IRONMAN Puts Draft Zones to the Test With Race Ranger and Aero Expert Marc Graveline

Along this lines, here’s what I was thinking about.

Ironman claims to be a “non-draft legal” bike.

We, of course, know this is an inaccurate statement. We know draft benefits exist at 2m, 10m, 12m, and 20m. To your point, if they try and move it to 50m to remove all draft potential, the race sucks. They won’t do that.

So in reality, Ironman isn’t trying to be “non-draft legal,” but instead, they should be trying to decide what the acceptable level of draft is that they and the pros are willing to tolerate on the bike. Currently the pros really seem to be saying “12m allows too much draft…” but is the right answer 18 or 20 or 22?

That’s what Ironman should be figuring out.

1 Like

I’m sure you are aware that pros say things in every sport about the rules that they want changed for one reason or another (or get upset when the rules get changes for one reason or another).

The race is more interesting to watch when there are more athletes in the frame. If you don’t think so, just imagine a run race where everyone was spaced out at 20m and had to maintain that gap when passing, etc. Not saying anyone is arguing that, but it would be visually the dumbest thing ever to watch.

Now, reverse it and look at a running race where everyone is shoulder to shoulder. Battling to the finish line. Way more exciting?

Ok, now do the same thing with the swim. Imagine a 20m gap between each swimmer. Boring as hell right?

So on an entertainment perspective alone, we can agree with putting more athletes together inside the “frame” of the camera is more exciting right? The issue is the benefit from the draft.

Well there is a swim draft, but we mostly ignore that because the swim is the shortest leg of the race and we feel it can be overcome with a good bike/run.

The run, we ignore, because it’s really marginal, and besides, we are actually happy if guys somehow manage to get off the bike and run shoulder to shoulder.

The question to ask is – does the difference of an occasional 0w, occasional 10w, occasional 15w that occasionally occurs from from 12 to 20m make it more exciting? How so, when we just established that everything is way more boring if you stretch out the group? I’m just not seeing it, and I think this is an example of pros arguing for rearranging the furniture in the living room.

We have clear cases of the best talent in the world racing 20m and the races were not any more exciting on account of it. Often I’m more board on the bike and just skip to the run anyway after watching a few bits here and there if it’s not live.

3 Likes

Certainly Ironman can take the stance that it can set its own rules. That’s their de facto position now.

The problem is they are not a monopoly like the NBA or NFL, and they face the challenge of what Roth and T100 are doing and the response from the athletes.

Even then, in every sport, rules are reviewed and annually and changes are made to adjust for changes in the games. Those rules are typically negotiated between the leagues and their player unions. Not just unilateral changes.

This is a big “Whomp Whomp” My opinion is that this test as a whole was so poorly done that Ironman really isnt taking this serious and they are just doing it to save face…

This is not a dig on @marcag as Im sure he did a good job and was probably working within their lame budget.. But when you have millions of dollars a year of prize money on the line and that you are “Testing “ for fairness and you do 2 days of testing for such a “HOT topic” at the moment. You are simply not taking things serious when it comes to figuring out the details…You have athletes that are doing more aero testing then this for personal reasons..

CLARITY….. I do need to point out.. That the thing I think was “poorly done”. Is the amount of testing that have been completed. I simply want to see more tests.. ( which they have said they might do )

1 Like

I’ll have to argue against “more athletes in the frame mean more excitement”. That is probably true to a degree, but I can think of several instances when I get most excited watching Tour de France is when there is an attack and 2 groups or 2 people are desperately fighting to reduce or increase the gap. True the excitement comes not from what i’m seeing on live but from the metrics saying what the gap is.

Similiarly, some time trial stages are exciting when everything is on the line.

From thos 2 exemples, I think the problem of “boredom” comes when everyone is evenly matched. Then they are all on the same screen but staying together. And that’s not really exciting. For exemple first half of a marathon when everyone is staying together… the fun happens when the breakup happens.

With triathlon, if we want to make it exciting on the bike, the only way is to provide accurate and live splits between people, and give camera angles when people start getting dropped or put in an attach (from back or front or overhead)

2 Likes

I applaud your use of influence in the triathlon chat space to get Riccitello to shed light on the testing, and indeed your previous interview with him on other ‘rules’. And you tried to get decent answers to key questions on the draft zone testing, with variable success. I have not been around long enough to know what an excellent athlete he was bitd: I’m sure he is a lovely man and father, but. I (and maybe you) inferred from his answers that the testing objectives and assumptions had had limited capable open mind collaborative construction. How much mature (but under 45) Pro athlete input/contribution was there, for example?

Results of a study are dependent on its Terms of Reference (maybe the TORs can be shared - surely not sensitive). I fear any decent data and insights gained during @margag et al’s work will be just noise and provide quantative info with which to ironmansplain why an extension of the draft will have minimal benefit. Riccitello was down in Tucson for the testing: great. I’d have hoped that Ironman also had an advocate for change there too, because unless I have the vibe wrong, Riccitello’s stance is ‘no change unless overwhelming reasons to change’: the no change decision is a slam dunk and the challenge is its presentation, having tried the ‘nothing to see here’ and the procrastination communication options. Probably best to get someone other than Riccitello to articulate that verbally.

On the entertainment aspect: 100%. But this is not what happens: the broadcast direction gives us interminable images of the lead athlete trolling along and sometimes coverage of the chasers individually. Often the race dynamic is lost because the camera spends inordinate time with a side view (clearly the easiest to obtain without providing moto draft). I, for one, shout into the void for the moto camera to swing round and show the line ahead to the front guy and/or behind to show the gaps (or none) to those behind (if in sight). The rule of thumb should be to spend most broadcast time with more than one athlete in view: you know ‘racing’ with metrics on screen to show the gap and dGap/dt.

So (answering your Q at the end) I suggest an extension to 20m will have minimal effect on the entertainment aspect: there may be minor benefit because the packs/line will be smaller and easy to offer the cover described ^^. There will be more gaps (way >20m) for the moto to ‘slot in’ (contrast: see image in OP where the riders imm behind the motos are getting benefit from both the guy in front and the moto beside them).
With regard to athletes running together - highly desirable, but I’d like them to have ridden on a level (aero/draft) playing field, as much as possible - from a competitive athletic ‘fairness’ PoV. A 20m draft zone would make that more likely.

1 Like

Also, I love watching track cycling when they go one on one without drafting. Then all the excitemznt comes from watching the splits !

I actaully thin they should do some kind of event like this for 800m or 1500m or 5000m or 10 000m in running as I feel the speeds have become so important that the drafting effect impacts negatively on the championship races (no one dares run in front and it becomes a last 400m sprint race). Most people would say that would make it less interesting. I’m not so sure (at least not for the invested and knowledgeable fan :sweat_smile:)

While I completely agree, where I think you’ve gone wrong is defining the exception as the rule. On average, what I’m saying is true. There’s nothing preventing a breakaway 1-2 racer dynamic from happening at 12m if you’re talking about it happening in cycling at 0m. At a minimum it would happen at least as much if not more at 12m than 0m in cycling. And more over, can you point to all the excitement of this happening in the T100 at 20m where it wouldn’t have also been likely (even more so) to happen at 12m?

In the men’s field, it’s been Hayden Wilde, riding off and then running off. The finale run battle finish was more exciting, because you had all those guys running behind to see what the podium would look like. I can’t imagine it would have looked worse if it was 12m. Indeed, it would be an interesting thing to reimagine how the results might have played out at 12m. Not saying Hayden loses, but I assume the battles all would have been tighter.

But we can already see it won’t be level. A fast swim biker rides off the front never/rarely to benefit while we can see the athletes behind them have a wide variety of inequality of draft benefits.

As said: “level as much as possible”: a longer draft zone will mean a fast swim biker who rides off the front (eg Laidlow in 22, Knibb and LCB in 25) will have less of a disadvantage over an athlete who isn’t, who is therefore in a pack/train (eg the Norges in 22, Philipp/Matthews/Perterer in 25).
I have no idea what you’re trying to describe with “a wide variety of inequality of draft benefits”.

I understand you want the last word, but I was merely pointing out that I disagree with the statement “more athletes in the frame mean more excitement” and providing a few examples of why I disagree. I’m not trying to create a rule or argueing about race dynamics at 0m, 12m or 20m or whether racing in T100 was exciting or would it be more or less exciting at 12m.

They the alleged draft benefit will not be equal for everyone. Some sit in at places on the course where the benefit won’t be what people think it is. Others make passes in areas where the benefit could have been highest and vice versa. And their positions and bikes will have varying levels of optimization to get the most or less benefit.

This idea that sitting in saves 20 watts has this supposition that it will apply to the entire course when it’s more likely these supposed massive draft benefits are for a certain segment of race and most of the time they are fighting to stay relevant.

One piece of evidence .. There’s a reason why guys like Ben Kanute get on the bike in the front an get off much farther back in most races. I’m sure he wishes it was just as easy as a lot of people talk about it. (Not saying you are)

I’ve been following this thread for a bit and figured I’d finally jump in. :laughing:

We’ve talked about the 12m vs 20m draft debate on ProTriNews probably more than a little but reading through this discussion and then listening to the podcast honestly left me more confused than anything. Not because people here don’t care or aren’t informed, but because of what’s missing. No matter where you get your information either Scott DeRue on GTN, the head official or what ever jimmys title is on the Slowtwitch podcast, various media outlets debating logistics and complications not one of them has meaningfully asked the people this rule actually affects: the professional athletes.

We’ve heard executive opinions. We’ve heard officiating perspectives. We’ve heard media speculation. But somehow the athletes the ones whose income, careers, and race outcomes are directly impacted are absent from the conversation….

A question I keep seeing is, “Well why don’t the athletes speak up?” The answer is pretty simple. Under the IRONMAN Professional Athlete Code of Conduct (Article 3), public discussion of drafting or blocking penalties — including comments to media or discussions at race venues — can result in disqualification, suspension, or loss of IRONMAN Pro Membership. So yes, athletes are quite literally discouraged from publicly voicing opinions on the very rules governing their livelihood.

Which makes it strange to repeatedly hear that “athletes don’t want this” or “they don’t understand what they’re asking for.” Some of the arguments on the podcast honestly made me laugh not out of disrespect, but because they don’t align with reality on the racecourse. The idea that a 12m race suddenly creates massive 1015-person packs that become impossible to pass just isn’t supported by actual race data. I’d challenge anyone to find a single IRONMAN or 70.3 race run at 12m where you see sustained packs larger than ~15 athletes. You won’t find it.

At the 70.3 World Championship, 22 athletes exited the water within roughly 30 seconds. By 35km into the bike, that had already broken into a front group of 10 and a second group of 9 at 12 meters. This is how races naturally self-select when enforcement is consistent. What’s frustrating is listening to non-athletes explain pack dynamics to people who actually race at this level, while those athletes aren’t even allowed to publicly respond without risking penalties.

One person who has actually done the due diligence is @marcag Alot of the top pro’s we’ve spoken to has told us the same thing: he was the first person to reach out and ask how these rules affect them, how races feel, and what they believe would improve fairness. That shouldn’t be rare but somehow it is. I do know @E_DUB reached out to Sam Long before this podcast, but even Sam was confused by Erics anwsers and talking about Sam on this podcast and coming from behind and making it harder.

For context, ProTriNews recently conducted a survey. There were 356 total responses from Professional athletes, 182 of which have already competed in a professional triathlon, where the draft distance was 20-meters. Of those 182 athletes, 91.8% said they prefer a 20-meter draft zone. These aren’t hypothetical opinions. Many of these athletes have raced under both distances. They know exactly what they’re supporting despite claims that they “don’t understand the consequences” or “why would pros want to elongate the amount of distance to pass.”

I was also present at the recent test. I wasn’t invited haha but I showed up and watched. I saw how it was handled, and how quickly opinions shifted once pressure and data entered the room. This week is going to be important. IRONMAN’s corporate team in Tampa is reviewing the test data, athletes are beginning to speak publicly despite the risk, and for the first time, people are going to see what athletes actually support not what others claim they support on their behalf.

Whether you agree with 12m or 20m is fine. Reasonable people can disagree. But it’s hard to take the conversation seriously when the group most affected is the least heard and sometimes actively silenced. If the media truly wants to serve the sport, the next step seems obvious: put athletes on the mic and let them speak for themselves. I think we will see some fireworks this week.

1 Like

@talbot I just want to understand…. Sam was confused by my “Answers”?
Also just to clarify I reached out to sam long after this (our podcast) to get his opinion on the whole situation because I wanted to hear from him personally..

And I agree that Athletes opinions should be heard. But that is usually your job. We do try to stay in our lane.

Although I have spoked to 2 of 5 of the riders and hope to talk to all of them. I do have an article coming out about this.. Which I do plan on telling the community what those athletes opinions are..

Thanks as always for stopping by and chiming in.

1 Like

I will text you some results from our survey, it’s pretty wild! Great job getting Jimmy on! Excited for the article this week is going to be a massive week for 12 vs 20 debate. Wait until Thursday for your article to go live! :wink:

At the end of the day Talbot, there is a fairly easy solution for the athletes. Vote with your feet, which they haven’t really done so far. If all the top dogs in 2026 decide to race T100 predominantly and say it’s because of the 20m rule, it’ll pretty much force Ironman’s hand.

Sam Long posted on IG suggesting a 20M draft zone and it would “open up” his race options.

Yeah but he also suggested he was doing the series regardless, so… it’s as if he was talking to @Diabolo’s point.

I think he means there are specific IM races he would consider if they went to 20m

Yes, exactly. But he’s doing the IM Pro series even with the current 12m rule, thus voting with his feet. (Which is fine.)