I also don’t know how you change the rule, other then removing this particular sub in/out process entirely. I don’t know that you could necessarily add rules of how/why an athlete gets quickly subbed out, and/or validation of why they subbed out so quickly (while we all know what they were doing). So it would seem to just essentially remove that protocol as the fairest fair play move. I don’t know what the rationale would be for those who wanted to keep it other than these instances of gamesmanship of the rules.
thats a chicken or egg question ie by and large the French and germans behave themselves.
so why not calling out the ones (again in my opinion and I have certainly not done a serious fact check) bent the rules the most
and I guess its ok if there is some some chance play to around and overall its better than t100 which is less transparent.
you could say like with jokers for athletes not turning up to races , you give each nation a few jokers to substitute athletes each year. which they can use wisely. (using a similar distribution system than for the not turning up jokers)
GJ just announced she’s creating (with help of sponsors and USAT Foundation) $35k worth of scholarships to help the next generation of junior triathletes.
This was also done in GJ 1.0 roughly 10 years ago, can’t remember the exact amount, but cool to see.
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First and second of all, a sense of humour is invariably a good thing and I am not a Brit Tri player in this game. @SheridanTris knows far far more.
I suggest if you want to call out a fed for “f.ck[ing] around with entry lists” then worth understanding this in detail AND “do[ing] a serious fact check” or at least giving clear named examples of where BritTri (or other fed) has erred (iyho).
The first published start list is a WiP: everyone understands that. And if feds have sufficient athletes well up in the rankings to ‘earn’ the max quota then, start from there, sub promptly (Yee vanished in 2 hours for example). For all we know Yee said before London he might be interested in Hamburg so include me, but then his plans changed or this injury, or both.
Acccording to an USAT elite document, WT’s “Nomination Deadline” is generally 32 days prior to the event, though it can vary. So essentially just a few days prior to the initial start list is created is the deadline from the federations (and just before that from the athlete to the federation if that is the federation’s policy). So yeah BT “knew” Yee was injured and still registered him. I think that’s the “time waste” pk is talking about, again totally legal by the rules of the nomination procedures.
USAT athlete deadline is essentially 2 days prior to the WT nomination deadline.
Rules:
2.2. National Federations may include athletes in the waiting list at any moment;
2.3. Start list will be created the first Tuesday immediately prior before 30 days before the event,
So any athlete a fed wants on the initial start list, either really or as a placeholder, has to be nominated before the date driven by 2.3. Which can be between 31 and 37 days before the competition date.
But they had a good reason to register him. They wanted to substitute Connor Bentley. Connor’s ranking is not currently high enough to guarantee direct entry. This is well within the rules.
Yes I noted it’s all legal. But if we are having a conversation on the process, just don’t tell me that Yee was going to race, like Ajax was seeming reasoning. If you want to use that policy by means to do that. Great, but let’s also talk about potentially closing that “loop hole” to that process, if we think it’s worthy of a conversation to have.
IE if you are doing that for every race to get someone in an event that couldn’t, then maybe that’s worthy of talking about said policy. Again I don’t think anyone is saying it’s wrong, it’s all allowed by the rules. I think a discussion on maybe that shouldn’t be the rule or cap it to 1-2 times a year type of move. Not 1 per race that is the current rule.
So I think this would apply when @pk mentioned it as being a “time waste” move, like everyone knew he wasn’t going to race. They did it specificially to take advantage of a policy that allows it. So I think we can talk about is that a good policy? Again if you want to do this a handful of times a year, ok cool, isn’t that the procedure for all the other policies (jokers) or whatever that is part of it. This policy is allowed at every start list if they want to take advantage of it. So if your continously doing it to put in someone that otherwise wouldn’t make the start list, that might be a policy that you say “wait a minute”, right?
i have no idea what rule 2.2 has to do with this we are talking about people on the start list that finally wont race. and somewhat are used with the intention to block athletes
why do you think a pregnant athelte would want to be at the start list …
and again that athlete was not used as a placeholder and still at the start list on friday .
and no i would not consider it time wasting if yee was used as a placeholder and then taken off 2 hours when start list came out, that is good practise.
at the same time i can not remember the french ever using a placeholder for a world sereis race they are rather strict with that and hardly every use their quota.
i do remember the french messing with para start lists but never really at the elite lists. i did see lombardi at a euro cup starlist a while ago but i guess that might have acually been serious given that she was injured and might have wanted to do a smaller race.
the germans also dont really use placeholder and they make their atheltes go to africa cups to earn points . and they have a rather clear rule that the highest ranked athletes get the start for a race and very rarely do i see german atheltes being taken of the start list.
in fairness it appears to me you are trying to be akward ,when you have actually no idea, and i do value your content mostly.
ie they can take an athelte of the startlist before tuedasy if they cant race or change their mind something happens. so i have no idea what your intention of including rule 2.3 is
anyway i leave it here iam certainly interested to hear what other people think
but irrelvant rules ,not really
That is a very good assessment. A lot of people don’t realise what goes on behind the scenes.
Athletes have to nominate their availability to their federation around 40 - 50 days before the race. Various decisions are made around who is nominated and who is placed on the start list as a holding position. 32 - 35 days out, top ranked athletes are confirmed and the entry list is then visible. That opens up a very small window where an athlete is swapped in. After that the wait list opens up and that controls who drops onto the start list, not the federation.
Connors World Ranking is 83 but he hasn’t got a WTCS ranking hence he doesn’t make the start list on his own.
Just as an aside, I saw Jeanne Lehair running on an Alter-G treadmill. Is she injured?
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Who is pregnant and on the start list?
the world ranking is used for world sereis entries , the wtcs ranking has nothing to do with it .
The timing of this instance though it’s clear BT was nominating an athlete who was going to be injured and not race. Again by the rules of the sub in rules, no harm no foul. But they essentially did it (apparently the same with the pregnant athlete), knowing they were doing it to only use the sub in rule. So I think if we are talking about policies, that sorta seems like a weird rule. And to be eligible to do that every race, as was noted, there’s not many federations that do that. I think USAT’s policy seems to be based entirely on the athlete nominating themselves, so if the don’t self nominate, they aren’t really going to be able to use this sub in policy; and other federations seemingly behave more similiar. IE what is the purpose of the rule?
i mean there is a few purposes of the rule one could argue, one you want to give a younger athlete exposure at a higher level or to get into a race without a world ranking . you would want an good athlete that was long term injured a chance not to go through the slog to do african cups etc , you might want to use and athlete for a relay that does not have the points and let them do the signle and the relay race.
so i think overall it does make sense to have a few expectations but i think they should be more limited than what they are now.
and in para tri there can be quite a bit of blocking atheltes out of races and again the feds should be given less chance to do so.
Its often used as a way to fast track a talented athlete into the races without wasting a year + doing conti cups and world cups to get their ranking up. I feel it is a bit unfair when used at the conti cup level when there are big wait lists and feds use it to get their maximum number sthletes in when others are blocked because their country don’t play that game.
I included Rule 2.2 because feds have to get athletes on the Waiting List - ie nominate them. The start list is constructed from the waiting list. Obviously athletes who don’t get on the initial list stay on the waiting list.
Wrt the French, I note that both Bergere and Le Corre were on the initial list but they aren’t now. Whether that meets your ‘messing about’ threshold I know not.
I quoted Rule 2.3 to explain the timelines for nomination by feds: to answer @BDoughtie 's question.
So let me add, we are kinda over analyzing for the sake of over analyzying but what the hell. The timeline though doesn’t match your theory to include Yee any other way than to use him to sub him out so they can fast track an athlete who may not have gotten in otherwise. So again all fair play. He may have told BT 6 months or even 3 months ago Hamburg would be his “return” to triathlon, but the injury timeline was well announced before there were any deadlines. IE BT knew they were were going to sub him out immediately, and again all fair play.
@chrisb12 are conti cups becoming that competitive these days that athletes can’t get on start lists at the CC level? Shockingly here in the US I dont even think we have but 1 CC, although I think starting next year we’ll have maybe a CC or WC at the olympic venue course to get some practice runes likely. At min they’ll obviously likely have the test event in '27. So next year would be a practice run to the test event likely. They did have a 3 or 4 year run of CC cups on the supposed location in Long Beach, which all turned out to be shit CC only worthy courses. Remains to be seen how they’ll create a quality course in Venice Beach, I guess they could go with a 20 turn crit style course to sprint/turn/sprint/turn type of “technical” course, but other than that I just don’t see how it’ll be anything but “meh”. Need to somehow be wrong hopefully.
Yes some of the european conti cups have wait listed athletes. Have seen huge lists waiting for starts
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It is the French military championships this weekend and they both normally prioritise that race into their schedule.
I can’t see the whole start list for that race but they aren’t appearing in the publicity. French Federation doesn’t normally mess around with start lists, normally they nominate their top athletes and leave the rest off the start line.
It is an easy year post Olympics so maybe they are starting their development cycle for LA28?
That doesn’t make sense then because Connor Bentley would have had a high enough ranking to make his own way onto the start line. There would have been no need to substitute him for Yee.