winner goes 8:14, within a hair’s breadth of a new WR.
i saw a teaser for piers morgan, and the subject was, “is she or isn’t she,” referencing the 16 year old chinese swimmer and whether she’s doping. now, you might say that it’s more likely that the chinese gal is doping, because of the chinese “system” and the history and culture the treatment of sport as a weapon of national prestige and imperialism.
exact same thing we used to say in the 90s about doping in the peloton, and why the u.s. riders are clean and only the euros are dirty.
this isn’t to say we should also treat the winner of the women’s 800m with suspicion too. it’s to say that we ought not to cast aspersions on either of these swimmers. the chinese swimmer under so much scrutiny is 16 years old. the winner of the 800m, who was arguably not supposed to win this race, decimated the field. she is 15 years old. and american.
i don’t for a minute think katie ledecky was doping, and i doubt many of you do either. it would be nice if we could grant the chinese gal the same benefit of the doubt, until we have at least some shred of a decent reason to think otherwise.
this isn’t to say we should also treat the winner of the women’s 800m with suspicion too. it’s to say that we ought not to cast aspersions on either of these swimmers. the chinese swimmer under so much scrutiny is 16 years old. the winner of the 800m, who was arguably not supposed to win this race, decimated the field. she is 15 years old. and american.
Most elite swimmers post big time gains as they break into the elite ranks. They refine or alter strokes, find the right coach(es), perfect training, and mature both mentally and physically. Occasionally the big time gains will be made at an Olympics when the world is focusing on them. I posted Ian Thorpe’s progression in another thread and demonstrated that he did not have a 5 second PB between events or even within one year. He did, however, post some big time gains as he emerged on the scene. He did not do so again.
My concern (and others do not share it) is that Ye Shiwen had already emerged onto the scene and from what I could discover had posted large gains in her PB times. She then, while already in the truly elite ranks, put up a remarkable 5+ second gain in a 400 meter race between events. From what I have found, Ledecky took 5.15 seconds off her Olympic qualifying time to win an 800 meter race. This is remarkable but not necessarily suspicious. What I would like to see is her PB times leading up to the Olympic qualifiers and when her elite training regime began.
After all the discussion on this forum, I was thinking about this in terms of Soni’s 200 Breast WR and how her turnover was so much faster than everyone else. As I said that, it occurred to me that was part of the argument against the Chinese swimmer, that her turnover looked like an open 100 free and not the end of an IM.
This line of thought certainly revealed how I was just as guilty of predjudicial thinking as I have often accused the media, because at no point in the actual race did I think to myself, “She must be on drugs.” Because she is an American.
Chad
this isn’t to say we should also treat the winner of the women’s 800m with suspicion too. it’s to say that we ought not to cast aspersions on either of these swimmers. the chinese swimmer under so much scrutiny is 16 years old. the winner of the 800m, who was arguably not supposed to win this race, decimated the field. she is 15 years old. and american.
Most elite swimmers post big time gains as they break into the elite ranks. They refine or alter strokes, find the right coach(es), perfect training, and mature both mentally and physically. Occasionally the big time gains will be made at an Olympics when the world is focusing on them. I posted Ian Thorpe’s progression in another thread and demonstrated that he did not have a 5 second PB between events or even within one year. He did, however, post some big time gains as he emerged on the scene. He did not do so again.
My concern (and others do not share it) is that Ye Shiwen had already emerged onto the scene and from what I could discover had posted large gains in her PB times. She then, while already in the truly elite ranks, put up a remarkable 5+ second gain in a 400 meter race between events. From what I have found, Ledecky took 5.15 seconds off her Olympic qualifying time to win an 800 meter race. This is remarkable but not necessarily suspicious. What I would like to see is her PB times leading up to the Olympic qualifiers and when her elite training regime began.
According to the interview she gave she has gone from an 8.34 to an 8.14 this season.
Personally i’m in the ‘innocent until proven guilty’ camp and my comments in the other thread about Ledeky’s result are said in jest just having a dig at you all after the dig at the TeamGB cycling success
The reason people have to think Ye Shiwen doped was her improbably fast final 100. Normal girls aren’t faster than guys, except in ridiculous events like a 5x Ironman or 10x Ironman. That isn’t to say that the best girls couldn’t hold the top men’s 200free pace for 100m or something like that, but in the same event, over the same distance that simply doesn’t happen under normal circumstances…
Does anyone know if this is going to be replayed on tonight’s prime time show? I can’t get the NBC website to function properly to show. I’d like to watch the local girl win.
According to the interview she gave she has gone from an 8.34 to an 8.14 this season.
This is a start but you really need more to make any kind of assessment. Ian Thorpe suggested that he took 5 seconds off in a year. I don’t recall if he was just over or just under five seconds but it was in one year and 8 months with at least one meet in between. What we need to know is when did she post the 8:34 and under what conditions. Had she qualified in Omaha with 8:34 and then won with 8:14, I would suggest that something was not quite right.
USA is not considered a clean country when it comes to doping. Actually for a northern European point of view the USA is a doping/PED heaven. The reason is the totally lack of willingness to fight PED use. And if I am not wrong, the USOC sent 20-30 cheaters to the Atlanta Olympic in 96, that tells me that doping is institutionalized on a high level.
You can just look at letsrun.com today. US track stars are teaming of with convicted and banned agent/trainer Block http://www.letsrun.com/2012/block-0803.php
The reason people have to think Ye Shiwen doped was her improbably fast final 100. Normal girls aren’t faster than guys, except in ridiculous events like a 5x Ironman or 10x Ironman. That isn’t to say that the best girls couldn’t hold the top men’s 200free pace for 100m or something like that, but in the same event, over the same distance that simply doesn’t happen under normal circumstances…
I thought that was pretty well established…
OK, but it wasn’t as if she actually outswam Lochte in total; he still beat her by a lot overall. it’s a 400IM… surely not that big a stretch to figure pacing has a lot to do w/ how fast/slow your last piece of freestlye ends up being and could skew in a direction that seems extreme when removed from the context of the whole race.
She wasn’t quicker than Lochte over 100m. She was quicker than him over 1 specific 50m split out of a 400m race. And a number of the other men covered that 50m faster than her (and Lochte) so it’s fair to assume he was tying up somewhat.
Not saying she is 100% clean. Nobody other than her and her coaches know that for sure. But her performance is nowhere near as improbably as people are saying.
According to the interview she gave she has gone from an 8.34 to an 8.14 this season.
This is a start but you really need more to make any kind of assessment. Ian Thorpe suggested that he took 5 seconds off in a year. I don’t recall if he was just over or just under five seconds but it was in one year and 8 months with at least one meet in between. What we need to know is when did she post the 8:34 and under what conditions. Had she qualified in Omaha with 8:34 and then won with 8:14, I would suggest that something was not quite right.
Like I said i’m an ‘innocent until proven guilty’ kind of guy so as far as i’m concerned it was legit so i’m merely passing info I already know volunteered by the athlete herself in a lighthearted ‘trolling’ kind of way as a bit of payback for the ‘team GB cyclists are winning so must be doping’ thread.
I dont at any point intend to speculate if anyone is legit or not merely poke the bear
I agree. But the reaction comes from fans because way too often we have trumpeted a great feat only to find out 6 weeks later that they failed the testing and their results are tossed.
Blame the rampant dopers for this skepticism of every great accomplishment, not the fans.
