Why Harris-Walz would be a disaster for the country

Lavender Room
21

Some quotes from the Republican mayor:

I’m a lifelong Republican I do not recognize my partyThe Republican Party has been taken over by extremists that are committed to forcing people in the center of the political spectrum out of the partyTo those in the political middle: you don’t owe a damned thing to that political party You do not owe anything to a party that is out of touch and hellbent on taking our country backwardAnd you owe no misplaced loyalty to a candidate who is morally and ethically bankrupt In the spirit of the late senator John McCain, please join me in putting country over party and stopping Donald Trump, protecting our constitution and protecting the democracy of this great country.
.

22

I think that’s a fair assessment overall.

I hadn’t read up on his post-Floyd initiatives. This is from the first article that came up:

In terms of Walz’s view on safety and policing, Ellison said Walz was not entirely progressive on major components, but was “reasonable”. Following Floyd’s murder, Walz signed a number of bipartisan police reforms, including a ban on certain types of chokeholds and a ban on “warrior style” police training, which emphasizes the use of force. He also signed a ban of certain police restraints in schools, but later repealed the mandate following outcry from some police officers.

“His views aren’t scary. He’s not against accountability. He’s not against reform. He’s not for reallocation of funding, either,” Ellison said. “So I would count his views as moderate.”

Tim Walz’s handling of George Floyd’s killing by police comes back into view | Tim Walz | The Guardian

I agree with that characterization. My initial response to you was an attempt to frame the positions that I hear from more politically right-oriented people I know, not necessarily my own positions.

I lived in Minneapolis for several years in the early 2000’s.

I had interactions with the police twice - once on a traffic stop, once because I was drunk and acting suspiciously (I had lost my apartment key and was trying to get in through my own bedroom window at 2:00 am).

Both interactions were totally fine, respectful, I never felt threatened or unsafe as a citizen. At the time, I naively took that as evidence that policing in the Twin Cities was professional and progressive. After Philando Castille, George Floyd, and other things, I think it was more a reflection on the fact that I was a young, white, straight guy with a driver’s license from Wisconsin. There was/is certainly room for police reform in the Twin Cities and MN generally, and I think Walz’s efforts were in fact moderate and laudable.

23

I think a second Trump term would be catastrophic and I am definitely voting for Harris, but I do have some reservations. Mainly that Harris has shown little evidence that she can actually govern or lead. The GOP point to her role on the border, but the area I am much more familiar with is national space policy. Traditionally the VP leads the National Space Council. Under Pence, the Space Council actually made some very good decisions and policy. Under Harris it has been highly ineffective. So in my little area of things that I actually know about I would give her a grade of a D. The reality is that the Space Council is led by an appointed secretary that does all the work because the VPs don’t really care, but that is true of most executive offices.

That and the fact that most people I know who live in CA dislike her as much or more than Newsome.

24

Serious question:

Given that Trump has already told us that he will surround himself only with sycophants, yes men, grovellers, and yes men (he likes redundancy), do you think a second Trump term would better or worse for America than Harris/Walz.

Remember, in his first term for the first three years there were adults in the room to stop most of his really stupid ideas. This time there will be none of that. If you think there will be, you’re an idiot. I do not think that you are an idiot.

25

I think she will understand the reality and responsibility, and be more moderate than people think. I think she will be willing to work with Senate republicans, and I think she will be a strong presence on the international stage. I am prepared for House republicans to scream and howl and make her out to be an Ogre.

26

I have not read this thread - only the title.

But all I can think of is: Trump-Vance would NOT be a disaster? We have already seen what a Trump Presidency is, and no amount of sugar-coating by the Magabots will make me forget about that 4 year dumpster fire.

How is this even a choice? I’m baffled that this election will be close.

27

For balance, this memo summarizes Walz’ record from the conservative perspective, courtesy of VP Pence’s think tank operation, Advancing American Freedom:

“Don’t ever shy away from our progressive values. One person’s socialism is another person’s neighborliness.” Tim Walz on “White Dudes for Harris” Call, 7/29/2024

Fanned Flames of BLM Riots:

“Governor Walz had the ability and duty to use force and law enforcement to stop criminal violence, but he did not. Governor Walz was not willing to do what was necessary to stop the rioting right away because he was having a philosophical debate about whether the use of force should be used to stop violence.” 2020 Minnesota Senate Report (link)

“Allowed his adult daughter to access confidential information that she disseminated to general public and rioters,” which unnecessarily endangered police and National Guardsmen (link)

Turned MN into a Murder Capital:

During his time in office, the state murder rate has spiked by more than 50 percent (link)

Allowed violent criminals to burn down property all over Minneapolis with no recourse, yet approved of the 90-day imprisonment of Lisa Hanson for keeping her small business open during COVID lockdowns (link)

Cut Funding for Pregnant Women, Pushed Abortion-On-Demand:

Signed a bill allowing abortion up to birth (link)

Defunded pregnancy resource centers that support mothers (link)

Eliminated laws requiring informed consent, laws requiring doctors to treat infants born alive after abortion, and laws prohibiting doctors from coercing women to have abortions (link)

Turned MN into “Trans Refugee State”:

Signed legislation allowing children to be taken from their parents if parents don’t support their minor child receiving life altering surgeries or supposed medical treatments (link)

His Lt. Gov. Peggy Flanagan wore a “protect trans kids” shirt with a knife on it, two weeks before the Covenant School shooting in Nashville, TN (link)

Cracked Down on Churches:

During COVID, he reopened bars and kept churches closed, until the Minnesota Catholic Conference and the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod forced Walz’s hand (link)

Exacerbated the Border Crisis

Ran for Governor on a platform of turning Minnesota into a sanctuary state (link)

Ο Under his watch, an illegal alien killed three Minnesotans in front of two young children.

Signed a bill into law allowing illegal immigrants to obtain Medicare and driver’s licenses, paving the way for them to vote in elections (link)

Boosted Climate-Theater ‘Unicorn Energy’

Required Minnesota to generate all its electricity from carbon-free sources by 2040 (link) Implemented an electric vehicle mandate even more radical than Joe Biden’s (link)

Killed Innovation in Life-Saving Medicine

Created a price-capping prescription drug board, killing new innovation in medicine (link

28

Serious question:

Given that Trump has already told us that he will surround himself only with sycophants, yes men, grovellers, and yes men (he likes redundancy), do you think a second Trump term would better or worse for America than Harris/Walz.

Remember, in his first term for the first three years there were adults in the room to stop most of his really stupid ideas. This time there will be none of that. If you think there will be, you’re an idiot. I do not think that you are an idiot.

BleP, I think we all get it. You (and most of us) don’t like Donald Trump. Could we allow this thread to be about what sphere asked for, instead of just another of the dozens of threads where you, Kay, DSW, and Nutella remind us all that you think Trump sucks?

29

Walz as governor of MN legalized pot, guaranteed abortion rights and signed gun control laws the minute he had a legislature that allowed him to do so. He passed police reform after George Floyd, which gets equates with “soft on crime/hard on cops”>>

  1. What specifically will they do, or not do, that Trump will/won’t, that will be disastrous for the country?

<<See previous answer. Trumpy people I know worry the border will continue to be porous. Gun control and access to abortion laws will be passed/pushed for. The feds will continue with perceived handouts like student debt relief, thst blue collar folks who member went to college don’t get any benefit from. They will keep us financially and politically entrenched in a foreign war in Ukraine that “isn’t our business”. They will try to dilute the power/direction of the current conservative Supreme Court, which has been doing things the conservatives like on abortion, gun control and power of the administrative state. >>

Yes I feel like this is a good summary

30

Signed a bill into law allowing illegal immigrants to obtain Medicare and driver’s licenses, paving the way for them to vote in elections

Our Governor (Youngkin) just issued an EO on election security and cited over 6k noncitizens purged from the voter registration rolls who were automatically registered to vote through this process. That, as Ken is always quick to remind us, is not the same as “voter fraud” but it is a weakness in our electoral process that should be corrected. I think it’s fair to say we can assess the benefits of licensing noncitizen drivers as a separate issue, but that most would agree they should not be registered to vote through this process as noncitizens.

So put me down on the conservative side of the ledger on this issue. Kudos to Youngkin for correcting this in our state.

https://www.newsweek.com/thousands-non-citizen-voters-discovered-governor-1937025

31

Someone who says they will be more of a disaster than the alternative on these issues is either lying or delusional.

But, these are the big issues we need to address. In no order other than how they come to mind. And for virtually all of these both parties are at fault/responsible.

Social Security - we know the financing needs fixed in the next 10 years and we haven’t done it

Deficit spending - people have talked about like it will destroy the country for 40 years. Most of that time it was just not true. But now our politicians act like it doesn’t matter at all and it just keeps getting worse.

Immigration relation with Mexico - this is going to take both countries - we need to stop posturing and address it

Ukraine war - I think it would be a disaster if Russia is able to win in any sort of way and even more of a disaster if the war expands

Climate change - I am a huge pessimist on the prospect of actually doing anything about it, right now the biggest challenge in the US seems to be getting people to stop actively trying to make it worse

Honorable mentions - divide among the people. Good luck with this. Too many politicians love to make hay by making it worse. Hopefully father time can get to work on this one.
And a new generation of robber barons.

There’s my top 5 +2. Not to be found is crime, transgendered people being allowed to live their lives, homelessness, CRT, guns, gays, abortions, books, and woke.

Some of those are issues needing addressed, but they are being made into distractions.

32

For balance, this memo summarizes Walz’ record from the conservative perspective, courtesy of VP Pence’s think tank operation, Advancing American Freedom:

I do not think Harris/Walz would be a disaster, but it is clear that they will move the country as far to the left as Congress will let them. On the so-called culture war issues, they are quite progressive. The Biden Title IX regulation changes are a prime example of how that will play out when Congress won’t play nicely with the Executive branch. Implementation of those rules is now blocked by judicial injunctions in over half the country.

Other major concerns include the situations in Gaza, Ukraine, and Taiwan. Harris may be more likely to press for a cease-fire in Gaza than Biden, but Trump is likely to cede US interests in all three conflicts and is a worse choice all-around.

Unfortunately, neither party is willing to confront the 35 trillion dollar national debt.

33

Someone who says they will be more of a disaster than the alternative on these issues is either lying or delusional.

But, these are the big issues we need to address. In no order other than how they come to mind. And for virtually all of these both parties are at fault/responsible.

Social Security - we know the financing needs fixed in the next 10 years and we haven’t done it

Deficit spending - people have talked about like it will destroy the country for 40 years. Most of that time it was just not true. But now our politicians act like it doesn’t matter at all and it just keeps getting worse.

Immigration relation with Mexico - this is going to take both countries - we need to stop posturing and address it

Ukraine war - I think it would be a disaster if Russia is able to win in any sort of way and even more of a disaster if the war expands

Climate change - I am a huge pessimist on the prospect of actually doing anything about it, right now the biggest challenge in the US seems to be getting people to stop actively trying to make it worse

Honorable mentions - divide among the people. Good luck with this. Too many politicians love to make hay by making it worse. Hopefully father time can get to work on this one.
And a new generation of robber barons.

There’s my top 5 +2. Not to be found is crime, transgendered people being allowed to live their lives, homelessness, CRT, guns, gays, abortions, books, and woke.

Some of those are issues needing addressed, but they are being made into distractions.

Pretty much agree with your list. But it’s easier to fear-monger and paint your opponents as evil than have a respectful debate about the issues that matter most. It was Newt Gingrich who first proposed the notion of simply opposing everything your political opponents propose. That’s how we got to this place of such political toxicity.

34

I don’t think we currently have the positions of the Harris Walz ticket as to how they intend to govern
I don’t think we have a party platform from the Dem party as to their vision for the future for America. Yet.

I can be corrected.

without that I think what we have at the moment is:

  1. a track record of the Trump admin during his tenure as it relates to the policies implemented and results that occurred as they related to the most important issues the US voters faces today (border, crime, economy, inflation, foreign conflict etc)

  2. A party platform from the RNC and statements from the candidates as to how they intend to govern (seal the border, drill baby drill, etc etc)

  3. a track record of the Biden admin that included Harris as it relates to the policies implemented and results that occurred as they relate to the most important issues the US voters face today (border, crime, economy, inlfation, foreign conflict etc)

  4. some relatively vague discussion about policies as it relates to their positions in the last week (we’re going to lower prices, we’re going to make housing more affordable).

  5. the manner in which they have governed in their respective previous positions and the views they have previously expressed as to how to best govern as they see it.

I think that’s what we have to go on right now, which I think (for me) is not enough to answer some of the questions asked in the OP.

Influencing both of these, to me, are the “intangibles” which, to me, are:

  1. Trump and Vance. In the case of Trump I don’t think there’s much more to know about what he says, how he says it. Vance’s past positions (combined with current) and lack of overall experience

  2. Walz lack of national stage attention/knowledge.

  3. The way Biden campaigned vs. how he governed. The way the party and it’s supporters has covered for his “condition” (and Harris direct involvement in same) and what Harris has said in the recent past vs. what she is about to say about her “positions”. In other words, if Harris/Walz begin to say the “right” things now relative to governing “from the middle” etc, is there any real reason to believe anything she/they say.

Responding to you only. Not interested in getting in a pissing match because as I said above, frankly Harris Walz have not taken enough of a position on anything yet to even have this conversation.

35

I don’t think we currently have the positions of the Harris Walz ticket as to how they intend to govern
I don’t think we have a party platform from the Dem party as to their vision for the future for America. Yet.

Walz has a record of governing from the center-left, much of which I detailed above. Harris’ record is closely tied to Biden’s but, you know, VP. She’s along for the ride for the most part there.

Generally I think you’re right to hold your fire on answering those questions with any level of certainty. Walz will be along for the ride on this ticket, and Kamala, aside from a few priorities she’s established (signing the Trump-torpedoed border bill, for one), is a blank slate on specifics.

Her campaign website doesn’t have an Issues page. Nothing. Yet.

I suspect that will change following the DNC and formal nomination.

36

Immigration relation with Mexico - this is going to take both countries - we need to stop posturing and address it

Harris, Blinken, etc. had some success working with Mexico to get them to enforce their laws. The result was a dramatic, 40-50%, drop in crossings in January and a steady drop in the following months. July was lower than every month in 2019.

Despite that success there are still a lot of questions. I have seen no reporting on what we gave Mexico to get them to enforce their laws. While there was a drop in crossings from the countries that Harris was tasked with, Mexico and the Northern Triangle, there was a massive spike from the rest of the world.

The only real long-term answer is legislation. Harris says she will sign the immigration, asylum, and border security deal that Trump killed if elected.

37

frankly Harris Walz have not taken enough of a position on anything yet to even have this conversation.

A party platform might be instructive, but Harris’ Presidential campaign and Walz’ gubernatorial record might be better indicators of how they would govern when given the chance. Gonna vote R down-ballot.

38

A party platform might be instructive, but Harris’ Presidential campaign and Walz’ gubernatorial record might be better indicators of how they would govern when given the chance. Gonna vote R down-ballot.

I don’t remember having seen anything yet that would pass for a platform or manifesto from the Harris/Walz camp. I’m not claiming to have read everything that’s in circulation, but nonetheless from my armchair it all seems a bit vague so far. Things like being generally opposed to the overruling of Roe v Wade don’t count for me: they don’t say what Harris would actually do about that were she to become president.

I doubt that I’d place much credence on the notion that Walz’s politics would materially influence the direction of the Harris/Walz ticket. When is the VP, or the VP nominee, ever a driving force in policy? The better argument may be that Walz’s politics are not inconsistent with Harris’s preferred direction, but again that doesn’t tell one a lot about the specifics of what Harris wants to achieve.

39

Agree with pretty much everything.

I commend you for starting the conversation. And I think there is a conversation to be had now and when we get more specifics. I’ll try to contribute more then

40

Things like being generally opposed to the overruling of Roe v Wade …

I’m not even sure how to respond to that.