I read the post about number of strokes in the pool and I can’t believe how fast some people swim. I swim 1 lap in a 25 meter pool in 1:00 if I’m working pretty hard. Some of you do that in less than 30 seconds if you’re doing a 1:00/ 100 meter pace. I’ve been doing TI drills for about a year, I can only swim about 3 times a week;2 1/2 hr swims during the week and 1 or 2 1-hr swims on the weekend. I can’t afford a coach and there are no master’s programs in my area. Everything I read talks about form but I’ve been working on form for a long time and it doesn’t seem to help. My times for olympic distance races are around 35:00. It’s starting to become very frustrating because I see continuous improvement on the bike and run but nothing in the swim. Any suggestions would be helpful.
Hey Tom,
I was in your situation for about 4 years. I did form drills almost exclusively. I had mastered body position. Unfortunately, my stroke sucked. This winter, I’ve been taking private swim lessons through the local rec. department. Sure, I feel kind of stupid having a 17y/o girl telling me what I should/shouldn’t be doing. However, I’ve gone from swimming 15x100 on 2:15 last year to 15x100 on 1:35 this year with open turns (and I’m still not in very good shape yet). Have someone look at your stroke!! Anyone is better than no one. I didn’t realize how ugly my stroke was until it was pointed out to me!
-Jay
A buddy of mine has a theory…swim speed is sort of like your “package”. Whatever God gave you, he gave you…and there ain’t much you can do about it. This may not be true, but, he’s a funny guy that swims slow, too.
I started to do the exercises in the book “Going Long”. The specific one’s that have helped me the most are the half pull and the full pull. I do them without the cords cuz I don’t have any.
What it did for me is teach me to catch the water earlier and increase the length of the pull phase of each stroke. Also, since I’ve been doing them, my left shoulder doesn’t hurt anymore. I am moving my arms at the same speed as before (at least I think I am) but am getting more propulsion from each stroke.
By the way I am 5’4", take 36 to 38 strokes per 50, been swimming for 1 year and swim 100’s on 1:45 so I’m not terribly fast, just a solid MOPer. Last year I swam an olympic swim in 29 minutes and am a lot faster now, hoping for under 25 minutes this year. Can’t wait to get to open water again, I seem to swim faster in open water than in the pool.
I can scan the pages from the book and email them to you if you want.
I hope this helps
jaretj
Thanks Jaret. I was planning on buying “Going Long.” I’ll buy it sooner than later and try some of the drills. Some have told me that if you want to swim fast, just like biking and running, it has to hurt a little. I don’t think I work hard enough in the pool but I’ve always been under the impression that form is much more important than fitness in the water.
I’ve always been under the impression that form is much more important than fitness in the water.
It is. If you haven’t had any coaching or swum with a masters group, the next best thing is probably to get someone to videotape you. make sure they get video from several angles, and compare with your ‘model’ examples.
Also, it is important to work on swimming fast, because it does use different muscles than running or cycling. Also, it is a lot easier to maintain form when swimming easy than when you’re really hurting, so you need to get used to being able to hold your stroke together.
I don’t know the book. But I would try and incorporate some ‘feel of the water’ type drills into your workouts. Things like sculling, doing a length feet first, log roll. If you have gotten yourself to a good body position from the TI drills etc. then you need to learn how to manipulate the water to propel you in the direction you want. I think of it a bit like sailing. Any fool can eventually figure out how to make the sailboat go in the right general direction - it is the masters that learn how to use the wind that become great. In the pool, you can have poor body position but still move fairly quickly if you know how to manipulate the water right.
I think this is part of why waterpolo players have done so well in triathlon, in waterpolo you must be able to change directions quickly, move laterally and swim fast in tight situations - all of which requires a ‘feel of the water’
Also, what a lot of people don’t realize is that you can work hard AND work on your stroke. In fact, sessions of stroke work at high intensity is almost as important because that is simulating race conditions. As you tire in a hard set - focus on keeping your stroke together -finish the pull, keep the kick going, maintain body position.
I would look into getting a coach. Even just offering one of the older kids on your local swim team a few bucks to help you out once a week would probably benefit you a lot.
I feel your pain, I could’ve written your post. Here’s what I’m doing about it: racing bikes instead of triathlon!!
Leigh
Both fitness AND technique are important for swimming.
When you say, you can’t afford a coach, can you not find just a fairly fast high school, college, fitness, or masters swimmer who seems fairly articulate who could watch you and give you some direct swim technique instruction? For just a few sessions, I wouldn’t imagine that would be very expensive–cheaper than a lot of bike upgrades, that is for sure.
How big of a town do you live in? Less than 1000 people? Perhaps the nearest masters swim group is too far to swim with several times a week, every week, but perhaps you could meet up with the coaches once or twice and have them give you some technique instruction?
From what you write in your first post, I think that may help you a lot.
I like Yarf’s explanation about feel for the water
A lot of my improvements in the recent months have been from propulsion changes. I started with TI and it was great for a beginning swimmer but I have been moving away from that style a little bit. A big change that I made is now when I place my hand in the water I don’t wait for the other arm to reach my head and then take the stroke. I use a rhythm and the feel of the water. When my hand is in front of me, it is out there for about 1/4 of a second and I start the catch. It is if my arms never stop moving but I still seem to start my catch when my other hand is up to my head, I just don’t time it that way anymore.
Even though I breathe on my right side only, it has made my strokes very even (or symetrical) because it is a feel for the water. I also don’t glide as much anymore and have maintained the stroke count.
Hopefully Jill or some other swimming god can explain better.
jaretj
I think there is some truth to that theory. It seems that no matter how much or little I train in the swim, my times are always about the same and get me out of the water in good shape. Conversely, I have a buddy who is slow no matter what he does. He’s taken classes, trained more, worked on technique, etc. Still slow. I’ve watched him swim and his technique looks fine so it’s a bit of a mystery.
Depending on your body type you may show a slower rate of improvement in your swimming relative to that of your bike and run. If you are a Peter Reid type physically you may have naturally lower body fat and a tendency to have bouyancy problems. But as PR and others have shown, it doesn’t mean you are doomed to a lifetime of poor swimming.
Drills and TI stuff is fine, but in order to swim faster you have to…swim faster. Yes, as Gordo has shown you can gain speed with isolated improvements in aerobic efficiency alone, but with your current available time for swim training, swimming slow and steady will serve to keep you slow and steady.
There is also a school of thought that suggests drills done at slow pace are not helpful except for swimmers with markedly flawed strokes. The theory here is that the fundamental problem with being unable to hold “X” pace when racing or timetrialing relates to stroke breakdown or deterioration over time. So one might surmise doing drills at or close to race pace is more appropriate.
Before starting with interval training you might consider trying some pull sets. This will enhance your upper body development as it isolates your arms and chest. It also simulates wetsuit swimming as your hips are elevated and your kick lessens.
Do not waste time kicking with a kickboard. In a triathlon you wil almost always be in a wetsuit and the kick becomes less important. A kickboard-based kicking set places you in an unnatural position and is useless. If you like kick sets, practice kicking on side or with arms extended in front. I’m sure Terry Laughlin has taught you this.
A time-limited athlete must incorporate specificity once a solid aerobic foundation is in place. If you are capable of swimming a mile continously without much effort you have an aerobic foundation already and you must turn to swimming at increased intensity.
That being said, remember that triathlon is one sport, not three, and it is about your overall time rather than splits. Plenty of lousy swimmers wind up on the podium, but not too many lousy runners or cyclists.
But I would try and incorporate some ‘feel of the water’ type drills into your workouts. Things like sculling, doing a length feet first, log roll. If you have gotten yourself to a good body position from the TI drills etc. then you need to learn how to manipulate the water to propel you in the direction you want. I think of it a bit like sailing. Any fool can eventually figure out how to make the sailboat go in the right general direction - it is the masters that learn how to use the wind that become great. In the pool, you can have poor body position but still move fairly quickly if you know how to manipulate the water right.
Ok, you answered one of my questions from the thread I just started. Could you describe some of those ‘feel’ drills?
I read the TI book and did some of the drills which help a little but what made a huge difference was having a someone who is a good swimmer watch me for 5 minutes and tell me what I was doing wrong. If you can’t afford a coach, try an adult 1-on-1 swim lesson at the local pool. 3x a week is only enough to maintain what you’ve got no enough to improve. I didn’t see real improvement until I started swimming 4-5 days a week. I was recovering from an ankle injury so all i could do was swim for 6 months.
I replied to your other thread. If you want more details send me an e-mail at aseanor@firstassociates.com
Good Luck
Hallo…
You are swimming 2-3 hours weekly, I’m not the best swimmer, just right under 1.00 on 100 meter freestyle, 17.32 on 1500 meter, I’m also swimming 12 hours weekly. Only 16 years old, but not the best swimmer at all…
Í have two advices:
I don’t what it’s called in american, but you are laying with your hands down the sides, waving with you hands and then catch the water.
Use your legs all the time. Train it over and over again. A swimmer like russian Popov 46 seconds or something like that on 100 meter freestyle. He can go under the minute on a 100 meter only using his legs!!
Hope you could use the advices!
Schmidt-DK
www.larsschmidt.dk
I think the word you are looking for is sculling.
Thanks… I’ll agree with you… Let’s make a new ironman distance, 10-180-42…
Schmidt-DK
**Some of you do that in less than 30 seconds if you’re doing a 1:00/ 100 meter pace. **
Those people are lying. No one swims 100y in less than a minute. People also lie about running 6min/mile pace following the swim and bike. Averaging 22mph or more in a race on the bike is also a lie. I don’t why people need to discourage us slow folks by making up blatant lies about their speeds.
I can swim a mile in ~44 minutes (high zone 2, low zone 3). Outside of getting better endurance, I have no idea how to get faster. Hopefully, at this forum and through some research I’ll figure it out. At this point, I think I can get that number down to under 37:00 by simply continueing to become better conditions and more efficient.
Note: My comments about others lying are of course sarcastic. I know those numbers are legit, they just seem so incredibly out of reach for us newbies. It was for a laugh.
I’m slow too. I’ve found that if you swim in a pool with a lifeguard, get to know him/her/them. Ask them to take a glance at your stroke/technique every once in a while. They’re usually more than happy to offer a bit of advice once in a while. Free coaching.
Also, I’ve sometimes swum in lanes near a masters program or near a kids swim team. You can pick up a lot just eavesdropping. Again, free coaching.