I read the post about number of strokes in the pool and I can’t believe how fast some people swim. I swim 1 lap in a 25 meter pool in 1:00 if I’m working pretty hard. Some of you do that in less than 30 seconds if you’re doing a 1:00/ 100 meter pace. I’ve been doing TI drills for about a year, I can only swim about 3 times a week;2 1/2 hr swims during the week and 1 or 2 1-hr swims on the weekend. I can’t afford a coach and there are no master’s programs in my area. Everything I read talks about form but I’ve been working on form for a long time and it doesn’t seem to help. My times for olympic distance races are around 35:00. It’s starting to become very frustrating because I see continuous improvement on the bike and run but nothing in the swim. Any suggestions would be helpful.
TT,
Although those swim times are attainable for me. Many peoples bike and run times still feel the same way for me.
Tom,
I am in the same boat as you; I was swimming 100’s in around 1:00. However, I’ve recently started working with a coach and he got me to breath bilaterally to even out my stoke. In doing this, I am taking fewer breaths each length and my 100 time is now around 0:55. It was hard to get used to taking fewer breaths each length and breathing on the off side, but after several weeks I can breath equally well on both sides. I also do sets where I breath every 3rd, 5th or 7th stroke to get used to swimming with less air. Another point is to swim ‘quietly’ by having a smooth hand entry; just watch the bubbles underwater and make sure you are not making alot of turbulence with your hands. I do a ‘Tarzan’ drill where you swim a length watching your hhand entry above and below the water.
Tom I have the same problem as you . I swim slow. I have found that I compete much better in the sprint tri’s and the 1/2 ironman distance than I do in the olympic distance. They just discussed this on the trinewbies web site. Many others felt these distances were better for them.
Just stick in there and keep drilling. It might help to drill one day, do sets one day (10X 100) and a long swim one day (straight mile) I’m not one to give advice on swimming but this has helped me.
Conversely, I have a buddy who is slow no matter what he does. He’s taken classes, trained more, worked on technique, etc. Still slow. I’ve watched him swim and his technique looks fine so it’s a bit of a mystery.<<
This is me. I’ve swam a lot, I’ve swam not at all. I still swim within a minute of the same slow IM time. I’ve done some master’s swimming, I’ve had private lessons to work on my stroke (and I have a decent stroke, per more than a couple of coaches). The one thing we’ve added this spring is that I’m now doing an hour swim most every Sunday in a 50-meter pool and my pool times seem to be getting a little faster. We’ll see if it translates to open water in April.
Sometimes I would almost swear that I get slower as I get older. I remember my swim times as being faster in my 20s and 30s. I have been working more on my swim for about the last 8 years. I had some improvement for a while but got a bulged disk two years ago. I seem to have lost a lot of flexibliity in my hips and low back since then and some days it seems like I’m dragging an anchor. When I find that guy who tied it to my ass he’s going to get a beating.
Tom, I did not read the rest of the thread so excuse me if there’s some repetitive info here. You need to swim more than 2hrs per week if you want to make significant progress in swimming. Form is very important but without basic aerobic power in the water you might just swim technically correct, slowly. In order to develop aerobic power aka muscular endurance, increase your frequency and volume. Try to swim at least 3 x 1hr sessions per week, and more if you can make the time.
A general breakdown of the workout could be 10min wm up, 15min stroke drills, 5min kick drills, 25min main set, 5min warm down. Beyond using TI drills and whatever else you come across on the net, focus on strength (power) per stroke for a portion of your main set. Pull hard through the water with good technique. The kick drills helps develop hip/core strength and aid in stroke balance.
Those are the basics.
I have a friend who truly only swims an hour a week. Last year, he did a :44 in the 100y free (on only 1 hour per week!). He is very strong and has a perfect stroke. Some people have it and others don’t. Also, at the the pool I train at, I can instantly tell whether someone swam competitively or not. It’s binary. Even some of the good triathletes who can go under 1:00 or so in an IM look a little bit “off” if they didn’t swim in college.
“You need to swim more than 2hrs per week if you want to make significant progress in swimming.”
I was waiting for someone to say this. That’s my biggest concern. I can swim forever effortlessly, but I don’t think I swim enough to get a feel for the water and also to improve my form and aerobic conditioning in the water. I don’t know how much aerobic carry over there is from biking and running but I don’t think it’s a lot. I was in the pool this morning and I was doing a lot of the things people commented on and suggested. I timed myself for about 5 laps and I averaged 1:10 per lap. Here I thought I’d be the next Ian Thorpe in a day.
The funny thing is, compared to most people who swim where I do, I look like a friggin fish.
I’m relating to a lot in this thread. I have little doubt that I could swim for 2 hours at the same pace. Seems my first 250y is 6:30, and my 9th 250y is 6:30. Endurance is not the problem. Perhaps only swimming for 3 months or so is.
I want to be faster. I need to be faster.
Rather than ask folks to outline a training plan, or list me 10 things I should do to swim faster, all I would ask for is links to articles/information that has helped you swim faster. Ideas, programs, swim sets, etc … that I can try and hopefully use to swim faster.
From what I am reading, perhaps the answer of intervals with short rest or “swim faster by practicing to swim faster” is just so garlingly obvious and simple that it gets rejected as a possible solution.
Thanks in advance for any links. I did a few searches on google for “swimming faster”, but didn’t realy find anything useful. mostly ads for books, etc.
Edit: FWIW, I am a “glider” as was described in this thread earlier. I have that pretty, little, TI, no-splash, smooth stroke. But, it is slow and consistent.
I believe it but you have to consider how many hours he has already logged as a kid/young adult. For those of us who swam competitively, those 10, 15, 20+ hours per week can carry forward a long time. Athletes coming in from different sports need to play catch-up (ha ha, that’s a swimming pun) with the youth swimmers.
I like this site for videos. But I don’t read the information. They are way to intense for me.
Check these out on the US Masters Swimming site:
I would like to comment on a few things that have been said here. I have been swimming competitively for about 30 years (I’m now 35) and I have been coaching Masters for about 2. I haven’t been to TI, and I haven’t read the book although I probably should. So having that out of the way.
Triple commented on gliding and I think it was TomH that said that he has stopped gliding. IMHO most people should use somewhat of a catch-up stroke. I’m assuming this is what Triple is saying. The analogy that I like to use for novice swimmers is that swimming is more like skating, in that you apply power and then glide before the next application of power, rather than being like cycling where you are simply constantly moving. If you watch a good swimmer with a 2 beat kick, this is typically the way they swim. The benefit of this is that you get a fraction of a second rest each time you glide.
The other thing that I would like to comment on is hand entry. Hand entry does not have to be precise. If you watch good swimmers, most of them simply plop their hand in the water and then use the extention and glide to scub off the air. I see a lot of novice swimmers who seem either very tentative with their hand entry or they are trying to be very precise and scrub off the air bubbles during the entry. Also as relates to hand entry, your arm should be about 3/4 extended or if you use a straight arm recovery fully extended when your hand enters the water.
Finally, as relates to working on drills. If you are a novice swimmer, every now and then you need to do them with someone (who knows the drills, what they should look like and what they are supposed to correct or improve)that can give you feedback. Because the drills will not be effective (and could even do more damage) if you are doing them incorrectly and most novice swimmers (even some not so novice swimmers) have not developed enough kinethetic sense to tell what they are doing with their body in the water.
I hope this helps and feel free to ask more questions.
Ed
My recommendation, video tape, masters coach, & lots of pulling.
I have sped up a LOT this year, (from a cold start) with those methods. Technique requires some base strength we (I’m about as fast as you) need more of. I think some coaches may be starting in the wrong place, expecting speed to follow form. Yes, but power enables form, I say. Pull baby, pull (the wetsuit will float you anyway!)
I was following this thread a while back but I got distracted by work. Anyway, I’m pretty close to you, I’m a slow cow in the water. Can I ask how you feel in the water? Its subjective, I know but to tell you the truth, this is my 3rd year swimming (ever) and I only started improving significantly when one day my coach made us do a 1000m warmup and it felt really comfortable. It felt like I could go on forever. Since then I’ll admit, we have an amazing coach this year and I’ve improved almost 20 seconds off my 50m. A couple of quickies. When we’d do drills, she’d always make me focus on one particular drill at a time (for weeks). Also, we’ve been doing at least one 1500TT or even 2000mTT once a month since November. I don’t look too forward to it but it feels easier and easier everytime and I can’t wait until race season. My time has gone down from 33min to 30min. I hope to break 30 this weekend.
also, i have PF right now so I can’t run. I’ve been spending at least 4 times/week in the pool for over 2 months. I’ve been doing a lot of weights, working on my (non-existant) core, and working on my upper body again. (Been a while) Also, started rock climbing, and its a killer workout for my forearms (slowly learning the technique)
I guess my point is this, sometimes, an increase in swim mileage is needed (heck the school swim team practices twice a day, 5 days a week). a new coach, time off, cross training, - basically, you need to work outside of the pool to improve in it. Also, my coach usually picks us out for the pace workouts and has us race each other. ok I’m gonna be late for my practice. good luck!
Tom,
Do you feel like you have some decent “base” fitness after that year of drilling you’re doing? One thing we used to do early in the season when I swam competitively was swim repeat 50’s, 100’s or higher with either a set rest period in between or leaving on a set interval. The lenght of the swim depended on the length of the event we specialized in. You can even play games by trying to do each repeat a little faster than the last, or ladder up and down by going gradually faster each one and then slowing back down in later repeats. Runners do speed work on the track if they want to be faster and I really think this translates to the pool, too. I remember seeing people with very careful, exact form, “reaching over the barrel” like we were instructed for hand entry. Very nice 6 beat kick and all the rest of it. But they were left in the foam because they weren’t relaxed and just swimming. I hope this doesn’t sound like it should be easy, because it isn’t. Much of it is gaining a feel for the water and being subtly aware of how each of your movements is contributing to you making forward motion. Going faster is a lot of very hard work. Try mixing in some interval work once a week. My two cents worth.
Neil
I thought that after I swam for a year and broke 2:00 for a 100 YARDS, I was now a swimmer. Phhhhttt.
Through constant concentration on technique, private lessons with a great swim coach, video feedback, regular squads, improved fitness etc, I now race sub 60 minutes for IM distance (about 1:30 per 100 metres). For Olympic distance, my PB is 20:30. I get out of the water with much younger better looking people who are regularly surprised to see such an old fat geezer getting to T1 so quickly.
I’m 43 years old, 5’7" short, almost 190lb and blonde. I think 1:30/100 metres pace for an hour is pretty darned good but I’m hoping for better. I normally do 13 strokes per 25 metres when training but race at 14-15 per 25 metres. Now if I could just drag those 190lbs up hills on a bike or run 42.2km a bit faster I’d be approaching happiness!
In summary, get coaching, practice what you’re told and get swim fit. That way you’ll get faster in no time
TriDork
sorry about my scatterbrained last post but the lat guy reminded me the benefits of someone taping you. You’ve already mentioned you can’t afford a coach, (and yet everyone is saying get one) so I say borrow a friend and vid cam, and just ask them to tape you swimming. Trust me, you’ll see things that you thought you were doing correctly but aren’t immediately. Since you’re working on form, I assume you know what you should look like. good luck.
and also, food for thought. we triathletes work what, 95% on freestyle? Think about it, you want to be a better swimmer. Then train like one. IM.
“Can I ask how you feel in the water? Its subjective,”
I don’t feel slippery like I flow through the water but I feel like I have good form. I’m going to try to get someone with some experience to check it out. Also, when I start to fatigue I can feel my form weaken and I definitly slow down. I really don’t understand the pull. I don’t ever feel like I catch water and pull it back. I always simply feel like I put my arm in the water and it pushes through the water until it exists. I think I’m farely horizintal in the water and I think the drills have solved that pronlem. From reading through all the great posts I have some things I want to try; get a friend to videotape (prefferably a swimmer), do some of the cord exercises, do some harder intervals, and try to get in the pool more.
On the positive side, when I first got into a pool (4-5 yrs ago) I couldn’t swim 1 lap without being exhausted. Tri-ing has just done wonders from where I started.
Tom:
Do you focus on the same energy systems every workout, or do you vary from session to session?