Capitalism is a bitch. More more more$

Plenty of suckers to sell bling too. Anyone can look the look. Buy a new $20k setup and be the enve in your small pond.

Have our bikes weighed before the race, open entering transition. Have the weight of our bike, in minutes, subtracted from our race time.

Ok, that was a light hearted joke. But when triathlon was big in our area in the beginning, transition was full of 40 pound Schwinns, etc, and they still looked like the fancy bikes the rich kids had.

We are also not going to grow the sport, when entry fees double and triple etc the local half and full marathons, that is the biggest gateway drug to triathlon. I can race an entire local running season, for the cost of one Ironman. And what the hell? I gotta join an insurance org to race? The running folks laugh at stuff like that.

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Athlinks / Strava

Running is in decline too.

Agreed. Very tough to grow triathlon, when the feeder sports are declining as well.

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Athlinks / Strava

All fair points. But can our triathlon media do more like articles on

1. My first day of open water swimming what should I expect

2. What is the longest run I need to do in my life to finish a sprint tri. If I can jog 4-5 laps around a track can I finish a sprint tri

3. Can I do a triathlon with my hybrid commuter bike or a mountain bike ?

4. Do I need to buy a wetsuit to do a triathlon or can I just get by doing all sports in regular shorts ?

5. Will me $20 Walmart helmet work? I see all these $400 helmets online ?

6. Do I need special running shoes or are my cross fit gym shoes OK?

7. Can I just pin my race number to a T-shirt. Or do I cut the elastic off some old underwear pin number on that and step into that after the swim

8. Do they stop the time in transition or do they time me changing? Should I practice changing ? How do I remember where my bike is in 200 bikes?

9. How do I stop my goggles from fogging up?

10. Why does no one have hair on their bodies ? Are they aliens or does your hair fall off after swimming in open water sludge?

Ok maybe I am being a bit extreme but where are the first timer guides to build thru the winter to their first race in the spring ?

Glad to help with some of this when I am retired, but the people working in the media today could balance off some of the pointy end topics with more entry level topics too. Entry level grows the sport, pointy end stuff inspires

You're not getting Enve on a $20k bike. Reynolds maybe. But it's more like £25-30k with Enve wheels and front end
🤪

Right when I was getting into this sport, Canyon was doing a lot of paid media in Men's Health and GQ and pushing their low end models and the myth that because they cut out the LBS from the chain they were cheaper. I think the model and this was like 2016 when I still had GQ, they said the Ultimate CF SL in the reviews was 1400. When I went to go to the website and check it out, it was 1800. (Current price is 2400). They now have a cheaper road bike in the endurance 6 at 1500. Which is great of course. I had looked at a Canyon in 2017 for my first tri bike, don't remember what the CF (oh and I also hate their nomenclature) was and it was still over 3k.

My first tri-bike was a Trinity Advanced, list price was 1800. Now the list price for the same exact bike is 2600. Nothing has changed about that bike. It's a rim brake bike with no extra add-ons. Now, the higher end you go with the Trinity, the more you get. Especially if a woman, the Liv Avow packages are pretty amazing.

But yeah, the magazines do us no favors by only reviewing the ferrari of the line and not the Chevrolet Sparq of the line. Perhaps Slowtwitch should lead the way and only review entry level bikes?

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

The high end reviews are fine, But I see an opening for slowtwitch to have a beginner's oriented series...gear, training, prep, planning, how to etc etc.

The top of the pyramid will die without the pyramid building locally. We may be missing a bunch of Chrissie Wellingtons or Lucy Charleses who just want to do something for fitness!!!

Is ST easy to find for a “beginner”. I don’t know exactly how I found it in sept of 08. I had been doing tri for 6 months before I found it. I guess search engines are much easier these days but Ive never thought ST was “beginner friendly”, in the forum or the articles. I think back then “beginner triathlete” forum was around (I have no clue if said website is even around haven’t visited it for probably 10+ years).

ST has its place in the sport no doubt. I thought it’s more “boys club” type of vibe/feeling much more than “welcoming”.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I think the media consumed has changed…the GCNs,GMBNs,GTNs do a great job answering exactly those hypotheticals you pose AND show all the sexy stuff in 4K quality.

Personally I'd expect a specialised magazine to be aimed at the more serious people rather than a gateway for beginners.

As said above there is plenty of online media with more beginner friendly triathlon content. However, even there idea of "budget" bikes/tech can be on the high side.

Triathlon is a crazy expensive sport. The problem is that expensive gear does work, so anyone that can't afford it is putting themselves at a disadvantage. I don't see how you can fix that now.

Cost and time are certainly big barriers for entry. Also I think there are now many other attractive non-tri alternatives for many people. For example, those that want a crazy physical challenge can do ultras and long distance bikepacking races. A few of my friends are doing a couple of weeks cycle touring through Europe rather than any races.

Also, while I wouldn't consider them the same as a true big race feel, zwift and park runs mean people can "race" multiple times a week. I'm sure for some that's enough competition without the additional costs and travel.

The very early Taren videos (prior to him selling out and becoming a shill) did a decent job of answering some of these beginner question and made it easy to start. Unfortunately he got lost and no one took up that place.

GCN does a great job...That Triathlon Life's podcast is solid too for making it seem obtainable, but the idea of showing up and using what you have is rarely championed. We have a great bit insanely expensive sport. I am in a high income bracket and I find it nuts...I can't imagine someone that makes 45k a year being able to pull it off outside of local racing. Travel, hotels and entry fees alone cost me almost 3500 for IM Maryland, worth every penny but a super selfish 3500 3 night stay lol.

Thanks for posting this, Cyclists & triathletes are generally tone deaf and ignorant when it comes to cost as they can afford it. They don't think about accessibility, sustainability and longevity.

Triathlon is in decline, cycling as a sport is filled with 20 K plus bikes almost as a standard on our club nights. No one seems to care our average age is 35 plus. We have a small number of 20's mainly those who hung about and are having a go at being pro.

Our juniors, maybe 5 to ten at best, these are all funded by their rich dads who vicariously pushed their kids into the sport. When they are 15 to 20 their dads are putting them on S-works level bikes.

Newbies don't persist in that elitist environment, then add culture, in tri and bike, that is exclusive rather than inclusive. All this in the face of a WC where the kids hero, Messi won a World Cup. My kids and everyone elses is running around in a football top, $70 kicking a PSG or WC ball, $60.

Cheapest Canyon road bike 3300 Aud
At least polygon have bikes under 3000.

Triathlon adds in the arms race of aero wheels, bikes, wet suits, carbon run shoes. That's before you consider that in USA, Aus, Uk most peopel come to multisport after having played a real sport, football, basketball etc.

We should be revieiwng Polygon and other manufacturers who make affordable stuff which increases accessibility and sustainability of the sport. We should review the exotics like most car mags did, once a year as a fascinating look at what rich people buy.

This sounds like Isabel King!

“I never fit in in the tri world, it was so mid-life crisis, so ‘aero is everything'”

SO mid-life crisis lmao

https://www.velonews.com/...nbound-gravel-glory/

I don't disagree in general, but when it came time to review an "entry level bike", and that was before supplements, magic brain illuminators and everything, he did exactly what Triathlon Magazine Canada did now - voted with his sponsorship contract.

The "entry level" bike "reviewed" by Taren was a $3500 Ventum, and he didn't even mention the possibility that this was nothing like an entry level price.

I do also agree that GTN are amazing at those beginner videos. Sometimes when I stumble upon one, I catch myself questioning how they oversimplify things and make sweeping generalizations. But that's exactly what beginners need in order to be drawn to the sport.

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

About 5/6 years ago I said I thought Triathlon was going to become a sport for the rich/privileged and wasn’t going to attract the next generation of new comers. I got shot out of the water BIG TIME.

AUS Tri have lost 11% of their membership in the past 12 months and 50% over the last 5 years. GB Tri no longer declares their membership numbers so I would imagine a similar pattern. A lot of races that were sold out as soon as entries opened now have places available up to deadline.

The sport is in decline at all levels. Some tri mags have an article once a year on entry level equipment or have a focus on new members in the off season but generally 99% is aimed at the high end. It goes beyond the magazines.

How many times have group rides done their best to drop the newbie to put him in his place? As long as that mentality exists the sport will continue to decline.

Is N America that expensive? Or are you picking luxurious options (e.g. top end hotel, business flights etc.)

For comparison I'm based in UK and doing a week cycle holiday in Southern Spain next month:
Flights - $240 (including bike carriage)
Hotel - $300 (basic, but includes things like small pool, WiFi, breakfast buffet etc.)
Granted I have add lunch and dinners onto that, but even so a week holiday is definitely under $1000, perhaps even similar to just IM Maryland entrance fee.

My brother just booked a ski holiday. $1200 for a week trip in a catered chalet including flights, transfers, lift pass, and ski rental.

A package trip (flights, transfers, nice all inclusive hotel) for a week in Lanzarote can easily be picked up for $850 per person. (Would have to add bike carriage or rental on top).

So the idea that a 3 day trip could be $3000+ is pretty mind boggling to me.

Flights for my wife and I, refundable main cabin (450 cdn each) 900 cdn total

The host hotel in Maryland, 325 usd/night(400 cdn per night) 1200 cdn total

Car rental 250 usd for 3 nights (300 cdn)

Registration was 700 usd (950 cdn)

Gets me to 3500 cdn rather easy. The only "splurge" was the host hotel, most rentals in Maryland were insanely expensive and this being my first IM, I wanted to be sure I knew the logistics were ok.

I am Canadian so I pay a premium due to a weak dollar.

.
There isn't any reason that I would pay $325USD per night for a hotel room at a race anywhere in the world.

So this imo is the issue. In 1 sentence you go from describing local races to IM cost issues. Guess what? If you come into the sport and decide after 2 events to do an IM that’s a YOU problem, if you catch the IM bug after finishing your 1st race that’s on YOU. There is nothing wrong with sticking to local races. But it always seems like the conversation goes from local starts to IM events quickly. But whose fault is that?

Because I’m willing to bet that although many local races are drying up, the answer doesn’t have to be to go from the least expensive race to the most expensive race like that. Go race local races and add in some big boy events. I’m guessing lots of places have that ability we just a lot of times choose not to do it that way. Since the IM is going to cost $4k we’ll skip everything else.

But general the person’s ego/desire/pressure gets them to IM type of events as fast as they can. And sometimes that’s a you problem. Sometimes that decision is what makes it expensive when it doesn’t have to be that way. So as much as we want to blame the sport or IM, let’s also put some blame on personal responsibility as well.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Right on the money.

I’ve gone from local, to IM, back to local. As with many others, my first full was IM-branded, as my ego wanted to hear the magic words as I crossed the finish line. But now I simply won’t pay their entry fee when I can race the same distance for a third of the cost by choosing a local event instead.

Because it was my mindset, I understand others’ egos making them pick branded fulls, but I’ll never really understand it at 70.3 unless you’re looking for Worlds qualification. Most in my club self-support on the bike, so all they’re really getting from their £350(+) is closed roads. Stay local, support smaller races, make the sport cheaper for yourself.

I wasn't complaining, I was staying the obvious. I can afford it, I was simply pointing out that that the media focus is on IM.

And for the record I raced local for 13 years before doing IM when my kids were old enough to not miss me when I was training, and I had the financial freedom do it. This year I did Chattanooga 70.3, IM Maryland, 2 local gravel races, a local sprint and the Detroit marathon. I would not advocate anyone doing IM after 1-2 years in the sport, anymore than I recommend someone goes to full marathon before they break 30 minutes in a 5 km.

The focus on long distance and IM in most forums, magazines, websites vs the focus on a patient path to IM contributes to the IM craze and overall view of unaffordability of triathlon.

Right but it’s still on you as an individual to make personal decisions. So if you choose to buy an entry level bike for $3k vs going the used market, I can’t really understand why you’re then complaining about the costs?

IM does a hell of a good job for the most part. But you are certainly going to pay for that. The local race “experience” sucks for many many races other than an opportunity to just race/finish an event. So we as a sport no longer wants to simply test ourselves. That’s essentially the problem, we want the bling, we want the pomp and circumstance and that basically can only be afforded w IM events when 3k pay for it. Notice what events have the best chance for closed roads? It’s IM events and even then many races are open roads.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I used to organize a group ride where we gave out points and the biggest climbs where in the first half of the ride. The first few climbs we had penalty points for first to the top and bonus points for last to the top. It kept the group ride together for the entire first half. The second half and sprints with regroup points but as the second half was net downhill, it allowed for the FOP people to get some good intervals in, while the longer net downhills allowed for the less strong riders to catch up and stay "attached" during the downhill regroups !!!

But I don't think the phenonon of dropping new riders is anything new. This was there in 1985 when I did my first group rides with the local roadie group (fortunately I had a big enough engine from runnning....did the 1.5 miles in military at 7:08 so 4:40ish miler pace, so kind of hard to drop me on hills due to engine)....it was like that during 90's, 2000s, 2010s and today. Unlike running or swimming where strong athletes are comfortable in their skin because a new rider can't just show up and keep up with top people, that is not the case for biking....riders like Lance, Ritchie Porte, Cam Wurf etc etc etc can come out of other sports, do a few pedal rev's and be up near the top cyclists....so there is an inherent insecurity that fast cyclists have because a good athletes with a solid engine from another sport can quickly become fast at cycling.

Locally, one of my buddies took our Israel premier tech cyclist Michael Woods out when he was an injured 3:50ish miler. Mike climbed the local climb in running shoes and rat traps faster than anyone we knew about, but off his run training and youth hockey.

If you are a big engine newbie you survive the baptism from the local studs and generally put them in their place shortly (I am sure Lucy Charles would have done that too). But if you're an average engine person, that "baptism" culture that exists on the bike pretty well everywhere, can be a tough one to overcome....but that's not a 2022 sport decline problem

I get the impression that you are very US blinkered and you don’t have an international perspective.

In Europe most triathlons are on closed roads, even if it is a small local event it will be on one way closed roads.

It is Christmas chill with the aggression regarding people making choices towards IM. I am not a fan of them but just because someone chooses to race IM doesn’t mean they have an ego.

The sports participation decline is multi-faceted and blaming someone for racing IM isn’t productive.

Does looking at and seeing $15k bike reviews say more about you and the circle that you traverse than anything about how we grow the sport? You've been in the sport for awhile. You have an eye on bike porn and immerse yourself in that world more than a newbie looking at the sport.

How many people looking to come into the sport read Triathlon Magazine Canada or take time to google $15k bike reviews?

When I started the sport in 2008, there were bikes in the $7k+ and wheelsets in the $2k ranges. I read reviews for none of them. I paid attention to none of them. Instead, I looked at bikes and bike reviews in my price range ($1,500 or less). I didn't subscribe or read any bikes or triathlon magazine. I think the newbies that happen to pick up a free copy of Triathlon Magazine Canada off of a table does the same thing I do when I see a Lamborghini advertisement in a car review magazine. We notice it, say that's nice and out of my price range, and move onto the Toyota price range cars. We don't say to ourselves when we see a Lamborghini review or advertisement, "hmm, cars are too expensive these days. I think I'm going to look to public transport or scooters instead." We just move on until we see cheaper cars/bikes ... because there are still plenty of those around

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__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."

In the 1980s windsurfing was a huge growth sport. By the mid-90s it was dead, especially in the US. The big brands got so focused on the extreme aspects that normal sailors could not use the expensive equipment the way it was shown in the magazines. And then came kiting, which is easier to learn and easier on the body than windsurfing. The sport had a recovery (never to the size of the glory years) when Starboard innovated with easy to sail wide boards. There is another growth spurt in water sports happening now with foiling, especially wingfoiling, which is very simple compared to windsurfing and kiting.

Triathlon could learn from this - simple, cheap, fun, and easy will always beat expensive and hard in the market for new users.

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Andrew Inkpen

Exactly. It’s far more interesting for the mag to feature the shiniest most expensive toy and hope it catches the eye of a few. That doesn’t mean everyone expects to buy that offering. I don’t understand why most in this forum seem to think this concept is unique to cycling/tri.

Fair point. I actually don't look for expensive bikes EVER.

I was generally commenting about what Triathlon Magazine Canada had in their packaging which was high end everything, nothing about local racing, all about Ironman.

To be fair, when I started in the sport we actually read what was in these magazines to learn about the sport, or get inspired by professional racing, but that was the only source of information. Now we have all kinds of other sources of info on the internet, that what is in print is likely meaningless, so I see your point.

But does print and online media have any role to also promote the angles of entry level, local racing etc? Does it all need to be Ironman and high end stuff? Because eventually we have no one buying high end and doing Ironman if we don't get entry people in doing local racing. Then the sport dies a slow death from the 40-59 year olds retiring from the sport.

In Spain triathlon is mainly practised by men in the middle of their 40 y o crisis that have enough money to spend it in the gear. Manufacturers and race organicers know it so they milk the cow. The other segments of clients are not profitable.

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Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P

You are missing the point. I'm not blaming the person racing IM. I'm saying that you made the choice to race the IM for whatever reason. I'm saying instead of blaming the price of a bike or the price of IM event, let's look at ourselves first and foremost and say "well we are making that choice". For example, how is it that you can race on a cheaper bike for your 1st event, but then suddenly you get into the sport and all jazzed up....why is that not good enough suddenly? Why does the person want to invest more in the sport with better equipment? They don't have too by any means. They are WANTING too. That's the point I'm making. That's the part in this that I want to recognize, that if we are talking about a multi faceted issue, sometimes it's looking in the mirror. and saying you know what I actually have the decision making power in this situation.

So you. missed my point completely, I'm not blaming anyone. I'm saying take personal responsibility for your own personal decisions.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I just rewind back thru my journey and always raced local first but also done several half and full IMs per year. But IM racing is not the be all and end all. Also just went thru all my bikes and upto this year never spent more than $2K CAD on a single bike and no more than $800 on wheels. Only this year I blew thru and spend $2400 on a second hand P3. Along the way raced 3x Kona and 6x 70.3 world's on no where close to top of line gear. Mainly second hand 'fast enough'.

But I don't think the media shares any ideas on what gear which is out there that is fast enough to not hold you back that you can't get on local podiums with enough work.

Kind of related to your post is I think athletes who treat Ironman (and 70.3) as the pinnacle or end-all be-all of the sport doesn't help.

I remember when I got into tri 15-ish years ago. There was a local guy who was a huge tri nut - one of the most visible triathletes in the community. Always talking about tris, training, everyone knew has into tri's, etc. He'd do a couple full IM and a half each year but never, ever did the local spring tri (or any of the trips in nearby cities). It was never a scheduling issue as he would often time go and mill around on race day.

Fast forward to now and we've got a fairly healthy tri community here (when taking into consideration the overall health of the sport). A few decent sized clubs, a good turnout at the morning tai-masters swim, etc. But there are a number of individuals - guys and gals who have been in the sport for years who hang their whole identity on being a triathlete - who never, ever race any of the half-dozen-ish local sprint and olympic tri's in our area. But they are traveling around the country doing a half dozen IM branded events each year. I follow them on Strava so I can see that they are in town during a lot of these races. They just choose to go ride zone 2 or whatever for 3 hours instead.

While I don't begrudge them for their choices, I do think it sends the 'wrong' message when you've got a bunch of the most tenured/dedicated/well-known triathletes in the area and they are not doing these local races. Newbies see this and start to think that these local sprint an olympic races are just for beginners and they need to chase the holy grail of IM races like these vets are doing. Then they do their race, realize they don't want to keep committing all the time/effort/money into 70.3 and 140.6 racing and leave the sport.

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Matt

Something happened that showcased supply and demand to a T. During covid, you know what almost became extinct for bike companies? The tri bike

That thing was cut from the production line from many companies? Why? Because races suddenly went away so the "consumer need" for a new shiny toy suddenly changed.

I think if we as a collective felt powerful enough, there could be change. It was interesting to see that WT just banned certain aspects of the "super shoe", so that suddenly it isn't just a free for all. Small steps like that are good for the sport.

I still think one of the biggest issues with triathlon that it's so damn "numbers" oriented. Like federations freaks out when their numbers drop, but it's like what if the person just took a 2 year break from racing? Like what if they just trained for the health/lifestyle of it and skipped racing? That it's somehow doom and gloom because that person can't be accounted for anymore. We always have to account for something yet maybe that person is doing it the best way for actual true life long term health sustainability.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

So here in the US, we have collegiate sports that just opened up the ability for college athletes to get paid to play (NIL). It's gotten to the point in just 2 years that it's "out of control". You listen to any talk radio or anyone in the sports industry and it's "crazy". The term I keep hearing though "you can't put the toothpaste back into the tube". Meaning in order to fix it, we aint going back to the old way of doing it. So what then is the solution?

That is kinda where we are as a sport. But one thing that I see with the IM/Kona issue. I think they are getting a little too close to the fire with their race pricing. I'm 100% with them moving the WC around. I'm 100% against them for 1 gender only race championship. And in the fact of what they are charging and I think we are in a window where "things can change". I dont know that we'll necessarily go back to local grass roots only, but I think they are going to price point everyone out of that part of the sport. So that I think. we then have the best chance for the sport to go back to the "old days" where you just showed up and raced on whatever you had and that was that.

I actually think what is going to happen is that the sport is going to be dominated by the 70.3 distance in 10 years. That's my prediction. It's easier to train for, it's easier to race. It's "cheaper" (even though it's basically half the price of an full IM). It's easier to do on *less than ideal* equipment, etc. It's easier for "newbs" to do, etc. I think if the sport moves to that, then even the local races and be better suited because those races can have a chance to even put on their own half distance events and also more money can be spent on races/gear when you aren't spending the money on 1 event only, etc.

I've talked to a guy that has been to Kona 15 times as an athlete, and was the primary vendor for IM in Kona for 10+ years. That's what he thinks as well. "The biggest competitor to the IM distance is IM's very own 70.3 branded events".

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I raced in Spain once (Sprint Triatlon Benalmadena) and the people there were nothing like what you describe.

They weren’t slow either, most of them. Smallest percentage of overweight AGers I’ve seen in a race. But no IM-like superhuman pretense, regular gear, and a versatile age and gender structure. Also: no finisher medals (finally!), but a cool sleeveless included in the EUR 20 race fee.

In a word: substance over form. No dick swinging, just regular triathlon in the form of a smashfest. I was humbled in that race. Only my run went ok relative to the rest of the men’s field.

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

is the sport not already dominated by the 70.3 distance?

14 Ironman Races scheduled in North America for 2023. 43 70.3 Distance races scheduled in North America for 2023. And this is just WTC events.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

IMO no we aren't because we are still a very focused IM/Kona tri world. So that's why I think IM at the 140.6 is in trouble because eventually they will simply have priced out all their customers. They've basically done that now with anyone under 40 basically. So they aren't going to have anyone to backfill their races in 10 years because no one can afford it, and no one will have grown up in it; other than some "over priced" old dude event. So if you've priced out the under 40 crowd, then eventually there won't be the need/desire to have 14 NA IM branded events. You'll need 10 and then 6, etc. But the 70.3 distance will always be achievable and likely "price point" accessible, but it'll also allow more leeway in how people train and race. Right now local races are pinched out by the "I'm 10000% focused on IM AZ" that is costing me $5k. That athlete is so damn scared to veer off any path.

But take that option away and you suddenly create much more variety imo. That's the future, especially the prices IM is forcing on it's customers with IM specific events.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I hate to say it but I think the die is cast....so many things came together to kill the local race scene (Ironman, high tech emphasis, and expense along with many other factors) and I don't see how triathlon recovers...its destined to be a very small sport that is in the Olympics and therefore survives with a minimum of participants to keep it going.....

Dude, so like since you started triathlon this thing called google came around. That's where anyone under 50 is going to go first to get answers to each of your questions. New entrants to triathlon are not going to go find a magazine rack.

By the way, for many of your questions above, the first google search results are to articles in Triathlete magazine. See, e.g., this. Triathlete magazine might eventually require a subscription to Outside, but there were many other articles from other sources in the google search results.

Trinewbies still exists too.

I think beginner triathlon information is easily accessible for anyone with an interest -- sorting the good from the bad is another issue.

The best media for getting someone into triathlon (or anything) is face to face discussion. When someone expresses interest, be friendly, inviting, and helpful. My guess is that you, Dev, have been a great ambassador over the years.

A better thread might be, "have you brought someone into the sport of triathlon"

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________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

I go out of my way to try to do entry to mid-level bikes.

It’s part of our commitment to growing the sport—we owe it to cover the entire range, not just the high end of things.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

I keep hearing that both Triathlon and Cycling are in decline, and I dont know if its in the states or whatever, but here in Spain it has increased its popularity by A LOT in the past 5 years.

The amount of new people in the sports is growing, and you can see it because there are more and more clubs appearing, and before you said "triathlon" wherever and people was like WTF is that thing? We have tons of events and cycling events too that now get full when before they didnt. In fact the amount of cyclists has grown so much that you can go "safely" anywhere you want because you keep seeing cyclists everywhere, and a couple of years ago it was just a handful of "safe" routes for them. The amount of dedicated cyclist shops and bars also doubled or tripled. For running, in Barcelona city they had to actually start "banning" newer races because they just couldnt fit more into the calendar

One exception tho is Duathlons, the entry level is so damn high in terms of speed/paces that it totally discourages new people to try the sport. Its a bit counterintuitive, because they usually are short distance events, which in the first place it would be good for newcomers, but with those distances if you dont cycle over 40km/h or run faster than 3:30km/min you will end up at the end of the ranking, and noone that is outside of pro level would have that level. Add that you need very good biking skills for cornering and that the majority of participants are for clubs, and they you wonder why no new people sign up for these races and they get cancelled

About bikes, you can find a little bit of everything. In my club ( because its an small city lets say ) im one of the few with disc brakes, and there are tons of 5-10year old tri bikes with maybe 10spd groupsets for example, but go for the bigger cities or more elitist clubs close by and you will find top end bikes as well as entry level bikes

But the sport is as expensive as you want to make it. I mean, If you want to do long/half distance, expect to pay more than short/oli. And yeah you have to factor traveling, accomodation and whatever. There are local oli tris here that you can do for 50-75€ and its full of low entry leve bikes, but then dont expect super fancy aid stations, support or even "decent" routes. I did one half distance a few months ago where they forced us to through nearly gravel paths full of dirt/rocks/bumps and you could see plenty of people on the sides fixing flats and what not... also me being a MOP guy it was kinda depressing seeing the finish line almost being dismantled when 1/3 of the athletes were still finishing. Also there was almost a 1km T1 that didnt even have a carpet and went through dirt and people had to run barefoot. I dont know, id rather pay a bit more and have a better quality event than something I could just do on my own. People bitch a lot about Ironman but last year in the IM Barcelona I went to pick up my bike at 1am and there were just a couple of atheletes still running and all aid stations were completely full, plus a huge amount of people at the finish line. It doesnt feel right that slower people doesnt receive the same treatment or experience as the faster ones in some cheaper events I did...

Lastly, about being competitive. This is not exclusive to triathlon. In any sport or competition, if you want to be the top end, expect to spend big money on whatever you can find to help you. The thing is not everyone has to do it and not everyone NEEDS to do it. In fact one issue im seeing here in my area is that people is just SO DAMN competitive, theres not a lot of people willing to do triathlon just for fun, the challenge or visiting new places/meeting new people.

Ah, and I know quite a few of Junior level cyclists/triathletes that are growing into the sport ( some of them very capable of becoming pros ) and they dont have superbikes either, they have very low level entry bikes and yet they exceed. I only know one guy that is riding a 16k bike ( with disc wheel included ) but just because his father does triathlon for years and he can share the bike with him

I am going to be controversial and say the rich folk who actually bother to show up to races with expensive kit are superior to folks bitching about cost and using it as a crutch for their non participation.

There are local non m-dot races you can do if entry fees are a lot.

Every sport has a cost silliness on the leading edge. Golf, $75 a case for balls versus $25. $3000 for clubs versus $500. Run shoes. Bikes. What about folks who can afford coaching?

The only thing keeping anyone from toeing the line is entry fees. You can use used and affordable kit.

It is weakness to be able to afford to race and refuse because you cannot own pro triathlete gear.

I have seen folks win local cross races on $500 old ass bikes, same with gravel. You can run fast in $60 shoes. Folks are too lazy to work on their bike fit to be aero instead of buying shit and if they cannot afford to buy shit just throw up their hands and say “ain’t fair I quit”.

I have a nice bike. It is worth probably $5k all in. But I can replicate the fit on a $500 bike with a round basebar and be within 10w probably at race speed.

I started out on a free dumpster find Felt DA that was someones carbon damaged trainer bitch. I carbon repaired it and used it for 2 or 3 years. All in like $500 in parts.

I despise this excuse when countries with kids growing up playing soccer with trash sock soccer balls smokes first world country kids who grew up with wealthy systems for their sports.

I could but Ganna on a freaking Craigslist $500 bike and he would still win a lot of flatter tt’s.

I contend it is a shift in people valuing their time in life and wanting hobbies where you can be OK with a lot less time input and lot less routine physical pain.

Yes, $18k bikes are absurd. But plenty of 7 year old tri bikes on CL for $1k or so that would be plenty fast.

In this photo there is probably a $10k spread in bike values and a 350w spread in ftp’s, but guess what? They didn’t bitch about it and they showed up. And look happy also.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/...night-smashed-232604

Fair point about Google but Google is not a content creator. Google is a content aggregator. Someone has to create the raw content in the first place.

And no need to be ageist....plenty of folks over 50 not just use Google but are also behind what Google brings to you (Bryn and Page both turn 50 shortly)

And if it is largely high end stuff then that sets the expectation and trend about what the sport is about.

We have an image problem that the sport is all about expensive Mdot events and expensive gear and someone who is coming over from swim or run can't be competitive without a massive capital outlay

My ageist and google comments were kinda poking fun -- I know you are in IT and are older (I'm guessing you are about same age as I). I just raced past cyclocross season as 60+ (by the rules, though I don't turn 60 till next year). Bryn and Page are still kids. But the point still is: I think the content is out there and accessible.

I agree with you about the expensive equipment. The triathlon bike was a brilliant sporting invention, but it put triathlon on a niche path. Back in the early 90s I competed in triathlon for several years before I even got aerobars. Simpler then.

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________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

Still, the reality in triathlon is that money helps - a lot. It can't be underestimated.

Comparing myself to my 3-year old prior self at nearing 50, I have almost equal FTP, slightly slowing on the run, and not dramatically faster on the swim, yet I'm performining a full 10 points higher on the USAT scores than my 3-year old self. And that jump didn't come slowly or incrementally, with 1-3 point USAT score gains, it was 8 points in a fell swoop and then small increments thereafter.

The main difference? Money. I was already on a pretty fast bike (Cervelo P2c with disc cover and 50mm flo front wheel) but upgraded it to faster skinsuit, faster Giro Aerohead, new bike+real disc wheel, slightly more aggressive position, and then for the other 2 I made investments in Nike Alphafly race shoes (as fast as aerobars in my case!) and a membership to a 'real' swim pool since my kid is older and i could finally have more time in the morning to swim. All these are $$$ investments, not fitness-performance gains, yet they made a giant difference for me. Like so big a difference that that 8-10 point difference is equal to all the gains I made in my first 6 years of triathlon combined (!!)

Money won't win you the race, and yes, I'm sure I could go out now with the knowledge and experience I have and do it 'on the cheap' with secondhand parts and come out 99-100% as fast as I am now, but you can't neglect the cost it took that experience.

I hate to say it, but money was the single highest yield performance builder I experienced since my first year of triathlon by upgrading essentially everything.

[quote devashish_paul
We have an image problem that the sport is all about expensive Mdot events and expensive gear and someone who is coming over from swim or run can't be competitive without a massive capital outlay[/quote].
.
I didn't realize how negatively not having a carbo party and awards night would affect the "vibe" of Ironman until I went to IMWA this month. The community spirit of the race has been replaced by segmented paid training groups and clubs who stay in their own little bubbles for the entire race week.

Don't get me wrong folks,it is a great race but from someone who went there by himself (as I have done to races all over the world for 30 years) the Ironman "community spirit" and inclusion is now sadly lacking.

^^^^^ exactly this!!! People are just looking for excuses. I have mates who complain they can't afford a 70.3 entry fee yet have no trouble drinking that much $ in alcohol over just a couple of weeks.

Like I said in the other thread the biggest problem is people misleading others that high end equipment makes a noticeable difference for the average age grouper.

For a average IM finisher the difference between a $500 bike and a $20,000 bike is probably about 10mins...so tell me more about how these expense bikes are making your 13:30 finish time so 'uncompetitive'...

Excellent observations. I started in '84, first IM was in '15.
Similar to 5k's, 8k's and 10k's. Everyone "has" to do a marathon.

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I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________

I have a 4 day (3 ski days) trip to Whistler coming up in January. Staying in a small, studio Airbnb, lift passes, travel (no flight, but a boat and 4 hour drive), and food will be around $2k. I have my own gear so no rentals. Doing a catered chalet would probably be a $10k+ week. A standard, 3 star hotel room with no breakfast is $400/night. A standard meal is around $80/person (we are talking an average beer, burger and fries type thing at a pub).

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Long Chile was a silly place.

For the actual off the couch "newb" triathlete, who is inspired by IM's coverage and "you can be an IM too", the single highest performance metric will be training. Consistent training whether with shit equipment or the best equipment from day 1 will improve their performance. So that means that if you just tri, your going to likely improve. Especially the athletes who truly are the run of the milll athletes who are using the sport to inspire themselves and others to live a healthy lifestyle. So the biggest performance metric for them will be healthy training.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

How much time has your new gear reduced your bike by for 70.3 or full and how much has your FTP increased?

That aside, like 99% of all finishers unless you are going top 10 does it really matter if you finish in 13:30 on cheap equipment, or 13:20 on expensive equipment?

The race is you against you...

For the actual "average" person coming into the sport....you arent buying your way into massive improvements. You just aren't. You arent running 12:00/mi and then buying nike super shoes and running 9:30/mi. You arent getting a $20k super bike and going from 15mph to 19.2mph. You are going to get 1.2mph faster type of "improvement" (which is a lot). Your not going to swim 2:10/100yd and buy a wetsuit and suddenly in ows in an non-downhill swim, swim 1:50/100yd paces. Like you arent going to buy yourself that type of improvements. Yes buying "free speed" is a real thing. There's no denying that. I'm with you though that a for the 1st time avg newb athlete coming into the sport, they aren't going to "buy" themselves into massive improvements. Like a truly average athlete is simply going to get faster by S-B-R training.

Whether running 12:00 min/mi or 11:42 min/mi, your limiter isn't going to be "I need to buy my way into improvements"....it will be "I need to train".

And also this idea that the avg person will get demotivated by all the great equipment when they are on their huffy so that'll keep them out of the sport long term....guess what, that person doenst give 2 fucks about your super bike. They will be smiling and likely a hell a lot more happy than half the people out there, and they don't give s shit about their AG finish. Just go to a local race and watch the last half hour of events. Those people are emotional about the race, they don't care about their equipment limitations.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Yeah, a 10 minute difference in 13 plus hours could be attributed to anything from a "problem" bladder to a bad attitude, a flat tire, etc., etc.

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I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________

I haven’t read through this thread to see if it’s been mentioned already, but this post made me immediately think of the tri-bundle packages that websites would sell when I get into the sport.

For $2000-2500 you’d see the bike, shoes, helmet, wetsuit, and a few others things in it for your first race. It made it seam reasonable and easy to know you were buying everything you’d need all at once.

After 12+ years of tri racing and another decade of running -

every minute counts! Even if you're not winning in any awards!

FTP is barely better than it was 7 years ago, maybe at best 15 watts on a good day, most of the time equal. Yet I now average 6 minutes legit faster than my 2.5 yr old prior self on every Oly course I've done in the past 2 years, and went from just having a top 20% bike split to being in the top 5 overall bike splits in these local (yet still quite competitive Norcal tris) in every race in the last 2 years. Even had the fastest one outright last year. So it's a huge improvement. My bike time improvement was the biggest factor in my USAT improvement for sure.

And does it feel good to kick my old self's behind - hell yes!!

In all seriousness though, even in these local races, the arms race on bike and now run gear is so fierce that if you're not using a TT bike with good aero optimization (race wheels, aero helmet,etc.) you almost have to put out pro-level watts to keep up with the guys in front if you are using a nonoptimized entry level road bike equivalent. And even if the run, if you're not using some sort of running supershoe, you're giving up 1-3 minutes against a well trained competitor who's using them effectively. Add these together and it's nearly impossible for even a highly trained AGer without the right gear to compete effectively (that would be my not-that-much younger self, who I now crush timewise, but am about equal fitnesswise.)

Again, I hate to say it, but money was a huge factor in my improvement, possibly THE major factor, as I trained pretty hard beforehand, and have barely increased my training volume in comparison.

But lets make sure we are discussing the same issue. What you seem to be bringing up with your n = 1 is how to maximize your ability in the sport. What we've been discussing is "participation" numbers. Your point isn't all that relevant imo with the 1st time adult average athlete getting Into the sport. They aren't going to be able to buy themselves that type of improvement except on the bike; especially if they are on a huffy/hybrid knobby tire style of bike. Hell changing to a slick tire would be an massive upgrade on a budget. There I just "super shoed" your huffy improvement for $100 bucks. So I think if we've all heard all the stories of people getting into the sport on a tight budget / second hand, then your issue isn't necessarily relevant to actual getting people into the sport. And again let's acknowledge that at the basic level the sport is an "expense" because of S/B/R equipment, so yes saying it's an expensive sport at default is a given. The idea that you have to upgrade your equipment to go out and enjoy the sport is bogus. YOU choose to want to do that.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Hah the first timers expenses are still horrifyingly high compared to other endurance sport


But even to compete locally you’ll be head to head with people like me with too much gear

But 1st timer isn’t competing against you. They aren’t even competing for their AG. They literally just want to race and finish and see what the hell this sport is about. Sure some have more aspirations but the true off the couch average person is just showing up and racing. They don’t give 2 fucks that you beat them by an hour in a sprint with all your ST approved gear.

They aren’t analyzing their nutrition intake, they aren’t worried about their watts, they are worried about just getting to T1.

Again by default tri is an expensive endurance sport. Saying that offers nothing to the point of getting people into the sport. I and others are suggesting it’s not even close to way it is based on stuff like your comments,

ETA: I think you are missing the room entirely with your comments so to speak. True 1st time beginners are doing an experience like nothing you describe it as.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

My daughter's ex boyfriend just contacted me because he knew I'd done triathlons. I'm helping him out with his first tri. It is a bit intimidating to get started, especially if you don't know someone to walk you through it.

I went through this process with a bunch of teenagers around 10 years ago. Walked them through all the steps. They (and their parents) had me as a resource. Now they know what to do when they enter a tri (they are all mid 20's)....all pretty good athletes, but none of them are doing tris for now. I hope they circle back, but they have been all too busy with university then new jobs, then the $$$. But local racing around here is not too expensive.

I started racing a little over 20 years ago, directly out of college (where i raced bikes but had no swim/run background.) Moved to Boston and joined a local Tri team. it was great couple of years, lots of social events, a training weekend and plenty of different people to learn from. "70.3" as a brand didn't exist and actually as far as i remember no one was focused on long course. it was all about local sprints, olys, and a few halfs ( that have since been bought and dumped by IM) Also weekly events like low key bike time trials, weekly pub 5ks and group swims etc. it was a real community feel, a lifestyle as much as a sport. it was this lifestyle aspect that has kept me in the sport and allowed by to branch to xc skiing, gravel, kayaking, and skimo with the same enthusiasm.

As I've moved further and further from the city, I've been doing all my training solo. If I entered the sport of triathlon this way(combined with a focus only on one big long event,) I probably wouldn't stick with it for very long. i think to get people back in this sport we ( the experienced ones) need to step up and give back at the basic level. Those weekly bike TTs, 5ks and group swims didn't run themselves. Someone who cared took the time to make them happen. if you count on IM to get people in, it may in the short term. but in the long term it will burn up and spit out the majority of folks.

- I'm not sure a "chalet" is the same thing in N America and Europe.
- It's generally accepted whistler accomodation is really expensive. Go anywhere else in Canada (other than Banff) and it would be considerably cheaper.
- Lift ticket pricing model is completely different in EU and NA. EU is relatively cheap day passes and more expensive season passes, NA is eye watering day passes and cheap early bird season passes. I guess whistler is over $200 per day now, somewhere like 3 valleys (biggest resort in french Alps is about 75 euro per day.
- I actually did a ski season in whistler back when el furnies did $5 main courses. Quick Google suggests it's now $9 for burger and fries and $6.50 for a draught Kokanee. For a huge meal old sphagetti factory was our go to, Google suggests you can now get starter, bread, main course, ice cream, and a beer for $27. Even with taxes and tips neither of those are getting close to $80. That's not to say you can't blow crazy money eating at places like araxi and bearfoot.
- Europe flights are crazy cheap also.

Out of curiosity I just went on crystal ski which is one of the more popular UK ski tour operators. At the end of January you can get a week skiing in Italy - flights, transfers, hotel, buffet breakfast, dinner with unlimited beer and wine, ski hire, and lift pass for under $1100(USD) per person based on 2 people sharing a room.

Fwiw in my ski bumming days I used to spend 3 months skiing in British Columbia for less than $4000usd (flights, lift pass, accomodation etc.). But that was sleeping in hostels, hitchhiking, no alcohol or restaurants etc. I'm not talking so long ago either! That was the winter before COVID. Granted things have went up since then.

Not as intimidating as calling your ex girlfriends father.

I personally don't like the idea that I can train more than someone, be fitter than them, yet they beat me due to them having a top spec bike while I'm on my aluminium bottom of the range canyon endurace. Imo that is a genuine problem and it does put me off pursuing triathlon more seriously.

Sure for some people the goal is just to finish and for them it maybe doesn't matter. But if I'm signing up and paying for a "race" I'm going there to race. If I simply wanted to finish or beat a previous pb I wouldn't even bother signing up I'd just make my own route and go do it (actually this is my current preference).

Triathlon has a huge barrier for entry. Even with the most basic equipment, there's a significant cost. Then there's the time factor. I also don't think the average triathlon competes for "overall experience" with some of the potentially more exciting races out there now. For instance I've signed up for the silk road mountain race this summer $550 for 2 weeks bikepacking through mountains of kyrgyzstan which imo seems vastly more exciting and memorable than the average iron man.

If you are so 'serious' about racing how many hours a week you putting in, what's your FTP watts per kilo, what's your swim pace, what's your 5,10 and half and full mara times?

Get those reasonable and then worry about the minutes you are giving up with equipment..

Imagine if zwift offered some kind of super expensive premium account that gave people willing to shell out a 1 or 2% increase in power. Would people be saying don't worry about it just train more or would there be outrage? In triathlon it's the norm.

To me there is no point in a race where I don't know how much of it is fitness and how much is equipment. That's why I don't enter races. (And it goes both ways if I was on a superbike I'd be wondering if I really deserved X place and how much was the bike). Now I just do my own thing, and see if I'm improving and beating my old times. I'm actually quite happy like that in my own little bubble - it saves me a ton of money on expensive equipment and race fees.

Honestly, I'm not trying to complain. Life isn't fair, there is already an uneven playing field on biology alone. I don't want super bikes banned, in fact i quite enjoy seeing the new tech. I'm simply pointing out why I have little interest in signing up for races and I expect there are others that have similar reservations about triathlon.

What I'm getting at is enjoy the training, enjoy being healthy, enjoy the journey, enjoy the incremental improvements and enjoy the events. Don't let a worry of equipment put you off.

Unless you have picked off all the low hanging fruit does it really matter if you come 150th instead of 146th?

Enjoy the process, and then if it really becomes the type of passion that you want to become competitive you will find a way to make sacrifices in other parts of your life to find the money to find something faster.

Plus, lusting and dreaming over that next fancy piece of bling is fun. Life needs dreams..

I don't do tri anymore, but when I did I raced on a secondhand 2012 p2c with a set of the original Flo wheels, a fairly cheap setup that can be purchased easily in most places. I was also chasing a sub 4 hour 70.3 and could have taken my pro license if I'd decided to stay focused more on tri. Cheaper gear isn't really holding you back.

Not saying there aren't people who pass due to the existence of fast bikes, but I think the total elimination of the 140.6 mile full ironman distance would be better for the sport than the elimination of superbikes. Bring short course back again, those are distances it actually makes sense for age groupers to do.

I get that I'm an outlier - but I did / do the sport to keep fit. 30 years ago I could finish pretty high up, now not so much. My current bike cost £550 12 years ago - even I know that it is not doing me any favours, but I'm not really that bothered. I know what times I can still chase, and that's what I go for. Fitness / mobility is still what's important to me - I know that I need a new bike but I'm not going to the Olympics, so why would I need an Olympians bike?

My wife however, got into triathlon and then decided to do an IM - she bought all the gear, including a good bike, did her IM and has barely ridden it since. After doing a couple of seasons of local races, the IM was her last race.

Everyone's different - I did a half IM distance race this year, and it was obvious that I had the worst bike on the course. Triathlon is a rich persons sport, as we all know - I didn't see many beginners bikes out there - even on the later finishers.

They should have a set of approved equipment so you can't use a bike that costs greater than 3k.

They should lower prices for demographics that are underrepresented. The big problem with triathlon is that it reaches very limited demographic groups.

Honestly, I want some reviews on Chinese carbon. They're not a bad deal tbh, if they compare well to a normal tt bike then that would lower the barrier to entry.

That’s fine. But let’s also be real and talk about what sports don’t have a tech arms race in said sport. What sport is “pure” out there that it’s truly Mano y Mano. The answer isn’t many. So with your line of reasoning you’d never really participate in any event for a sport? It would just be you vs you.

Seriously what sports are out there that don’t have a tech/gear component that thus make it “unfair”?

So that’s fine to have that line of thinking. I just think it’s unfair to say tri has that and not mention all the other sports that have artificial advantages as well. Again what sport are you considering that doesn’t have artificial advantages based on costs? If that is your line in the sand I don’t think you will participate in said sport events very often.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

For everyone wanting a price point requirement in our sport, I’m actually in favor of implementing a race progression requirement. Sprint-olympic-70-140

You can’t show up for your 2nd race as an LC event etc. learn the sport, learn about the training. I’ve been on that bandwagon for almost 10 years now. Especially as I think it would allow for long term lifestyle enjoyment much more than “how quickly can I get to my IM”.


It is funny though that almost every pov in this thread mentions what they’ve seen from LC events.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Total noob question but I don't spend much time in this section these days. What is LC?

Long Course (half or full distance events)

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Much appreciated

except that when we do write about $700 wheelsets (as i recently did) or $499 direct drive smart trainers those reviews don't interest you. it's only interesting to you when we write about something expensive, so that you can complain that we did so.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Sure tech is always improving in every sport and I don't think that's a bad thing. However, the costs in other sports are just massively insignificant in comparison to bike costs. If I'm a pure road runner or soccer player I can buy the best footwear tech for under $300. Even ski and snowboard tech, which is considered expensive by most, is far cheaper than bike tech. I'm struggling to think of a sport you couldn't kit yourself out with all the top tech for less than the cost of an entry level tri bike.

Last year I didn't enter any races - focus was on high altitude mountaineering. This year I will enter silk road mountain race. Year after my goals are ski touring related. I like the triathlon training and it's great fitness for other pursuits, but the races are not really appealing to me and the tech (and just high costs in general) contributes to that. Fwiw I'm not suggesting I'm the norm, but if it puts me off I'm sure there are others who are relatively fit, doing a decent amount of training, but not interested in racing.

General reply. I think there is a difference between triathlete, and someone who does triathlon.

I fit into the latter. Played a sport in college, then pursued career and family. Once those things were well established and I came up for air, I decided to look for a challenge to force myself to better refocus on fitness and health. Doing a "race" gave me motivation, and forced my commitment. I think there will always be a large demographic like this to market to, and I think this is the lifeblood of maintaining the overall community.

There is a subset that then pursue being a triathlete. That is great, more power to all of you. This is where the tech and $$ marketing is directed. Are there still some "triathletes" that are cost conscious? Sure. But many others, for whatever reason, like to invest in all aspects of who they identify as.

But you are comparing the cost of an apple to the cost of beef and complaining that beef is expensive. So what is the scale in each sport, that's probaly the more accurate way of looking at each sport and how they handle the "tech costs".

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

😂 They separated on good terms,although my daughter di say it's not right he talks to me now

cheap stuff reviews is SEO poison. But pearl clutching about "growing the sport" is the cover for complaining about high end race stuff they don't want to pay for but don't want their competitors to be able to use.

Not to mention those $300 shoes mentioned get replaced every 250 miles and we are putting on 50 miles/week vs a bike that lasts a lot longer. And the argument that we aren't using those are trainers is right but if someone wants to take equipment to the extremes...

Side note - my first "carbon plated / thicc-soled" shoe, the Asics Magic Speed 2 retails at $150 and isn't hard to find at $120. This is one tier down from a pure racing shoe - more performance training. Though good enough for Daniela Ryf to race in. I remember the $100 barrier for running shoes being passed during my HS track days in the early 90's, so that's not terrible.

Given I've long since converted to pure cycling and don't often do running races anymore, I'm no longer qualified to review shoes. But I'm sure finding no problem with my Magic Speeds. They're fun and springy!

I don't expect them to last much longer than 250 miles given the thin AF tread. But this is a "tempo/racing" shoe. If you want a daily training shoe, buy a daily training shoe. If you can avoid the pearl clutching of your training miles being a few seconds slower per mile than they othewise would be. (royal "you" - I struggle mightily with pearl clutching during training).

Those $300 should, actually $250-275, should last way longer than 250 miles though. And it’s sad that normal training shoes are now pushing $150+ so the difference between a trainer and race shoe is shrinking making $250 for a faster shoe not seem as big of a jump.

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Twitter - Instagram

And there is the case. You can buy less expensive and high quality equipment across the board but it's the highest priced items that are being looked at here. And you bring up a great point that they are good enough just as you have pros winning on less than $15k bikes.

Alphaflys are $275 and when they first came out, supply was so low and people bought them up so quickly that you couldn't get them for under $400. Again, all extremes and they are "back down" to $275. But no, they don't last more than 250 miles.

And the reason for trainers not being carbon is to save your legs and the fact the non-carbon are less expensive means you can beat up the trainers and fly with carbon. But I digress...

Back when I started shoes were like $60, I stopped for a while as a lot of my equipment stopped working and I needed to focus on other things. Now I come back and training shoes are $150 and then I also needed to buy a bunch of running clothes. Like jfc just running is expensive. It's a good thing I already had a p2 from years ago.

Gym has a lot more social media presence too so I think young people are more likely to lift than anything. Considering a gym membership is $15 and will make you cool. We need some quality triathlon tiktoks tbh. Something to get you hype and make it seem super cool to get younger people in. We need triathlon tiktoks with people that aren't just white dudes on cheap Chinese equipment that look cool. I think a lot of young people are also getting adjusted so I think they could manage an hour a day volume but no more.

I don't have a problem with that. The innovation is what's fun to read about, and innovation almost always gets released at the highest tier of product.

I remember on the UK Top Gear when they tried to have a segment every show for "value cars" and after a season of that they admitted no one wants to watch a segment on the Ford Mondeo. So they went back to fun cars.

Kinda hilarious that people still think the carbon in the shoes matters. It's 99% the foam, maybe 1% the plate. Regardless, I'm still using my OG vaporflies that I purchased back in 2018 I think? Only race in them, so it's not like they get a ton of miles.

Reason training shoes don't have the plate is because it doesn't matter. No training/recovery stimulus by having it in, just makes you run a bit faster by increasing the toe-off distance of your shoe.

Yep. $9.99 Planet fitness is popping up all over town. I’m a member of a $20 a month Genesis (chain that’s growing like mad), because they have a 25m pool. I’ve been doing S/B/R and gym for over 40 years. Other than gravel, bike is dead here. Running is still doing well, but dreadfully watered down by race saturation. Triathlon is dead, with only one local Olympic/sprint left. But the gyms are going crazy, they are everywhere and packed. I’ve never seen them this popular. Cheaper than I’ve ever seen them, and no special equipment needed. Looks like todays rage is the gym, and pickleball. Heck, my wife and I went to Acadamy Sports, spent about $40 on a pickleball starter pack, and go to the free courts down the street. The cheap, simple insta sports are taking over.

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Athlinks / Strava

Hey Dan, what I was pointing out is an opening or gap in market coverage. That is something a of publication can pounce on. Triathlon Magazine Canada went with high end and Ironman coverage at least in most of what I see. The market gap in coverage someone like you can fill and I think it would be valuable to many. I am not complaining about ST coverage. I was commenting on industry wide coverage that is slanted towards the Ferrari end of reviews. I think the entry triathlete is a good demographic worth servicing that it seems many are ignoring. Is that an opp for ST to fill? If I talk to entry level triathletes many are even intimidated to come here.

Would be glad to contribute in the future in that capacity but at this point in life taking on additional responsibilities is tight. Maybe a few years from now.

here is what i have learned over 24 years of publishing product stories:

1. nobody EVER comments about how helpful it is that an entry level product was reviewed. but like clockwork i'll get snarky hate comments every time we publish on a top-range product.

2. when we publish on halo product it's not because we necessarily think you all should go out and buy it. when we publish on dura ace electronic 12sp it's because this is the direction shimano is going. in 2yr you'll find 105 12sp darned near as good at half the price. when we publish on a $1,600 or $1,200 direct drive smart trainer the features and specs will show up in a $500 version in 3yr or 4yr.

2. while tech trickles down, it only trickles to a certain level and that's possibly more than you want to spend (even $500 for a direct drive smart trainer). if you look at what people actually buy, it tends to be what we write about. what does not sell is the product people say they want. for example, where are the $1,500 or $2,000 tri bikes? they don't sell, you won't buy them, so they aren't in the product catalogs of the major players. now, having written this i can almost promise you someone will post to this thread about a $1,500 or $1,800 tri bike and, yeah, somebody is selling it. and when i count bikes in kona there are 7 of them. or 12. as opposed to 500 canyons and 600 cervelos. there is no reason canyon can't make a $2,000 tri bike. the problem is that they can't sell $2,000 tri bikes. that's not the canyon people want.

i don't mind your theorizing, but as a manufacturer (formerly) and media type guy (for the last 2 dozen years) the people who complain bitterly about expensive stuff getting written about don't want to hear that a typical tri bike maker's mean sale price is, say, $6,500 or so. but that's the reality.

all that said, i think you're right that there's an affordability issue and one of my and eric's plans is to bulk up the classifieds forum as that place where affordability exists. pros closet got too choosey in what it wants to sell, and you can't find the $1,500 or $2,000 tri bike there. but that bike exists on the secondary market and we have plans for that forum.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

That's incorrect. The shoes are fast as a system. There are 100% pebax shoes that are not fast at all. And they're wide platformed shoes and heavy daily trainers. They have to be because the foam is not stable in a narrow platform. So it's probably more of a 80/20 piece.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I found my first tt bike used on CL for free. I put $500 in it with tires, Chinese base bar, used Renn disc, used brakes. Got the brakes off here in classifieds.

That thing flew!

I also like that idea. Nobody new to a sport needs flashy brand new. I was a fairly elite junior golfer and half my bag at any point was used clubs.

People always forget that an “also ran” competitor is infinitely greater than a “I quit cause I cannot buy the expensive fast stuff”. The person out there on a used Schwinn is a hero, the complainer at home is a freaking zero.

look, i'm not so old i don't remember when i started in this sport. my first race bike was a used raleigh international. my second race bike was a used colnago frame, onto which i swapped the used parts from my original used bike. i did not buy my first NEW bike until i'd been in bike racing, and then triathlon, for about 7 or 8 years. when i show pics of my first kona, in 1981, that was on the "new" used frame onto which i swapped the used parts.

i bought flatted sew-ups for $5 each and i cut the thread, unwrapped the casing, pulled out the latex tube, patched the tube, sewed the tire back up. that was my "new" race tire. i bought what i could afford, raced it, upgraded when i could. i wish i was as fast now on my new fancy stuff as i was back then on my patched tires and used frame and parts.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

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Hahaha...I used to fix my flatted sew-ups as well and none of my friends could understand why I wanted their old flat tires.I got pretty good at sewing those things.
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Reminds me of the Obre autobio. He did the same thing, re-sewing tubs after repair then racing.

Maybe an idea is a classifieds section of newbies asking for help to locate or search for bargains and build into the sport and vets can help with local CL links or ST classified links or good budget minded guidance.

I have in past cruised a person’s local CL and ebay for them and gave suggestions.

I disagree with this.

Alpha fly is amazing and super fast. Minus 15 years of age equivalent for me in running.

Saucing endorphin pro is solid but not as fast when I use it. Same pebax foam.

Nike invincible is more of a heavy recovery shoe but it’s also pebax and it’s literally the slowest shoe in my rotation along with the bondi6. I’d think if pebax was all that was needed this would be faster than a bondi.

I def feel the plate rebounding in the alphafly it’s awesome. Weirdly nowhere near as much bounce in the endorphin pro for me.

I THINK there are two discussions at hand.

1. What is the magnitude of a new tri bike sale?

2. What is magnitude in terms of cost entry for a new person to enter and enjoy the sport.

These are two different discussions because the first question may be answered by the group of experienced enthusiasts already in the sport who are in upgrade cycles. These people will continuously be in upgrade cycles as long as they stay in the sport, but they are already in the sport. They are not growing the sport.

The second question is that massive bottom of the pyramid that ideally bolts on and becomes a feeder group for the future of the sport. Do reviews in the likes of Triathlon Magazine Canada that kind of address the first group and talk about high end everything deter new people entering the sport ? The good news is that all these people entering the sport are ideal people for "hand me downs" from those in the sport on 'upgrade cycles'.

So we can have both. The upgrade cycle die hards and then all the others (maybe the cheapo die hards and the newbies wanting good enough gear at an entry price point). After all, those $6500 to $18K bikes have to end up somewhere eventually (ideally not a land fill).

Is there some set of themes in much of the media, not just gear review but the entire lifestyle focus article from all the Kona qual xyz article vs 'can I use a surfer wetsuit to stay warm in my first race' (by the way I know a guy who answered the latter question for an entire emerging sport), that is a gap that can better inform the conveyor belt of new talent wondering how to enter this sport ?

If you look at some of the responses on this thread, as a sport we do have a collective 'old guys' country club' image issue.

You and I are part of the old guy country club (Sheesh when you started in the sport and me a few years after you, there were no guys our age doing this) . Now us and the cohort a decade younger than us are still doing it and largely our generation is still running the sport (Messick is my age). Can we do better so that when we are totally out of it, there is a big balloon of people 30 years younger backfilling ?

Or will we diminish the sport with everything Ironman, everything high end, everything around old rich guys and nothing for youth mass participation and nothing for local racing ?

I think your idea of beefing up the classifieds is great. Last August I wanted to get mechanical Gruppo, rim brake tri bike in size 51. I was willing to upgrade to disc. Your $6500 number was bang on. For something good enough for me from QR or Canyon or Cervelo that's where I was landing with mechanical and daic brakes and some wheels fast enough to race.

I used Facebook marketplace and found a mechanical ultegra Cervelo P3 rim brake from 2019. Exact same bike as I owned in 2014. I got it for $2400 CAD. At my ability and everyone slower than me in my age group the $6500 new vs $2400 second hand was not making a dent on my overall position.

I think we are on the same mission for this sport to grow and thrive...but I am just a private citizen who participates and in my way introduced people to the sport. My input is from feet on the street. Keep in mind I am not from California or Boulder which are different worlds. But we need this sport to be healthy all over.


But how does a new triathlete figure all that out? Maybe they just need to be informed of what is out there in the second hand market and that it is plenty fast. In 2020 I qualified for 70.3 world's 2021 on a 2010 era Cannondale slice that you rode in the Tour of California ITT years ago. Most new athletes would look at that piece of aero shit frame and think it was beneath them!!!

What would be really good is if you could do a write up showing the time difference between a roady, a 20 year old TT bike and a new super bike at 160 Watts just to show new comers how little time saving there is.

Without sounding like a broken record people are under the impression that they are losing a huge amount of time which is just so wrong.

Haha...I have a set of Mavic GP4 rims with Campy record wide flange hubs in my basement that you could install those tubulars on but you would have to find a six speed thread on freewheel !!!! I can't throw out those rims because I rode my first IMC Penticton on those. Your ex flew by on a new fangled dual 650 bike with 80 degree seat tube angle!!! All kidding aside what was the price of that Superform or Kilo (or whatever) she was setting bike course records on?

It's not the same foam and it's different shoe design. Someone pulled the plate out of a vaporfly and it was more or less just as fast. Nike Pegasus turbo was the zoomx foam and those flew. Hokas have a plate and have historically been trash compared to the others, in the sense of having no measurable benefit. Doesnt really matter, just funny to me

You know what you do? You just be a good steward to your fellow athlete. I went to college with an high level cyclist/triathlete. He was the nicest guy who was a stud. You’d not even know he was a fast athlete unless you saw him race, he never spoke about it other than at races. He got some spinal issue that meant he couldn’t workout anymore. Has like a 7 year old kid who’s teacher is getting into the sport. He comes into the shop asking for a wheel box. He’s going to give his hold hed tri spoke to the teacher as a surprise Christmas present “why not I’m not using them ever again”. Simple stuff like that.

Our tri store is going to do an “ask the coach” free clinic for all triathletes each month in the triangle area. We’ll focus on a topic and then open forum. Maybe 2 ppl show up, maybe 8, but it’s just about opening it up to getting info out there.


Go be you dev. You’re genuine and care. maybe you bring someone into the sport or maybe you meet someone and they tell you they are stoked about swimming/martial arts/skiing. You now have an in to ask them about said journey every time you see them. That’s a fun interaction that builds a relationship.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Fair question. If everyone thinks they need to have a $18K bike then the sport would be very limited outside of sponsored athletes. That is not what you are going to see at races though.

My first triathlon was done with 5-6 of my friends. I didn't have a race bike or access to a pool, so I decided to just follow my favorite half marathon training plan and not try to train for the bike or swim legs at all. I borrowed a race bike from a friend of my brother for the race and went and had fun. I did something like 3:30 min/100 swim time, averaged around 21.5 MPH on the bike, and had the 2nd fastest run split of the day for about an 8th place out of about 15 people in my AG finish. That is how people get into this sport. They compete with what they have and don't try to compete with people on $18K bikes.

My first Tri bike was $300, my second Tri bike was $1,500, and my current tribike was $1,600 with aero carbon race wheels and it only had 2,000 miles on in.

You don't have to break the bank to be a triathlete. I averaged 24.2 MPH average for the bike leg at my last race on the $1,600 bike. When I had the $300 bike I used to love coasting past people on $10K bike when going down long hills in races.

Let's be clear. The paid advertising is designed to make it look like everyone who is serious about the sport has an $18K bike, but that is defiantly not true. I followed a local athlete when I started the sport who's resume included a 2nd place over all finish as USAT Duathlon Nationals and a 1st place over all AG finish at Ironman Texas. He did all that without funds for aero carbon race wheels and competing on a low budget bike. If you talk to people at races you will find that no one is racing on an $18K bike. I am guessing that you will find that most of the serious triathletes are on bike that are under $2,500 and that entry level athletes are completing on mountain bikes that they had before they got into the sport or entry level street bike. Paid advertisement is not aimed at grow the sport. It is aimed at making sales to people already in the sport.

Don't get me wrong there are lots of sports that are cheaper than Triathlons. Especially at the pointy end, but we should not be driving the false narrative that you need an $18K TT bike to get into the sport. Anything that you have kicking around the garage rusting out will do the trick. Especially if you are doing it to change up your cross fit routine and not with the goal to complete for podiums.

it costs 2600 Australian dollars to get 105 di2.

So not sure how new entrants are going to go when it cost over 2000 bucks to change gears and you don't even get wheels and a frame

Why does a new entrant need Di2?? Why does anyone for that matter in triathlon...

Your argument is like a Ferrari costs $500,000, how is anyone going to afford a car..

There are mechanical P3's for under $1k second hand...

One thing I notice about a lot of bike and tri stuff is all the news is constantly about pros and elite amateurs racing. Yes, there is a group of folks who are "fans" of a sport and wish to know that. But it's a poor assumption that all the average joe participants even necessarily care what the top pros/ams are doing in a sport.

It can range from "don't care" to "superfan".

Deal with that is, it isn't like Top Gear where it's only an entertainment consumption thing and folks like to see the "go fast" all the time. Sometimes folks want/need the average joes.

I get that average joes probably don't bring the same clicks/likes/revenue stream in the obvious manner, but they bring the primary revenue stream otherwise since they're the ones actually buying products.

Not sure how you manage that in terms of balancing glossy content with gritty boring average joe stuff to still get ad revenues, but something to think on.

That’s the part that I don’t understand. Why is that lots of people on this very site got into the sport on non tri gear, second hand, or borrowed gear. They get into it, loved it and then upgraded.

Why is it that new people can’t do that now? Why do we only complain about the cost of new 105di2 when there are tons of used bikes out there for the new person. And here is the part I don’t get. I’m with them that cost is a factor. But what point are they making other than stating the obvious? No one wants to talk solutions, they just want to complain about it also while talking about their own high end stuff. So when the used bike marker solution comes up, that prob many people complaining about costs used as a pathway, suddenly they do quiet. It’s they only want to complain about the upgrade costs.

So again I’m with you. Bikes are expensive, running shoes are expensive, pool lane is expensive. And that’s all one person.

Triathlon has a cost factor. But you know what it also has? An athletic barrier of entry factor. You don’t just get to go do it next weekend. There is a min training threshold you basically need in order not to die. You can go “run” a 5k right off the couch with your co workers as a “charity event” because guess what? You’ll just walk the event in 1 hour.

Tri doesn’t have that capability. If you can’t swim, tri is already out. If you go zero training into an event, you may harm yourself or the event.

Like yes tri has a cost issue, but it has an min fitness level barrier that is a bigger issue to overcome than the cost. You can find cheap equipment. You don’t just find swimming, you actively have to try and do it. You can’t just be a biker. You have to be a bier that has some swim background or ability to do it.

So where is that issue being resolved. That’s a waaaay bigger issue than the cost of said sport. Look at the actual scale of costs, that’s what you should be looking at when talking “cost”. By default a bike is more expensive than a pair of shoes or goggles and jammers. Thank you all for stating the obvious. But those 3 sports have their own barrier to entry. Tri then combines all 3, that is your barrier to entry. THAT is a waay bigger issue than costs. It’s that triathlon by default has a much higher fitness/sport specified standard that other sports don’t have to overcome. No one wants to talk about that.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Well said. I think the challenge there is that it has two barriers of entry though. The first is what you stated so whittles down the pool of available people. Then you add onto that the cost or perceived cost and you have what we have today.

No complaints from me. My excuse to my wife is that I either spend the money to keep myself in shape now and be happy doing it or I pay extra health costs later. 😄

Edit: I read again and you did state both barriers

There may not be a solution. We live in different times. Triathlon magazines are no longer at the grocery store, mall, or every LBS and LRS. We no longer go to Blockbuster and rent Penny Marshall’s Ironman movie. We no longer hang out at the LBS and LRS and pick up race pamphlets for every race happening. We no longer own bikes as a necessary human possession, and ride them everywhere. We no longer spend summer at the beach or pool, and know how to swim because it’s a right of passage. Times are so different. My first tri was totally winged, with what I already owned. We did the whole race in swim trunks and whatever bike was in the garage. Fitness isn’t a normal part of life anymore. It has to be searched out now, by a generation who grew up looking at screens. And as I mentioned in a previous post, pickleball for an initial $40 or so, or a $9.99/ month Planet Fitness membership are the hot things today.

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Athlinks / Strava

There's about to be no choice for new bikes. There are a few remaining 105 R7000 bikes out there (starting at around $4000 for entry-level tri bike), but I presume for the next model year it'll all be R7150, with an upward shift in entry level cost closer to $5K. Shimano will still make the old stuff, but likely just for replacement parts, not OEM. Of the three U.S. brands with the largest in-store retail presence, two have completely given up on entry level tri. Their cheapest tri bikes are around $10K. (Trek, Specialized *). And Cannondale has apparently gotten out of the Tri/TT business altogether.

I "get" buying used. I haven't bought a new bike in well over a decade (7 used bikes or "new old stock" framesets purchased in that period). But buying used is more comfortable for us here, who all nod our heads knowingly when you refer to "P3", and who all know our stack/reach and can spend 30 seconds of quick math to understand right away which bikes fit us. For a newbie it usually requires hand-holding. My first tri bike way back in the day was a $2200 (mostly Ultegra) retail floor model....safe choice to learn what a tri bike is.

* Specialized's web site still shows a $3200 bike based on the old Shiv frame, but none are available, and I'm reasonably certain they're not going to make any more of those rim brake frames, and the site just needs updating.

Also look at the saturation of running, possibly the feeder sport that provides 90% of the triathletes (just my local observation). In tri’s heyday, we were lucky to have one 5k or 10k a month, April through October. Many serious local level runners went to tri, just for more racing. Today, there are several 5k’s every freaking weekend, year round, plus marathons and half’s and ultras, and more trail races than you can keep track of. I find it interesting over the last 40 years, that the majority of my tri friends, came from the running crowd. Even as tri grew and grew, they never gave up the running races, to go just tri. And as we are now experiencing running race saturation, and tri has dwindled to almost nothing, those same crossover folks, don’t really care, because there is plenty of other, cheaper, simpler races, to satisfy their competitive urges. I’m one of them. Even if tri were to magically regress to the days we had 5 or 6 big local triathlons a year, I would find it hard to commit, with all the other running options available. There is a lot more competitive options theses days, and triathlon isn’t standing up to it very well.

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Athlinks / Strava

I'm not disagreeing with you, but read how many people on this very site got into the sport. Borrowed/used equipment. And imo right now with everything going "online", shopping for used is EASIER today than it has ever been in the cycling industry. Sure you may not know exactly if someone who is 5'11 is a 54 or 56. But I give people a little more credit than you seem to do. The internet is a very useful tool for buying just about anything.

ETA: Several vendors allow vendors to post new and used bikes online through various vendors (some dont- Cervelo you aren't allowed to post on other avenues beyond your own biz website per dealer agreement. I get more people calling on a weekly basis for used bikes than i do new bikes. Like right now is the easiest and most convienent time ever to go used market. CL, FB market place, pro's closet, Bike Exchange, Bicycle Blue Book. TODAY more than ever is when anyone can find a used bike. This idea that we have to hand hold isn't an experience I am seeing when dealing with those used bike customers. People may need more questions answered than others, sure. But this idea that a newb can't find a way to purchase a bike in today's world...i'm not buying that reason.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

There is no solution to the "cost". Like you can't get around that. You can mitigate it in how you purchase said equipment (and that's what I'm pushing back on people that you can find ways to offset costs), but you aren't going get around the expense of one sport vs the expense of another sport, when both aren't on equal equipment costs. But beyond that imo the bigger issue is that triathlon isn't sexy. It's not "easy". Nothing about the sport is easy. Absolutely nothing. Hell you can't even just go decide on a Tuesday to go do a race 4 days later on a Saturday if you haven't swam in 26 years since your youth days, like you can with doing a run event. Lots of people do charity run events and just walk the whole damn thing, and then get patted on the back for doing it. Guess what you can't "fake" doing a triathlon. You will harm yourself and potentially others doing it that way. The act of triathlon itself is the biggest barrier to participant numbers. So then you add in the cost of it, and you are limiting the limited number of people. But are there solutions to it? I'm pushing back on this idea that everyone keeps complaining about the costs of bikes, yet everyone has the stories of doing it on the cheap...yet suddenly no newbie can't do it on the cheap apparently (yes 1992 "cheap" vs 2000 “cheap” vs 2014 “cheap” vs 2022 "cheap" will be different values....but it can be done, you guys proved it already by doing it on the cheap to begin with).

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

A road bike only division in tris would help. End the tech wars to reduce barrier to entry. Still having trouble selling my used tri bike.. why are people not being steered to buy used regardless of ability? IM pro Colin chartier did well doing that

Cycling in general is just insane price wise. Before I even considered triathlon, and was shopping for MTBs, sub 2k basically gets you a bike you'll want to upgrade fairly quickly. Even moreso if you insist on full suspension. I realize the "math" works when you talk about building a bike from scratch, but the fact that a grand buys you a bike that isn't even worth it, full of cheap disposable components that'll need changing in a years time with heavy use, doesn't bode well for future growth. Triathlon or not.

.
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My old piece of crap $600USD Cannondale CAAD8 is my tri bike,bikepacking bike and gravel bike all rolled into one.Damned bike is bullet proof and Lord knows I have tried to kill it but the thing just keeps going.The Tri-geeks just love looking down their noses at my bike and I like we are some sort of interlopers.It is pretty funny.

I would post photo's of it in Busselton at IMWA followed by my cross Oz tour (including a 235k isolated gravel section towing my BOB) but I can't be bothered resizing every damned photo to fit the requirements here on ST.

Triathlon's perception is its biggest barrier to entry. US perspective here but non-triathletes think ironman=triathlon. Not many have the time for that, so it's an instant turn-off. I think many more people would be willing to give it a tri (pun intended) if there were more local races and they got more attention. I agree with you, I think ST vastly overestimates the number of people who actually care about how fast they go relative to others, the existence of people on superbikes is irrelevant to them.

This literally just popped up on my YouTube feed..(posted 3hrs ago on the SLT channel)

Go to any Planet Fitness and look at the vehicles the kids are driving to the gym. It’s not that they can’t afford triathlon, it’s they don’t want to. I really think Triathlon has gone the way of roller skating, skateboarding, tennis, CrossFit, golf, softball, club bike racing, etc. the stuff still exists, but the heyday is over. Young folks don’t want to do our old people shit anymore. How to you overcome that?

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Athlinks / Strava

Right culturally people's "values" have changed in how they view "fitness" etc. Not right, not wrong, just the attention span and interest has changed. That's why I have thought the best way the sport can gain any of that interest is removing the actual IM distance from said sport. Which I think will happen to a degree in 10+ years. I think in NA we will have at best half a dozen IM's to choose from (I actually think it'll be closer to 3-4 IM's; not counting Kona). There wont be a need for them because at the rate we are going there will be no one to backfill the events. I think the bread and butter event will be the half iron distance. I think that will also open up more possibility for local races to have a bigger impact on said person's training/life. I think IM sometimes gets into a "one race mindset", that athletes forget that they learn from racing even if an Oly, etc as they do *only* to train.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

In the new market they are not going to make mech 105. There are not a lot of tiagra options, people will fear buying an obsolete product

This, around here (australia) running of all things is booming, from park run to Ultras running is going crazy. There are heaps of groups on strava, some money making coaching groups, but plenty other social runners getting together in numbers of up to mid 100's.

The WTC races are still trucking on, with lower numbers, local tris eek out an existence, but costs are too high for the people running them, over $200 to do an OD. Cycle racing has always been odd elitists, but we still have the same 150 or so middle aged men getting older sitting around on 20 K bikes happy to race each other, talking about how they are still good, while missing the point that there are no new people.

While I agree get on the used market, it's a confronting place to engage, prices are generally very high and sellers tend to get very unhappy if you negotiate.

I've been trying to buy some used Fulcrum racing zeros. New they can be picked up for around 1100 dollars, used the starting price is around 800 to 900 dollars. For that 200-300 I'm buying new.

As them to reduce, you get the no low balling, time waste, tyre kickers, snarkiness. Saying that I'm watching these wheels sit on the web for months price slowly coming down.

My first tri was totally winged like yours. I was a runner who rode bikes as a kid and had learned to swim and I HAD to do the local tri when I saw the application. I did tris for several years before aero bars were popularized so the cheap road bike I got in HS that I used in those races (including a 70.3 in my second season) basically looked like the bike the pros were using in the IM. It's not that way anymore.

I don't think expensive equipment keeps most folks who are interested from entering their first tri. I do wonder whether the increased emphasis on spending $ to get faster turns folks away from tri more quickly than it did when we started doing tris back in the day. I know it has affected my affinity for tri.

I don't even think it's a case of "super dedicated, rich triathletes with engineering background" vs "newbies".

There are a ton of people, like myself, who are pretty decent athletes who the sport just totally left behind with it's ever climbing expenses and tech. I've been involved since triathlon since around 2002, and over the last 5-6 years the sport had just totally lost interest for me, in large part because of what I have described above. I'm about as turned off from the $18k super bikes and $4k wheels as you could imagine. I also noticed a big shift in people joining the local tri groups. It used to be a pretty eclectic group of people, now it seems to attract a very specific type.

The sport is really shooting itself in the foot.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

This. With the market, consumer and supplier moving to an IM, WTC events as the brand, consumers largely didn't won't support basic events. It's also getting harder to run no frills events.

Few years ago we had a great LC event here, it had a tiny field, lost money, never came back. Yet same weekend folk travelled en-masse to country Victoria to do a 70.3

A lot of people's first tri is a 70.3 or an IM. I don't care about folk on super bikes et al. Contrary to popular belief IM is not hard, if you actually like running, biking etc you can train for 12 weeks and go 11:xx, even without swimming the rest of the year. Sometimes even under 11.

A lot of the current crowd are in it for the instagram, starva group, yay me, which at least gets them doing it. Tend to have or at least prioritise spend on kit.

If I can get a forward facing seat post on my cervelo 2012 might do my next tri on that.

As for the second hand market being awesome, the pro closest has the wheels I am looking for used costing more than new. The second hand road bikes in my size cheapest is 2900 for a 4 year old trek emonda, which has rim brakes.

I’ve said that now more than ever people have the greatest selection of secondary options. Pros closet, FB marketplace, eBay, CL, Bike Exchange, Bicycle Blue Book. So you have way more options to find items that can help you on the journey. You don’t have to only go to ST classifieds, you don’t only have to pay Pro closet prices or else. Maybe the prices are high, and maybe they are low. But my point was in todays world that is so internet friendly even a newb has ability to find more ways to buy price friendlier products than only LBS/*new* prices. Not every single person out there is a dick when they are selling their used gear, etc.

Eta: I just typed “Cervelo p2” on FB marketplace.
8 bikes just popped up as these prices:
$500
$2k
$1.7k
$1.8k
$1.5k
$1.2k
$1k
$1085

Likely due to year/shape etc. The current base model 105 is $3500.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

The second hand market is brutal. ebay, exchange, pros closet, unless you are willing to search and search the prices are generally not worth the bother and in most cases New is better.

I'm currently looking for a decent rim brake for the cervelo set of wheels for crits. second hand market is either so close to new prices or 60 to 70 % of new for clapped out wheels.

Anyways, the market is what it is, and the sport is what the people made it, for worse, better or some where in between.

PS If you can find me a set of used wheels which are not A: clapped out or B a complete rip off, please let me know

^ I made an edit. I went and searched “cervelo P2 “ and got 8 options with listing price in my edited comment. That’s 1 search result from 1 secondary market in 5 min search.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Yes there are ten year old P2 which are more than adequate for anyone at good prices.

Exactly!!

People are just lazy and it's easier to look for excuses to not put in effort.

As an analogy, its easier to complain that a rock star can play a guitar so well because his guitar is worth $20k, instead of getting off your ass and learning how to play a guitar on a $100 second hand Walmart special in the first place.

And maybe that is the biggest problem we face. In a society that is built on ever increasing levels of instant gratification and the path of least resistance, a sport that actually requires dedication and effort isn't that attractive...

Pm me- premierbike.com

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

I think there is a lot of truth to your post.

As others have mentioned, my first tri, I did off soccer, track and riding my bike to soccer practices and games. Well, actually before my first tri, I spent two summers riding 2500-3500 km with my bike loaded up with saddle bags and sleeping bag and tent and touring around Europe. I would just ride 100-250km per day "getting around". I got back after my second trip and there was a triathlon, I owned a bike, I was a good runner, I could ride 4-8 hrs in a day no problem, and I knew how to swim around 50m free without having to start hyper ventilating and do breast stroke, so in the week before my first tri, I did 2 lengths free, one length breast, then 4+1, then 6+1....by mid week I got to 10+1 a few times (basically 250m free, 25 m recovery breast) a few times and covered a 1km and figured I could survive the 2km swim, 55km bike, 15km run of my first tri.

But it was all just winging it on general fitness, with no structure other than showing up (unlike some others on this thread, I did my first tri in cycling shorts....not a speedo).

In any case I got it done and was kind of hooked. But the race was just an outcome of generally being quite fit from other sports.

As Scott Molina once said, "I was training for triathlon as a teenager before I knew triathlon existed". Between soccer, track, indoor soccer, tennis, baseball, lifting weights, using my bike for transport, winter outdoor endless hours of hockey I was literally doing 4 hrs of training more most days. Or throw in an extra run, because it was not track seasons and an extra run that was more fun than doing physics or chemistry anyway!!!

In my son's generation, they never got to operate like that. Everything was organized sports or "nothing at all". Their age group in the 20's is largely turned off from tris (my son and all his friends all raced local tris when they were in their teens as cross training for XC ski racing during the summer season). Not sure if any of them will come back to tris after they get settled into their careers and have families and kids. I hope they do.

But I think you are right that there will eventually only be a few continental IM's.

Keep in mind until 1999, there was ONLY IRONMAN Canada Penticton, and Kona. Other than that, there were around 20 half Ironmans and three Olympics Tris (Mr. T's in Chicago, Memphis is May Olympic and one more) that you could qualify for Kona at. Eventually IM Lake Placid, IM Florida showed up in 1999 and then Ironman Wisconsin the next year.....so there was Kona, Ironman Canada and three more in USA and that was it....and a whole whack of independent half IM's with Kona slots. And a shit ton of local races in every town.

I think you are right that most of the full IM's will fold because no one will want to do them and we'll be left with 3-4 at most. That may be a good thing.

Things have changed from, "I think I will go wing a tri because I happen to be fit and I am intrigued by the challenge" to "I heard about that Ironman in Hawaii, and there are 10 Ironmans I can pick from so I think I will sign up for one and now I have to figure out how to do it and learn how to do this sport"

I think you get a lot more triathletes for "life" when you pull from people who are already into fitness "just because that is what they do" versus "people who are drawn to the sport to do a specific event". The people in the first camp they don't need triathlon, they will find something else to get fit with and if gear and tech become too expensive, they may not bother. The people who are coming to the sport for an achievement, they may pay the price tag, but not sure those customers will stick around after the bucket list tick mark is checked off. Hopefully many do. More is good.

The people's champion

Your mention of 1999 sent me down nostalgia lane…at that point I had already washed myself up with an eating disorder. ‘98 was my year, with races across the Southeast US every one to two weeks. Pretty sure across the span of a summer I raced 10x or so, at least 3 olys as part of the program…I was even able to dig up this archive from the internet.

http://archives.chattanoogatrackclub.org/...CD-Tri1998splits.htm

A 6th place over-all with what I thought was a pretty good run at the time…funny that I’d beat my younger over-trained self by 20min today easily.

My bike at the time was a Dura-Ace equipped Klein Aeolus, procured with a hefty shop discount…oversized at 62cm so I could get the 700c wheels - most tri-specific bikes were 650’s at the time. Did not give it the rides it deserved… it’s now a friends shed decor in Montana somewhere.

It’s funny though, at the time I had no interest in IM races or relative distances - only Olympic distances as I had faint hopes of Swedish National team hopes with an inaugural Olympic Games looming.

Most of the races I've done in recent years have been sprints, and the vast majority of bikes at those races aren't tri bikes. A large percentage aren't even road bikes, lots of MTBs, hybrids, and comfort bikes. I've even seen a few Electra Townies. At a handful of races, my bike was among the most expensive/high tech: a 2008 QR Lucero with 10 speed 105.

My tri club does a few beginner's transition clinics every year in the months leading up to the local reverse sprint, and almost nobody shows up with a tri bike or high end road bike...

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"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"

20k bike in cycling races yet entry fee $30 for a crit. Usac needs to fix cat 5 and drop lap rule.

Another n = 1 story from today

New to the sport middle aged athlete from motocross, gets a 6 year old tri bike for listed price $600, paid $150 less (FB marketplace). Got all the clothing/gear needed to now swim / bike / run "all in" for under $1k. Remarked after paying for this stuff "this is cheap compared to motocross".

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

The dichotomy of this conversation is that we all say it is possible to be good at Tri etc on a old/road/inferior bike however the biggest threads in ST tend to be that Lionel rode the wrong bike, and imagine how much faster Taylor Knibb would have been on a tri bike and not taping gels to her top post.

I think the site itself does an amazing job promoting our sport at all levels, I just think we as posters get caught up in our own hype sometimes lol

Rephrase one thing because I think what happens is, people start to merge different points into one topic.

The participant angle is different than what it takes to be good angle. If you are discussing participant, the first timers do they really care how they do? Or is it just about doing the sport and seeing what it is about. I mean of course people want to do well but the very 1st time your “expectation” is going to be much different than 5 races into your career, 20 races into your career etc.

I’m boots on the ground in this sport on a daily basis. Just today I dealt with a guy that wants to buy a fully decked out P5 10:15am and the other example of a newb guy going to “just see how it goes” on $1k all in budget at 4:15pm. Funniest thing about the day- the customer has no clue what he is doing, but the joy he had in telling his wife that at 52 he’s going to go out and do this. That’s the shit that your like, “that’s awesome”.

So it bothers me when I hear people talk about how costly the sport is or how much a pain in the ass second market is. It sometimes almost feels like some gleefulness about the complaints of our sport. That’s what I want to push back against because I don’t think it has to be that way. Again yes I recognize there are costs to this sport. And buying online can absolutely be a pain in the ass. i just think today more than ever people have the ability to get in the sport on a budget with all the secondary markets out there. Yes there will be some ass

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I want people to sell me stuff for 50 % less than they want to, they don't and then I whinge about it on ST :)

I shipped a used bike from NC to Denver today for $250 (and we get a super good shipping rate vs what normal person shipping does, normal quoted rate was $408). I don’t even want to know what it’ll cost to send anything down under. Maybe your used market sucks more than ours does ha.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

It's much the same, smaller in scale.

You get a lot of folk remorsefully putting last years great idea, I'm gonna be an ironman, I'm gonn race bikes etc up and trying to get most of the price back.

The new market is quite good globally though and I'd rather drop 1100 AUD on a set of good clinchers, than give somebody 850 for their second hand remorse

Maybe its you that's the problem? You expect half price for a set of wheels that have basically not been used? You are willing to pay another $300 out of spite...wow...Do you have the same approach when selling your gear?

Try and have a sense of humor. Yep if you buy gear expect to write 40 % of new price. If you can do better so be it. I generally get the price I want, as I can afford new, if people don't meet my price I'll be new. It's called the market.

As for selling, I tend to give my used stuff to people who don't have any good kit, or sell it for a token fee, eg zipp 404/808 powertap to a new mid 20's guy in our squad who couldnt' afford anything flashy. I had lots of stuff I didn't need.

Same with my bikes, my older road bike I have lent to a club mate who didn't have a bike and said give it back when you are ready.

$300 is not out of spite, it's buying new, not clapped out, at least its clean, has a warranty, is $300 worth saving on stuff that in many instances is clapped out rubbish:

Ahhh the good ol days ;-) They're were definitely a lot fewer races and fewer triathletes in general back in late 80s and early 90s. I still take pride in keeping things simple and low cost. The KQ days are done for me (thanks Crohns!) so even more so is a lifestyle and stay fit. I am guessing with IM, 2 halves, and some other sport specific things next year - along with pool - I'll spend about 2k. We take the camper with us so lodging isnt too bad,as the mrs loves camper travel.

Maybe we have just reached terminal velocity on participation based on fees and all the options available to those who don't find tri their favorite. Still cheaper than many hobbies (golf, boating, cars, etc) and good for you, especially as you age with the cross training

All that said, with a grad student child doing her first races the price would have been an issue if we didn't have a pile of hand me down gear.

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Banger

I agree….but the advertisers are paying the bill for magazines and want articles written for what they are selling. So you end up reading about nothing but expensive high end equipment and then the pros get free equipment and are required to market it in social media. Many times the latest equipment is only marginally faster then previous years. The real question is how do you get the word out to the masses that you can have just as much fun and, if you want, be just as competitive with less expensive options?

A few years back, I did a local triathlon where Steve and Anne Hed’s son was doing his first triathlon. I told Steve I was riding a aluminum frame with HED wheels and that it felt like a rocket. He agreed that with good wheels (of course he did) you can make any bike allot faster. So what are the options for making a less expensive bike more to your liking and competitive level….that’s the article I would like to see/read and I think GCN does a good job with this for example.

I typically watch PROs to see what new technology they are using and figure out a way to add it to my existing bike allocating approximately $1000/year. I started with a $250 steel frame bike (down tube shifting) which I added aero bar extensions to and road it for two seasons until I felt that long term I wanted to do triathlons. Over the past twenty years I have taken that original bike and following that upgrade formula, I am now riding a 2016 P3 with di2, tririg brakes and alpha one handle bars, power pedals, down tube storage, full compliment of HED race wheels (of course). Maybe next year I will add the new style of aero extensions and possibly five years from now, invest in a new frame when the P3 is tired.

As a fellow triathlete once told me when I asked him how to get faster on the bike….he responded “bike, bike and bike some more.”

It is hilarious how you could not resist beyond three posts to turn your "argument" into a "let's brag about my past performances" post. You know the saying, the older I am..the better I was ;-)

Back to topic, although there is a somewhat stable tri community in Southern Ontario and we have a great local half distance race (Barrelman) ..however, numbers are going down and I definitely agree that equipment marketing is part of the problem. I hang out with a bunch of runners that are tempted to do a tri but are intimidate at the cost. They likely do not believe me when I mention that you can build a really good fast tri bike for about 3k.

Why review old stuff? Because that is what you are doing. Anything new at that price point isn’t new. It’s old trickle down tech. Now you could have a low cost bike shootout but here’s the thing. No new bikes are low cost.

If the average person picks up a magazine and sees a 2500 bike they’re still going to go holy shit that thing doesn’t have a motor?

Triathlon has a problem with cost, but it’s not bike cost. It’s the “you need that too”. I mean how could you ever do a triathlon without a coach or a power meter. It’s unheard of next to impossible. No it’s not but that is what a good majority of people act like now.

The cost of a coach for a year will make the “cheap” bike actually feel cheap. Then the person will get bored because they’re following a plan every day and not getting to experience the just go run or ride aspect. Oh by the way to go just try a race it’s $100 for a sprint. $1000 for an Ironman, etc. If you want to grow the sport again, make s/b/r fun again, make the racing affordable again, that’ll bring back the people who just want to go do a race to have fun and if they’re fast so be it. The on going cost and the “I think I need it” cost just to race has killed the sport.

To put it in perspective you’re from the great white north. Anyone who has looked at hockey gear who played 10-20 or longer years ago I’m sure has had a meltdown on cost of gear now. However, beyond sticks most of that stuff you can use for quite awhile. I can play three games a weekend two drop in and one adult league game for less than $40 a week. Basically 5 hours of ice time for less than $10 an hour in Colorado, why in the world would I not do that instead race? I’ll still go do s/b/r, but as a sport? Not unless I’m really feeling up to it. The bike costs aren’t the problem, it’s the ongoing costs, that needs to be fixed.

The racing won’t become “affordable” anytime soon. Not because local RD’s want to fleece beginners or the local race community, but because basic requirements at local races have all gone up in costs. Permits, certain required volunteers (LG, boat safety support) has all caused even the local events to be “expensive”. The local police will dictate that they require X number of people to be present and yet they don’t even really man the roads. Many times they are just there on side of road but not always actively “controlling” the intersections. And guess what? If police say 12 people at $80/hr, you either will do that or the permit won’t happen and go find another venue to race at. Even if it’s more than you think is needed, they will dictate what is required and if not followed, permit won’t happen. The local RD is up against so much these days that he can’t make it affordable even if they want too.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Totally get it. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not a blaming thing on the race costs. But it’s a big issue. I would assume cost per participant is up also because of the lower numbers also.

When I first raced boulder peak it was a 2500 person race. It’s hard to believe it was ever like that if you race it now. So you don’t have as many people to spread that cost across.

I think of it as a cost per hour. I mean 5ks are 40-50 bucks in some places. I just can’t justify that for what would be a miserablely long time at this point lol.

I think my concern is that I think the sport has a cost issue. I think it has an IM issue which has its own cost fleecing system going. I think the problem I see is that the local events, they aren’t trying to behave in that manner. They want the 1st timer, they want the person who’s riding a 27 year old bike out of the closet. Those people make the sport healthy. But I don’t know if they can continue to bring those people in in great numbers when their small town usa events have costs associated with them, that they can’t get around. That’s the issue I see is that we all complain about all the costs. I am good friends with several RD’s who do local stuff and also RD for IM events. Those are good people that want to help grow the sport, and there are tons of local RD’s with the same goal and motives. They just want to provide races. But they are getting pinched at every corner too.

So yes there is a cost factor but there is also a cost realization that I think really is hurting grass root attempts. No longer can you just get by on bare bones etc. Everything is CYA, permitted out for everything etc.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I think we’re going to see the same thing at the college level for club teams too. I wasn’t fully paying attention to what happened at Iowa State, but apparently two club rowers died I believe. When that happened they put every club under review and there are significantly more strict guidelines for the clubs that were considered higher risk. Needless to say the triathlon club fell under that and it’s going to make just training as a team more difficult. They also can no longer host their big fundraiser triathlon. It’s a mess.

Everyone wants a no risk society it’s insane.

We’ve got something that is just getting started, and it looks interesting. I cannot vouch for the accuracy of my assumptions, but I’ve been watching this unfold on Facebook, and may try it this summer. A local tri group is starting to hold “mock tris” of various distances, as training races… very much like club cycling used to be. They meet out at a state park, in a designated swimming cove. They ride and run on park roads with little too traffic. As far as I know, there is no costs involved, other than the $5 day pass, to get into the park. There are no results, awards, or support. I’m sure some club members bring stuff like coolers and snacks, and I have seen some photos with bike racks, for practicing transition. Everyone is self supported and self timed. They do of course request helmets, and folks to use a orange tow buoy during the swim, for safety. They held a couple in 2021, and it was a hit, and they held them every month last summer. I remember thinking how crazy… to hold those… without just making it an official race. I thought to myself I wasn’t all that interested in “mock” anything. Well, this thread has me rethinking that, and I’m understanding why they don’t want to organize an official race, and would rather just go out and have fun training together. I just might have to go check it out this year.

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Athlinks / Strava

All it takes is one person getting kinda hurt at one of those for *everything* to go wrong.

There are ways that you can do this -- e.g., work with the park, they'll ask for the club insurance (assuming it's a USAT club), then just make sure that everyone who participates is a member of the club (otherwise, you're not covered because of the way the USAT insurance works). You can offer a trial membership of the club as a potential option to let new people in the door...but you need something beyond an entry fee in order to get people under the policy.

Unfortunately, when putting anything that resembles an event on that isn't "hey, let's get a couple friends together to do something," you HAVE to assume something will go wrong. Because the odds just aren't in your favor.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

I’ve looked at their website, and follow their fb page, and haven’t been able to find anything about sign ups or insurance (they have a sign up to join for coaching, but I see nothing for training get togethers). It looks like a coaching group. I think they are still at the “hey let’s get together and train” stage. I did sign up for their emails, as I am intrigued.

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Athlinks / Strava

So the real issue is this. There is a huge difference in your buddies getting together and “training” together vs an actual “club” or certified coach event (that is no charge). The club event if it’s an “official” event event with zero entry fee, there is likely some type of liability there. If you just show up with friends and train, if something happens there is no real liability on any person.

But if you as a club have an actual event/training event that is a “fake race” even if it’s not timed etc, there is real liability on the club. So whether it’s free, whether it’s not really timed, that’s irrelevant. If a club/coach does any activities there is real liability now involved. So what usually happens is those club events come with waivers and/or “small fee” attached to said event.

There was another local tri store in our area that put on “free” events for a year (Duathlon and tri) . Was low key events but was actual an event. Had timing, placing, waivers signed….it was simply free. I talked to the owner and he told me after the initial year, it wasn’t really worth it to do it for free for 40 people and then if only 40 people did it when it was free, it def wasn’t going to. E worth the hassle if 21 people paid $45 for a “low budget” race. (I had 10 people every time they did a free event, and I donated money to it and also “volunteered” to help T area on race day).

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I'm not here to get anybody in trouble. I am here to explain what USAT insurance does and doesn't cover in this scenario.

USAT coaching insurance will cover you and two athletes doing something training related. Anything beyond that is *not* covered.

USAT club insurance gets you a whole lot of leeway to do stuff in person -- but every person *must* be a member of the club in order for that to work (and ideally, they're all USAT members on top of that).

USAT race insurance usually requires a.) sanctioning, and then b.) you're going to need everybody to either be a USAT member or purchase a one-day waiver for that to fly.

Speaking super generally, this is one reason why the split from Olympic development cycles from age group athletes have worked really well for running and swimming (RRCA clubs can do a lot of fun stuff, including the whole one-off races you're talking about, without permits etc. but still can have insurance). I'm still a little concerned that the primary focus of youth and junior certification under USAT has been to try to fill the Olympic development pipeline instead of building larger youth teams that get people to love the sport...but I'm also going to let Vic get her feet wet in her job before deciding where to come down on USAT at this point.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

They do have a group sign up form on their website, with no mention of fees or insurance. I did see where the person running it, is a USAT coach. But that’s the only place USAT is mentioned. It looks like anyone can become a member by submitting the form. I have not gone this far, so I have no idea what comes next. I also cannot confirm what kind of waivers may take place for folks who show up for a “training event”. I’ve been following their FB page for a couple years, and have met some of the folks at sanctioned events. It looks like a fun group, making things work at a basic level.

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Athlinks / Strava

One of the issues I’ve always had with usat junior numbers is that there are youth races put on by private organizations (YMCA for example) that don’t need kids to be usat members to race. So they were in the sport but weren’t accounted for in some board room meeting when looking at “numbers”.

There was about 8 years where half my juniors were usat members only because they raced the DL circuit but more that never joined usat cus they didn’t need to when they were racing local youth only events and triathlon training only in summers (I coached under an YMCA programming that insured me and didn’t need usat insurance). That is the case for many areas where they just literally only raced 1-2 youth only events for fun and that was that. I believe the largest youth event in the Country is non usat and doesn’t need to as they have private financing to cover liability. It’s so big it takes full day for the entire event to be completed.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I started in 2012 and the only way I found ST was through my trainer, otherwise, there really isn’t much to offer.

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TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

I think part of the problem is that you are referring to the situation we find ourselves in living in Australia, where even second hand bikes are stupid expensive currently. The world in the US of A is quite a bit different probably. I don't think you get 8 options of P2s for under 2k in Australia (let alone in your part of Australia, wherever you are) if you do a search. I know I'd get lucky where I am to even find a couple of decent options, and all too highly priced.

This is what is happening:

I can play three games a weekend two drop in and one adult league game for less than $40 a week. Basically 5 hours of ice time for less than $10 an hour in Colorado, why in the world would I not do that instead race? I’ll still go do s/b/r, but as a sport? Not unless I’m really feeling up to it. The bike costs aren’t the problem, it’s the ongoing costs, that needs to be fixed.

We can race bikes here for $15 for a race, do the odd Grand Fondo with heaps of hills 160 km to 320 all for no more than $200.

If I want a timed event I can do a park run, or one of the bigger trail runs if that is what I am after.

To race bikes I use my 2012 r3 $1000 and for run races a pair of nike vapor fly things once per year.


Tri is a very expensive sport, assuming in the $2000 or under second hand bike, then add in around $1000 more for shoes, wet suit, clothes etc. Ok not too bad.


Pool entries
race entries, sprints and OD are hundreds of dollar
If IM bring $1000
Travel to races is the biggy, fuel, eating, accomodation.


Maybe it was always this way, and the 40-60 AG have just decided to stop blowing money on an increasingly expensive facilitated exercise day. The kicker is a triathlon isn't even a race for all but a very small number.


The 5 k park run or cat 3 bike race are always races and they cost nothing or next to nothing.

So cycling can account for the health of the sport in both bike sales and racing numbers. I would guess there are more people who don’t race in the sport of cycling than actually participant in an “race”.

Most masters swim programs are under a masters designation membership/fee each year. It’s probably more common for a masters athlete to have to pay for the yearly masters “membership” than programs that don’t charge that.

But Triathlon is a sport that only classifies you when you are either racing in a race or a federation member. There is no “I identify as a non racing triathlete” classification. So said person is lost and oh no the sport is in decline yet I’m willing to bet many still are active in endurance community. Of course many “one and doners” do their IM and quit endurance sports all together. So yeah federation numbers are then in decline and obviously races will go away when there is no need to have a race. But there is also a segment of triathlon that is unaccounted for or account in another sport (non tri bike purchase etc).

There is no “lifestyle” choice. It’s either the sport is healthy because race numbers (and by way of insurance requirement essentially federation membership) are up or it’s not healthy because race numbers are down. Said federation cant account for the person taking a 2 year hiatus or 12 year racing hiatus because they are raising a family. Many still train even if a min level etc they just get lost in the accounting.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Not sure if this has been asked/answered already but what is this "magazine" thing all you guys are talking about.... Pretty sure that is the first question the younger athletes getting into this sport will ask.... AS said above at some point i think in youtube, GTN, GCN do an amazing job at that... and you saved the $5 from the magazine to put on a pack of gel...

IMHO, the problem with triathlon ain't the bike. And it ain't running.

It's the swimming part.

What percent of people live close enough to a pool AND can afford the fees/membership dues AND can get over to it often enough to make it worth it? I'm not talking some year-round tri athlete who in "dire straights" will use their vasa. I'm talking average joes.

IMHO swimming is what makes it an elitist sport. Come at me bro.

Red Cross released a study that 80% of the population *claim* they can swim, but 44% admit they would fail basic swim skill tests consisting of: Those skills are: floating or treading for 1 minute, jumping into deep water and coming up for air, spinning around in the water and then finding a way out, getting out of a pool without a ladder and swimming one pool length without stopping.

https://www.local3news.com/...e9-1b186d16b035.html



So when 1/2 the population can't/won't/don't swim, your sport is "elitist" by default.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

GREAT Point!

I also do think the bike is expensive

Problem solved

Let’s eliminate the swim and bike


PERFECT

Problem solved

There has always been ebb and flow with the sport. Here are some of the previous articles Dan has written:

2014 State of Triathlon:
2014 State of Triathlon Finale
2001 Rise and Fall of a Triathlon Series


An entry level triathlon bike is what $3,500? has this kept up with Inflation from 2001? Just saw a 2016 Cervelo P2 listed for $1,450.

You can find some race entry fees that are a bargain for perspective here is the cost of a Bonelli Park Triathlons from 1987 $40 and a current Triathlon local event ($45) up here in Washington.

Bonelli Park


Current Local Event:

Eliminate it all:

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Swimming is not more of a problem, but it is another barrier to be overcome. If you want to get into triathlon, you know you’ll need to be able to swim. If you lack the motivation even to learn that skill, the sport is not for you.

There are multiple ways to look at this. Yes, we want the sport to grow, but it will only ever attract people motivated by challenge; those people will learn to swim/swim better. Triathlon will never attract as many people as parkrun, but if it was that easy, many of us wouldn’t be interested either.

This is mostly the angle I was coming at.

Running is the lowest barrier to entry. Shoes, can do it anywhere. Shoot, some folks do it sans shoes.

Bike IMHO is next. People who think it takes a $10k bike are just to damned lazy to be bothered to think through the financials or the DIY repairs and bike fit/aero work. I bet my whiz bang Trinity with same bike fit is NOT hardly any faster than when I had my $500 all-in Felt DA dumpster find bike.

Swim is worst. It's already societally the most difficult barrier to entry, ignoring cost. Add pool membership and the cost of personal time, meaning having a good enough job that affords you the time to do this shit............you're already in an elite part of society.

This is why when bored or for filler fun I enter duathlons. I love to ride the bike and I don't "mind" running. Cheaper entry fees. No pool crap required.

I just get tired of folks claiming to "be competitive" that you "must" have the $10k bike. Folks are lazy at aero and bike fiting and the DIY things that save big money with the tri bike.

Freaking nice Dengfu framesets for like $600. All in 2x mech bike with modern width Chinese wheels for like $2000? Used Craigslist tri bike for $1k and some good bike fit and aero virtual elevation testing?

Eventually some seatpost clamp carbon stuff started to decompose and I could not source a replacement, so it's now just wall art. I still own/use that disc and 9+ and the power meter and the saddle.

My Trinity is NOT that much faster purely on frameset than the final project on my DA was. No way.

This: about $500 all in




To this: about $1500 all in

To your point triathlon hasn’t adapted where they should. Even in races there needs to be a Rec division. The cool thing about triathlon is you can race with all levels of athletes, the crappy thing is you get to race with all levels of athletes. But if you gave a couple friends who just want to do an event the option hey go run with your friends listen to music and you just need to make sure you’re not in peoples way or well there are a bunch of rules that if you don’t follow you may get removed from the course, you can’t race with your friends and you can’t listen to music. Almost no one is going to choose the second one.

We basically broke the feeder system when everyone else was building an option to help people still do an event without racing

@burnthesheep

It's true that with careful research and hopefully experienced friends, you can save a lot money on the bike stuff.

Still, there are a LOT of hidden costs that add up quickly to make it quickly not a huge savings compared to a new TT bike (I'm talking like $4k-5k range), and the hassle of getting the RIGHT used parts of the right size, and that work properly is a royal pain the rear.

I DIY'd my own road bike a few years ago and honestly, in retrospect I should have gone out and just bought a $4k (at the time) Di2 brand-new spec road bike, due to all the hassle I had in learning all the installation/repair stuff from scratch, and the countless hours lost in trial-error due to my complete lack of experience. (Yes I know youtube shows stuff, but trust me - it just scratches the surface when you have real problems.) It was absolutely a loss of money and time for me by the end, and I still don't benefit from the installation knowledge since I'm not a bike shop, so things like installing/removing parts like headsets, BBS, etc., are something I do so rarely that I have to re-learn it all from scratch if I do it again.

I wouldn't recommend to any newbie to go used for this reason, unless they were already die-hard into the fun of scrounging and researching used parts and/or had a close friend who was very knowledgable about what to buy and troubleshooting it.

DIY bike repair seems easy - until it's not. Then it's devilishly hard. (Stupid things like stuck seatposts, rusted-fused bolts, etc....)

I think swimming falls into the same category as tennis serving. If you cant' do a serve in tennis, you can't play. If you can't swim you can't do triathlon. There are barriers to entry to learn how to swim or learn how to serve (join a place that has a pool or tennis court, and for one you need goggles, the other you need a racket and balls), but beyond the basic user fees the costs are fixed, but there is a minimum skill to acquire. Our sport cannot eliminate swim costs to learn how to swim and improve just like tennis can't eliminate the cost learning how to serve and improve. It is part of the minimum cost base to acquire the technical skill

Biking you can do without a $18K bike or $4K wheels. A $500 bike and $500 of race wheels gets you enough speed that for most people it won't dramatically make a difference on beginner level performance. You can literally buy the equivalent bike race gear that Luc Van Lierde used to go 8:04 in Kona in 1996 for sub $1000. Our sport still attract people without expensive bike gear and intake those people into the sport. We can't eliminate cost of swimming. It is just part of the sport.

Personally my annual pool membership is $250 CAD, which I can use for something like 25 indoor pools and 10 outdoor pools in my city. I would not say that swimming where I live is for rich people only. It is one of the most accessible sports in the society where I live. I have done entire swim race seasons for $250CAD for pool membership and $400 to go in 6-8 local swim meets (no overnight hotels). Swimming is not a rich guy country club thing where I live, but I have cousins who live in parts of the world where it most definitely is a rich guy country club sport.

Swimming is definitely a rich-person activity where I live in Norcal! There are community pools to be had, but you'll be waking up at 12AM to rush the lane reservation and/or driving a ways in odd hours to get access. I think quite a few people in tri around here have pricey country club or high-end gym memberships. Even if you're signing up for the community pool, it's typically $8-10/swim so it adds up quick.

not good comparision cause the events are in different areas. The bonelli Park event is around $200 now

The "listening to music" I would guess applies to almost any sport that is on protected/closed roads. Like I dont think the PTB in our sport are going all "old man get off my lawn" by not allowing music. It's a safety issue especially when it's applied to the bike when almost all races *atleast in the US* are raced on open traffic roads. There is very few running events that I know of that run while in traffic, it's almost always on a closed venue. I agree they can make a REC division and take out pretty much a lot of the competitive rules (drafting, aid, etc), but I think there are *some* rules that are there for athlete's own safety. Those people who are taking selfies in the middle of run races, you'd endanger yourself and likely others, if you behaved like that on a bike in triathlon events. Now of course that makes me "get off my lawn" guy now, and I'll take that with the understanding that we race with real live traffic, run races and tough mudders, etc dont.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

£360 per year for my membership, which gives me use of 2 pools within a 15 mile radius. Not bad, but there are no adult lessons, no masters group, and the lane sessions are so infrequent and busy that I regularly have to share a (wide) lane with 6-10 others. Not ideal, but to access a better pool I’d have to drive over an hour each way and be there for 7am.
Once you can swim competently, it’s a relatively cheap activity. However if you didn’t learn as a kid, doing so as an adult is awkward and expensive.

Bonelli today is $70 for the Super Sprint and $85 for the Championship.

$85 to $100 seems standard for Olympic distance these days, but there are some bargains to be had generally these seem to be sponsored by the city's Parks and Rec department.

This, while I enjoyed building up the ten speed crit pig, it's been huge waste of time and effort. $5 K USD would get me on a 12 speed 105 Di2 Cervelo or Trek equivalent.

As for pool being barrier or Tri being harder, its all relative. I did an IM in 2008 after doing basically nothing but work for ten years building a career, getting a house etc.

My swimming background was did learn to swim so I didn't drown. For 6 months I swam 3 times a week and did 1:08 at IM AZ for the swim en route to an 11:30 IM.

IM is not hard to do, yes there are a few more hurdles compared to doing a park run, but my sub 18 park run was a lot harder than my IM done on literally 6 months of 10-15 hours a week of training coming from nothing.

Around here (Australia), Triathlon is not well supported, in our local cycling scene, running scene we have numerous sub 9 IM, heaps of sub 10 an Olympian or two and people who came out the water at IM first, second or third.

They are all out riding in bunches racing, doing park runs, nearly all of them more talented than the people in the 40-60 AG who are placing in out local tris. They all say the same thing, too expensive and the fun is gone. Nearly all of them on the back of 12 months focus and they do this every so often, win or place in the top three in their AG at IM or 70.3

The bulk of the AG talent ditched tri a long time ago

I haven’t swam since covid so might be more difficult now but when I was racing I would wake up at 5 so I could get to the pool before it got busy then drive home to get kids ready for daycare. I was 12 minutes from the pool but an hour swim was basically 2 hours door to door. Cost wasn’t an issue for me but time was a huge barrier with kids. When I had no kids it wasn’t a big deal but even with a nice pool close to me it was still almost an added hour to the workout. A bike can be expensive but you can bike for an hour in an hour and be done. Run for an hour in an hour but an hour swim takes much longer even in best situations

And no clue if swimming in my pool is harder now that I think they are still doing reservations.

Edit: I should say I woke up at 4:30 when I had kids and about 5:30 when I would go straight to work after the swim.

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Twitter - Instagram

When new people approach me about the sport I try to keep it as simple as possible. To the point that I'll play dumb and maybe hide my bike, paincave, etc.

The first conversation hopefully goes like this:

Them: "What do I need to do to do a triathlon? Not one of those full triathlons in Hawaii. Just that one over at the lake in the summer"


me: "you need to be able to swim, own a bike you can ride the distance, and run"


Them: "Do I need anything fancy?"


me: "nope"

If the conversation goes further, I just try to get them to eat the elephant. You don't start with EVERYTHING. Part of the joy is the journey. Do the first race on whatever you have. Take from that the lessons you learn and decide if you want more and want to go further down the rabbit hole.

The worst hole I've seen people fall into is looking into doing some local tri in mid-July. Suddenly they think they need a $800 wetsuit, bike fitting, pool membership, smart goggles, new TT bike, bike computer, indoor trainer, carbon shoes, coach, etc, etc.

This is true for people with and "without" money. I've seen people without funding do their first race and then decide they can't afford the equipment to do more races. Even though they had a good time.

I've also seen Freds sign up for a local sprint and buy 10k worth of equipment and then decide they don't like triathlons.

I see your point, but you know the sport has a problem when you have to hide the actual, real expenditures of a typical regular participant.

It would be a lot better if we could be up front about what it ACTUALLY costs to participate in this sport as a regular, and not just as a bare-bones one-n-doner, and at a level reasonable for a new participant. (meaning they don't need the latest and greatest, but they aren't going to go on a deep dive into Slowtwitch classifieds to build a bike.)

I think my point was that I wasn't hiding anything. I was being honest.

You don't need anything fancy to do a local race in the summer. You need a bike, shoes, and goggles (arguably optional). But most people considering a tri at least have SOME bike. I did my first road tri on a mountain bike in basketball shorts. And I had a blast.

The only thing you need is to be willing/able to swim, bike, and run consistently. That would get 95% of the people there.

The discussion would be totally different if someone came and said "hey, I hear you do those longer triathlons. I've always wanted to complete a full distance and I'm a pretty competitive person...."

I'm 100% not arguing that tri isn't expensive. It's absolutely nuts. But really only for those of us trying to squeeze the last 5% out of whatever our genetics will allow.

Yes, but doing triathlon for more than a one-n-doner will likely require a lot more outlay.

Anybody can do ONE triathlon on a tricycle.

Very few suffer for more than one season on a markedly subpar bike. And I think that's the point of this thread - attracting not just one-doners, but actual regular newcomers who last more than a race or a season.

Point taken.
But I know lots of people who show up to local races with their commuter and have a great time.

Different question(s):

How many people on ST and this board are doing tris on their ten-speed beater bike, no wet suit don't need one and $27 Walmart running shoes.

How many of us bought and stuck with that second-hand bike? Tri bikes are essentially the biggest waste of money as you don't need one to go fast, but how many of us have a road bike with a forward facing seat post, clip ons, second hand or chinese race wheels?

That's just the fixed costs, race entries and travel will kill you and as pointed out earlier, triathlon is in the main done by people who are not very good at running or biking

You seem helbent on correlating people spending money on something they enjoy somehow affecting participation rates?

Travel costs??? You don't need to travel interstate or overseas to participate.

People 'choose' to buy nice gear or travel to compete because they can, it's a choice. It's not a requirement.

Just like people chose to buy nice clothes, it's not a requirement to keep warm.

Costs of events and getting and staying there are reducing numbers in Australia

That's awesome, love the panniers, is there an esky which goes on the back for race day nutrition?

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I was tempted, Hahaha

No they aren't. Why are you making stuff up to try and talk down the sport? Every IM branded even sells out. And why do you even need to travel, there is a IM/Challange event in every state expect SA and NT...?

No they aren't. Why are you making stuff up to try and talk down the sport? Every IM branded even sells out. And why do you even need to travel, there is a IM/Challange event in every state expect SA and NT...?

You are aware Oz is a big place, so Penrith for example is still a long way from places in NSW.

Are events selling, out, I am getting emails every month trying to convince me to part with my cash.

Oceania Open 2022 (ironman.com)

Port Mac 70.3 sold out

If people chose to live hundreds of miles away that is not a triathlon specific problem, it's a geography problem. What, should Ironman subsidise travel costs for people who live greater than 300kms from the CBD... Crazy..

And yes events are selling out, how long since you did one? Or do you think because you are getting adverts for events 6-12 months out they aren't??

Edit... Penrith is only 58 mins out of Sydney..... ..???

Which drives cost for people who don't live in the city the event is in.

Not everyone lives in Sydney.

Thus it becomes more costly.

Iron Man NZ is not 6 to 12 months out and neither is IM OZ.

Triathlon is very expensive compared to other sports, I and others choose not to do it. Other people choose to do it.

So you are another one of those people who no longer participate but feel the urge to come on here whinging, righto. Guess that makes sense.

Really... Its like someone living in Alice Springs complaining surfing is too expensive because they have to travel 1,000kms to the nearest beach...

Just move on, enjoy your memories and leave others to enjoy and embrace the sport.

I'm saying some place along the way we made the sport less attractive, less accessible. It was easier and cheaper to jump into the sport and give it a go.

No one is saying RD should be putting on events in every town, but when we ran the local RD out of town compared to what we were able to do 20 years ago (club, local) we ended up with fewer IM branded in the main events, which inevitably drove costs up, especially for those who have to travel.

The sold out status has been marketed well since 2010, sold out or sold out. If you are doing IM OZ or NZ and have not entered and secured a place to stay by now chances are not to many people will be saying in February, heck I'll do Ironman.

How old are you and how long have you been doing the sport? Genuinely curious, so I can understand you perspective, maybe the sport is fine and people like myself are seeing problems that are not really problems, more so a wistful wish for something we had that maybe wasn't that good to begin with.

Why was it cheaper years ago-because bikes were more basic? Well basic cheap bikes are still readily available, and there are 10 year old carbon 'super bikes' for under $1k so really this isn't a significant barrier. I have already shown that for most people a road bike is only marginally slower than a TT bike, so there isn't even a need for a TT bike.

Brand new wetsuits can be bought from Wiggle for $140, let alone what's available second hand.

Travel-well travel to events would have always been an issue. If anything though airfares have never been more affordable (excluding the recent fuel/covid hikes..) so again not a valid point?

If you are talking a local tri event well looks like plenty on to me Triathlon Calendar Australia (runningcalendar.com.au) but again I'm not sure where you are coming from. Perhaps in the past there was a lot more weekly/monthly events at a local level?

Times change though, perhaps people just don't have the 'time' to do more regular events so save up for one or two 'big' events like a 70.3 or full. I know that's my situation. Id love to do the 2XU series but its to much of an impact on family time. My 'leave pass' is the one or two IM events per year.

I don't know, everyone always has rose colored glasses on when looking back and perhaps in 20 years time I'll be on here complaining about how bikes cost $50K and entry fees are $5k..?

But what I do know is people talking down something is not a way to encourage participation. What's going to be better for a newby-listening to a heap of old timers moan about how much better it was in their day, or someone still excited and pumped to encourage someone to give it a crack, to ignore the crap about it being too expensive..?

My old mate is the man in charge at The Event Crew and they run most of these race series in Qld where you never NEED to buy a wetsuit and can ride a cheap ass, standard road bike or an old beater bike like you see in the video.All of his races are easy travel from Brissie or the Gold Coast and no M-Dot Tattoos required. The sport CAN BE affordable for everyone.
Our Events Archive - The Event Crew

I don't disagree in general, but when it came time to review an "entry level bike", and that was before supplements, magic brain illuminators and everything, he did exactly what Triathlon Magazine Canada did now - voted with his sponsorship contract.

The "entry level" bike "reviewed" by Taren was a $3500 Ventum, and he didn't even mention the possibility that this was nothing like an entry level price.


I see these "reviews" by Taren and other media outlets, but then when I am Announcing at the Multisport Canada Triathlon Events, for the Give-It-Tri race - an event geared totally to first timers with a 300m swim/ 10km bike/ 2.5km run, that I will Announce at 4 - 5 times a year - I'll see 200+ people starting the race with all manner of bikes racked in transition - beat up old mtn bikes, city commuting bikes, fixies, cheap road bikes etc . . . these are the heart and soul of entry level triathlon . . but no one ever asks me for my opinion from what is the REALITY of what really goes on out there at races/events! :-)

ANY kind of bike will get you going in Triathlon!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

At the sprint I did last month, my 2008 QR with 10s 105 was one of the highest tech bikes there. There probably wasn't more than 15 "real" tri bikes in the entire race. But lots of older/less expensive road bikes, and plenty of mountain bikes.

Shortly after transition opened up, only 2 tri bikes so far:



In the last decade, I've only done sprints, and this is what I typically see. Few tri bikes, mostly road bikes, and quite often the mountain bikes outnumber the tri bikes...

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"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"

At the sprint I did last month, my 2008 QR with 10s 105 was one of the highest tech bikes there. There probably wasn't more than 15 "real" tri bikes in the entire race. But lots of older/less expensive road bikes, and plenty of mountain bikes.


So why don't we actually hear "you can ANY bike to get going with training for and doing your first triathlon" from the influencers out there like Taren, and the Triathlon media?

This project never got off the ground, but about 10 years ago Simon Whitfield brought together a bunch of keep people in Triathlon and just generally in Sport in Canada for a one day brainstorming session to come up with a program that would be low cost, and get as many kids into swim/bike/run as we could. I was honored to be asked by Simon to participate in this. We concluded that we needed to find a bike sponsor to supply simple, easily adjustable, possibly single speed bikes that first timers could use. These events would be done at Rec Centers with pools. Swim a few laps. Run out to the Parking lot. Jump on the bike - ride a few laps around the Rec Center, then, run around an adjacent sports field and the parking lot to the Finish! It would be all over in 10 minutes or less! This is how you expose HUGE numbers of kids and others to triathlon!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog