t would be nice if we could grant the chinese gal the same benefit of the doubt, until we have at least some shred of a decent reason to think otherwise.
I might be able to do this but can you stretch this logic over all of the track sprinters? I can’t.
A little introspection might serve everyone well. Perhaps if everyone posed and answered these questions it will help avoid such embarrasing situations…
1. How much can a person improve within a year before it’s OK accuse them of cheating?
**2. By how large a margin can a person break a world record before its OK to accuse them of cheating? **
**3. Are my answers consistant for all competitors or do I hold my countrymen/women to a lower standard than Chinese? **
“Actually for a northern European point of view the USA is a doping/PED heaven.”
really? i thought scandinavia (finland specifically) was the doping/PED heaven. just goes to show how wrong generalizations can be.
Here’s Katie’s time progression in the 800 since last year. Courtesy of USA Swimming website time search option.
Date Time
Stroke Course Age Time Meet Meet Date
800 FR LCM 14 9:02.70 2011 NC WAVE v. CUBU Dual Meet 5/6/2011
800 FR LCM 14 8:59.05 2011 PV LC Distance Meet 6/18/2011
800 FR LCM 14 8:43.50 2011 PV LC Senior Champs 7/14/2011
800 FR LCM 14 8:36.05 2011 Speedo Jr National Champs 8/8/2011
800 FR LCM 14 8:43.53 2011 Speedo Jr National Champs 8/8/2011
800 FR LCM 14 8:30.14 2012 Missouri Grand Prix 2/10/2012
800 FR LCM 15 8:33.48 2012 NCSA Junior National Swim 3/20/2012
800 FR LCM 15 8:25.85 2012 NC Charlotte UltraSwim 5/10/2012
800 FR LCM 15 8:19.78 USA Olympic Team Trials 6/25/2012
800 FR LCM 15 8:27.91 USA Olympic Team Trials 6/25/2012
800 FR LCM 15 8:23.84 Summer Olympic Games 7/28/2012
“Actually for a northern European point of view the USA is a doping/PED heaven.”
really? i thought scandinavia (finland specifically) was the doping/PED heaven. just goes to show how wrong generalizations can be.
Nah, those countries don’t have tv ads for doping products during commercial breaks of sporting events. I’ll have you guess what’s the only country with ads like that.
t would be nice if we could grant the chinese gal the same benefit of the doubt, until we have at least some shred of a decent reason to think otherwise.
I might be able to do this but can you stretch this logic over all of the track sprinters? I can’t.
It’s going to be absolutely disgusting when Jeter wins the 100m.
Dan,
Where you one of those people who were shocked and dismayed when you heard about Mark McGuire’s and Sammy Sosa’s steroid use during the great home run era in baseball? I always wondered just who those people could be. I couldn’t believe we had so many Americans that were that gullible. Do I know anything definite about Ye Shiwen? Heck no. I’m just letting my fellow STers know that there will be zero shock and zero dismay from me. I’m allowed to form my own opinions about performances. Jingoism, nationalism, or common sense? Ask me my opinion about that FloJo poster you’ve got hanging on your wall sometime.
"…you might say that it’s more likely that the chinese gal is doping, because of the chinese “system” and the history and culture the treatment of sport as a weapon of national prestige and imperialism. "
America has the same "system", well maybe less of a formal system but similiar motivation.
I was mostly thinking of Norway, Sweden and Denmark. You are right about Finland; Finland has had a huge doping problem, especially in cross country skiing, but also in track. So Finland is a good example of what happens when you have a doping culture.
Do you really think the US has a anti doping culture?
“Do you really think the US has a anti doping culture?”
think of a culture. any culture. you’ll find it in my country.
A little introspection might serve everyone well. Perhaps if everyone posed and answered these questions it will help avoid such embarrasing situations…
1. How much can a person improve within a year before it’s OK accuse them of cheating?
**2. By how large a margin can a person break a world record before its OK to accuse them of cheating? **
**3. Are my answers consistant for all competitors or do I hold my countrymen/women to a lower standard than Chinese? **
Bradley said it best when it comes to people who would accuse another of doping.
Wiggins said: 'I say they’re just fg ws. I cannot be doing with people like that.
'It justifies their own bone-idleness because they can’t ever imagine applying themselves to do anything in their lives.
‘It’s easy for them to sit under a pseudonym on Twitter and write that sort of st, rather than get off their arses in their own lives and apply themselves and work hard at something and achieve something.
'And that’s ultimately it. C*s.’
Just work harder!
Please…can we calm down for a second on everything from Scandinavia is perfect and the US sucks? You are comparing a very hetrogenous country of 300M people that plays almost every sport under the sun, by people who have settled there from all cultures to largely homogenous Scandinavian countries where only certain sports are prominient . In the US, you’ll probably see every type of sporting culture that exists. Don’t throw the entire nation under the bus on account of the dopers that exist in some sports. If your country had 300M people doing all these sports, there would be some bad apples too…and on this side of the pond, there are many that suspect the medal sweeps by Norway in the mid 90’s in the peak of the EPO era in various winter sports (rightly or wrongly). No nation is perfect, let’s give the athletes the benefit of the doubt and only throw them under the bus when there is strong data to corroborate the mudslinging.
“As far as I’m concerned they lost the benefit of doubt”
what i wish you would consider is that this is not a case of “they.” it’s a case of “she.” a 16-year-old. the equivalent of a sophomore in HS. no different than your daughter or granddaughter or niece. now, maybe, in the end, you will find a case of doping. however, if you do, it’s child abuse. it’s sticking a needle in the arm of a child; or sticking a pill down her throat; in order to achieve the aggrandizement of a group of old men.
but that’s if that happened. the alternative is it didn’t happen, and that’s the alternative that we choose as a default: in sport, and certainly on this forum.
Just a minor and perhaps pedantic point: Finland in not part of Scandinavia. But yes, their reputation is not good and many remember the World Ski Championship in Lahti, 2001. Six Finns were caught doping.
“Actually for a northern European point of view the USA is a doping/PED heaven.”
really? i thought scandinavia (finland specifically) was the doping/PED heaven. just goes to show how wrong generalizations can be.
Just a minor and perhaps pedantic point: Finland in not part of Scandinavia. But yes, their reputation is not good and many remember the World Ski Championship in Lahti, 2001. Six Finns were caught doping.
“Actually for a northern European point of view the USA is a doping/PED heaven.”
really? i thought scandinavia (finland specifically) was the doping/PED heaven. just goes to show how wrong generalizations can be.
I was going to say that many beileve Finland is not part of Scandinavia and you just said it in certaintity. What the is the origin of Suomi? Where’t them part pf Sweden?
I think it’s secendary for this discussion but still curious to hesr your opinion,
Being of Finnish descent, leave them alone, they invented the sauna 
I was mostly thinking of Norway, Sweden and Denmark. You are right about Finland; Finland has had a huge doping problem, especially in cross country skiing, but also in track. So Finland is a good example of what happens when you have a doping culture.
Do you really think the US has a anti doping culture?
Fine. Your forum, your rules. I’ll start talking to my cat about my thoughts on this topic.
Linguistically and historically Norway, Sweden and Denmark are very similar. Finland has a very different language and there are also some other differences. But they, as well as Iceland, are part of what is called the Nordic Countries.
The terms “Soumi” and “Scandinavia” originate from very different languages and are not related.
Who is ruled by whom, and what is part of what, has changed several times. In recent times the leadership tends to be determined based on who wins the most medals in the Winter Olympics since this is a much more efficient mechanism than war. By tradition dopers are ostracized and often given as a ritual sacrifice to sacred polar bears that roam the streets.
I was going to say that many beileve Finland is not part of Scandinavia and you just said it in certaintity. What the is the origin of Suomi? Where’t them part pf Sweden?
I think it’s secendary for this discussion but still curious to hesr your opinion,
Fine. Your forum, your rules. I’ll start talking to my cat about my thoughts on this topic.
where in his post did slowman threaten to ban you if you didn’t agree with him?
