on, but they have a very different method to development.
But I am telling myself to just take it for what it is and enjoy it. These kids and racers are racing for their careers and setting themselves up.
Sport is now reaching TDF levels - TDF GC riders are so mutant they break on hairpins lest they crash.
Another example Sun Yang - a very unpopular figure with Western swimmers, a gifted swimmer, incredible efficiency of technique. Subsequently cancelled from the sport in circumstances which are fairly controversial and grey. But comes through the China method. And some of my favourite videos to watch are his races and watching all the quirky and insane technical shit he did, breathing 5 strokes in a row sometimes in and out of turns, 26 strokes per lap splitting 28 high 29 low, gliding out like a dolphin.
The closest recent western example to that? Phelps and Milak butterfly, and Milak just basically swimming like Phelps. A thing of beauty.
A few disconnected thoughts here - hopefully people can join the dots
Yang trained under Dennis coterill didn’t he?
Also surprised no one has mentioned how Marchand did perhaps the hardest double to do in one finals session- 200 fly and 200 breast. Both take a lot out of you muscle-wise (last 5 meters are agony) and are both the only events i have power-chucked after races as a teen.
Yes he did swim with Dennis cotterell at various points. Don’t know the exact dates and for how long he was working with him. But whether it was super suits messing his technique or working with Dennis but between 2009 and 2010 he changed his technique and swam his first 1434 from 1446. First worked with Dennis in 2010.
Then did periods with him all the way up to 2019 I think.
He had Chinese coaches that got him good enough to go 1446 in any event.
And there is a little army of swimmers who all did that triple breathing out of walls and big catch up who swam with Dennis too. Jordy Harrison, Matt levings. Another Chinese swimmer yun hao who was 4th 400 fr London swam straight out of that textbook too. Don’t know if yun hao swam with Dennis
Brett Hawke agrees with you
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C-Gowv2ykco/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
He’s an ass and an outcast from the serious swimming community. I view his skepticism as a check mark in Pans favor.