Where is slowtwitch going?

I have always liked the simplicity and contend of slowtwitchs front page i but lately I find slowtwitch is changing, and not only visually. Nothing wrong with the visual change as iam sure many people will like it as it follows a pattern that everybody seems to do those days, it just dosnt seem to agree with me ( more fluff less content on the lead page) .

Anyway more importantly the content change, this weekend we have arguably the 2nd most important race in long distance tri and when I look at the front page I see nothing but swim run articles.

In a way i think its great that slowtwich seems to have decided to “promote” scandinavian races such as Otellio, Noreseman and lofoten “extreme” triathlon and swim run races as they represent and more old school flair of racing,

But I think slowtwich hould try to balance it a bit better, and the 70.3 worlds deserve more coverage.

Just my 2 cents.

Timothy Carlson almost always has an in depth analysis of the contenders for worlds and often some photo gallery stuff from onsite. Maybe that is coming today before the race. I am personally not interesting in doing swim-run (I can’t trail run due to a 2011 crash and pull buoy legal swims just seem weird, although I understand this is to offset running shoes), but I can see the athleticsm involved in these and how they work with the natural terrain vs the cookie cutter distances.

I’d wait till later today to see if there is any 70.3 WC’s analysis. Too bad they could not get Gwen and Alistair Brownlee to this. 70.3 world’s in my favourite race…you get a pretty stacked pro field and it’s a race that you have more chances to qualify for (more 70.3’s to try at, and you can recover and try another round if you fail on your first or second). Onsite you get the full international flair without the seriousness of the KQ age groupers with their game face on all week like they will win their division (they won’t because every local hero champion in Kona turns into pack fill at that race).

You mean a top X ag’er who qualified at Y 70.3 gets spanked at the world’s?

Isn’t that the same at kona where someone qualifies top 3-4 at an IM then gets spanked by some “amateur” Belgium;)

You mean a top X ag’er who qualified at Y 70.3 gets spanked at the world’s?

Isn’t that the same at kona where someone qualifies top 3-4 at an IM then gets spanked by some “amateur” Belgium;)

I was mainly referring to the top local hero age grouper getting spanked in Kona. At 70.3 WC’s you have a few of those guys truly gunning for the podium, but in reality most of the field is made up of guys and girls who are just a notch away from making it to Kona (for example, for Kona I have qualified on 3 out of 31 IM’s. For 70.3 Worlds, I qualified every year and at 90% of the races that I tried…I’m also a better half and olympic tri athlete). The average age grouper at 70.3 WC perhaps shares more of a similar mindset to myself…we’re not good enough in general to qualify for Kona and there is more to the event than racing and take in all the other aspects and social elements. There is just a bit less of the hyper competitive aspect, which makes the social and cultural experience more appealing (to me). In Kona most of the guys and girls there win every local event they are in and don’t realize that they will be packfill and there is no difference between 30th place and 50th place and 70th place.

When Dev wrote this: “we’re not good enough in general to qualify for Kona and there is more to the event than racing and take in all the other aspects and social elements.”

I think he really described about 90% of “us”

Us being not only Age Groupers but contributors/lurkers on Slowtwitch as well.

The Kona dream is just that… a dream, for some more important than other, especially for a few weeks in the fall =-).

For the most part, for most of us, it.will.never.happen.

And “we” are ok with that and still enter races, buy power meters, and go to Master’s swimming.

And as far as the social aspect goes, despite the fact I am involved in a local triathlon club, the more meaningful triathlon-related discussions I have and value are here… on Slowtwitch. Simply put, folks that read and post on Slowtwitch are closer to what I would call peers, both in terms of attitude as well as triathlon knowledge.

Thanks for encapsulating that so well, Dev!

your post deserves an answer.

i competed in the first ironman in kona, in 1981. that was 35 years ago. i formally entered the industry 30 years ago this autumn. i entered my first 3-sport event in 1978 and my first swim/bike/run in 1980. so i think it’s fair to say i’ve seen substantially the entire arc of the sport, as regards participation, media and industry.

not widely appreciated is that we (triathlon in north america) hit a high point in 1988. in 1994 our sport had fallen to half of what it was in 1988. by 1999 we were about back to where we were in 1988. between 1998 and 2012 we saw 14 years of almost uninterrupted growth, and that 2012 total in the united states was several times the size of the market of users at the point of the previous high, in 1988.

since 2012 we’ve seen a drop-off in the united states and in canada, steadily, each year. the big drop-off is in youth and in 1-day memberships, which means the deeply committed triathletes remain, but those dating the sport, and those who might come in as youngsters, we’re suffering.

we’re not doing a good job of attracting newcomers.

why? in my view, because our sport is now dominated by professionals and corporations and moneyed interests. for upwards of the last decade the operative interest in everything having to do with triathlon - race production, manufacturing, media, governance - has been money, bonuses, careers, and return on invested dollar.

that first swim, bike run race in did, in 1980, the swim took place at the end. i was in 3rd. i came out of the water and got outsprinted in the beach, and i ended up 4th. the guy who outsprinted me, that corksucker, is “monty” on this forum. if you wander over to the your perfect race thread, you’ll see that monty and i are almost exasperatingly pleading that you all think outside the box when coming up with your perfect race. the most recent additions to that thread are brilliant. exactly what i hoped for. this kind of thinking is what our sport needs. first you think it. then you do it. then you reproduce it for others.

but if you keep doing what you’re doing, you’ll keep getting what you’re getting. if our sport simply follows the money, and if we follow those who follow the money, we have no one to blame but ourselves if our sport doesn’t begin to grow again, as it began to grow again in the late 1990s.

accordingly, i am not going to omit coverage of the traditional races. but when you say, “slowtwich should try to balance it a bit better,” in my view that’s exactly what we are doing. for every race dominated by traditional, mainstream interests we’re going to write about a race that some guy thought up, drew up on a napkin in a coffee shop with his buddy, and put on for no reason other than it sounded like a really cool race.

i’ve never done, seen in person, or gotten a cent from a swim/run race. but i dig the videos. the reason norseman and otillo are important is not that they line my pockets. it’s because these races line no one’s pockets! including the organizers’ pockets. this is the ethic and the operating principle that built our sport.

the very first thing i did when i came back from the first ironman in kona in february of 1981 is plan and produce a triathlon in my hometown, which happened in august of 1981. the very last thing i had on my mind was a profit. in fact, it was a privilege to lose money on those early races, and losing money was the cost i gladly bore for the thrill of reproducing for my fellows a multisport experience.

as to what we’ll cover here, i’m going to honor those who honor my idea of what has historically pushed this sport forward. that means the little race, the no-money race, the new product, the 1-man manufacturing company, the idea so good i wish i’d thought of it. these are going to get just as much interest from me as a new bike from a $1 billion company or a big race produced by ironman or IMG.

as regards the current races this weekend, yes of course we will cover 70.3 worlds. but rightly or wrongly - and maybe it was a poor choice on my part - when i was presented with the choice of whether to have timothy carlson spend his time on a forecast of this race or a woman with gran mal seizure epilepsy holding off liz lyles for the win at penticton, that just wasn’t even a close call. could we do both stories, you might ask. perhaps. but i’d already worked timothy to the bone on covering the olympics, alongside the other stories he covered, and my pick was jen annett.

now, you might call some of our stories fluff. they’re all interesting to me. i found herbert’s before/after photo essay a brave try. was it a success? that story has 4,400 facebook likes and rising. so, one man’s fluff is another man’s compelling read.

i promise you - i promise you - i’ll make editorial mistakes in judgment. and i want you to point them out. but the above is my answer to your question of where slowtwitch is going, and what you can expect going forward.

Read Dan’s post over carefully.

Ironman (the business/brand) and their races and events are great - some of the absolute best in the sport. It’s been a hugely successful business and an important promoter generally of the sport of triathlon.

However, it’s NOT the whole story of the sport of triathlon and multisport. Much of the triathlon media have been hyper-obsessed with Ironman over the past 15+ years. Slowtwitch can be included in this group, but there has always been more diversity promoted and covered here. Personally, I applaud that, and see that it’s the right thing to do.

Here’s the thing, while Ironman get’s all the hype, and focus, the actual athletes that sign-up and race it are starting to be a a narrower and narrower group - generally it’s wealthier, middle-aged men. Few younger people and low numbers of women.

I see some subtle shifts and changes going on behind the scenes. I hosted and emceed an open information seminar for an event client of mine earlier this year. It was promoted and billed as an information session for first time triathletes, and those interested in the sport. About 120 showed up - a great turn out. Over 75% had never done a triathlon of any kind, but were hoping to do one this year. In over 90 minutes of information shared and Q & A with an expert panel, the word Ironman, was never mentioned ounce!

Hey Dan, that was a good response. I think inherently you are a startup/innovator guy. It is in your DNA. You’re not a big corporation guy. Most of things you have done in your life is around innovation. By the way, in another life outside of triathlon, that’s what I have been doing most of my life but given the scope of the industry, having to do it from inside a NASDAQ traded company. So I get your angle.

I put on races in 1990 for the privilege of giving my peers access to racing while losing money. All organized over my kitchen table with some buddies. Graham Fraser gave me some advice though. Whatever you do, if you need to lose money for a short time as an investment to build, then fine, but have a line of sight to being profitable. I didn’t have that, so I moved on.

At some point any product/industry/new category matures from startup, to enterprise, to many competitors to IPO to mainstream.

Thanks to people like you triathlon is now mainstream, so inherently there will be participants and readers in our sport that care about the mainstream stuff and a niche group who will care about the niche events.

Look at my answers on your thread about the perfect race. To some degree, in the early days we needed to create the perfect format. After a lot of trial and error, formats emerge that many people like. Some of it is as a result of corporate brainwashing, but through trial and error on many some of these formats rock. I replied to you saying that pretty well my perfect race is Wildflower. I don’t need to concoct a perfect race, Terry Davis did it for me. It’s not that I am not original. I have made up all kinds of hard core training events with insane elevation, trail runs, XC skiing etc. But aside from some of us with loose screws most mainstream athletes don’t care about that.

I truly think that most mainstream athletes don’t care about new/niche format events. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that either.

As someone who has lived through the development of the sport as a competitor, I see both sides. The innovator’s side and the corporate side. I think you want to bring a balance to the innovator’s side. That’s fine, but most of your readers are about mainstream.

Wow - thanks for thinking big picture!

What are these comments you and Dev have made about no interest in swim/run races?

I have raced in Aquathlon races for a few years. A few times at worlds. They are supposed to be run/swim/run events, but when a wetsuit is needed
for the swim, they become swim/run, which is most of the time.

This year I gave a focus to racing not just triathlons that I have done for years, but duathlons, and Aquathlons. It actually has been real fun doing different format events.
And I have to tell you, I have really had a great time racing in the Aquathlon, swim/run event. I do not have to worry about taking a bike and all the issues involved with them!
It also makes the race being over with sooner, which is great for family life.

So, you, monty, etc. should consider coming to the Aquathlon Nationals in Santa Cruz on October 8th!! Even though I am scared to death swimming in the ocean, it
really is a lot of fun just taking off on the run after a swim and putting the pedal to the medal, running next to the ocean, light house, etc. So, what do you think, want to
come up this way and kick my butt?

There’s a big difference between an aquathlon and a swimrun event. Former is one swim leg and 2 run legs. Latter is lots and lots of legs of both. E.g. Swimming between and running across 20+ islands in the Swedish archipelago. Carrying everything you need with you on the way.

There’s a big difference between an aquathlon and a swimrun event. Former is one swim leg and 2 run legs. Latter is lots and lots of legs of both. E.g. Swimming between and running across 20+ islands in the Swedish archipelago. Carrying everything you need with you on the way.

Got to start somewhere.

Some of us like shorter stuff. Some folks like extreme stuff.

I have always liked the simplicity and contend of slowtwitchs front page i but lately I find slowtwitch is changing, and not only visually. Nothing wrong with the visual change as iam sure many people will like it as it follows a pattern that everybody seems to do those days, it just dosnt seem to agree with me ( more fluff less content on the lead page) .

Anyway more importantly the content change, this weekend we have arguably the 2nd most important race in long distance tri and when I look at the front page I see nothing but swim run articles.

In a way i think its great that slowtwich seems to have decided to “promote” scandinavian races such as Otellio, Noreseman and lofoten “extreme” triathlon and swim run races as they represent and more old school flair of racing,

But I think slowtwich hould try to balance it a bit better, and the 70.3 worlds deserve more coverage.

Just my 2 cents.

Slowtwitch has a front page? (slightly pink font)…

I just wanted to ask or clarify with you. Are you saying youth is dropping in numbers because that’s not what I’m seeing.

I know USAT I think made new rules about youth membership prices, but youth participation and races is improving a lot.

ST may want to look into some of the junior programs and get more interest in that. Z3, Southeast, PlayTri, Endorphine Fitness, Multisport Madness, all teams/coaches who are investing in the future of the sport. Of course “youth/junior” racing probaly turns off most of ST audience, so each their own.

“Are you saying youth is dropping in numbers because that’s not what I’m seeing.”

i think when you see USAT’s latest demographic report, when it eventually comes out (for 2015) that will make things more clear.

but this was for 2015, we are 8 months into 2016 and perhaps the demo report for 2016 will show something quite different. or maybe some of the programs to which you refer fall outside the purview of USAT.

i’m not on the ground with this cohort, like you are, so i defer to your experience. i’m relying just on the hard stats generated by those in a good position to know.

I think USAT changed their youth prices or had some issues w membership prices over last few years so may have had some parents not pay the full price and just do the 1 day fee. Youth 1 day fee is no longer allowed but it’s only $10 per year so kinda null. Youth triathletes are far more “1 a year” than any other demographic because it’s an easy thing to do and can be a “summer activity”. I have done 3 “summer camp” programs and out of the 60 youth I’ve coached in those programs (athletes who weren’t part of my daily training team) only 5 did another race in the same year.

But the number of races and youth participants is exploding. Atleast here in NC. It’s crazy and IronKids has gone away in many locations (I don’t even know if that org is still around). I think in last 18 months I’ve counted 8 new youth specific races with races growing in numbers here in NC.

What I am seeing is that “specialization” is slowly starting to occur at about 14-15 for the males to be competitive at national level. Junior females are actually overall less developed then youth females. In 3-5 years females will have caught up with junior boys in terms of volume/depth. Which is why we are still having issues with junior girls and NCAA scholarships. They are giving them away to anyone right now, and still our best females are going single sport mostly.

“Are you saying youth is dropping in numbers because that’s not what I’m seeing.”

i think when you see USAT’s latest demographic report, when it eventually comes out (for 2015) that will make things more clear.

but this was for 2015, we are 8 months into 2016 and perhaps the demo report for 2016 will show something quite different. or maybe some of the programs to which you refer fall outside the purview of USAT.

i’m not on the ground with this cohort, like you are, so i defer to your experience. i’m relying just on the hard stats generated by those in a good position to know.

Dan, Brooks, what type of content do the 18-28 athletes care about and want to read?

Is the 18-28 even a demographic on ST? I’d say that’s low priority.

Eta: or I should say to cater to that demographic would be to go against mainstream of rest of ST crowd. The 2 demographics just view things very differently, and so I think you’d have to side w the majority. Which is the late 30’s, 40’s-50s long course athlete.

ST is the 30-55 male IM/LC is the main ingredient to their training demographic. 18-28 males don’t necessarily see eye to eye w the overall scheme of ST in my opinion. That age demographic I think lives more for the hey that looks cool, let’s go do that event (on no training), and BS over beers about it.

I saw a funny video about millennials where they made fun of them and then goes “in 10 years they’ll be president” and the guy had the “oh shit” look.

Thanks for mentioning Endorphin Fitness, my daughter races for them. There is a growing number of Elite tri teams with very dedicated coaches that are providing access to top level racing for these kids.
If anyone was in Cincinnati in July and watched the Youth and Junior Elite races you would see that triathlon is alive and well in the 13-19 year old age range. Its all draft legal racing.
At least for the girls they now have an avenue to continue their triathlon careers into college. As you stated, for the most part the girls that are currently competing in college did not come up through the USAT Youth and Junior Elite ranks and it will take a few more years before these girls enter college as triathletes and not swimmers or runners. I am hoping that the future of the NCAA triathlon and Olympic athletes that the USAT series will serve to feed the colleges and there will be strong college squads that eventually act as a springboard for the Olympics and ITU. Certainly the current group of USA women have shown that you can start after college but the shear number of talented kids at the Youth and Junior Elite races prove that the interest is there.

Is the 18-28 even a demographic on ST? I’d say that’s low priority.

Eta: or I should say to cater to that demographic would be to go against mainstream of rest of ST crowd. The 2 demographics just view things very differently, and so I think you’d have to side w the majority. Which is the late 30’s, 40’s-50s long course athlete.

ST is the 30-55 male IM/LC is the main ingredient to their training demographic. 18-28 males don’t necessarily see eye to eye w the overall scheme of ST in my opinion. That age demographic I think lives more for the hey that looks cool, let’s go do that event (on no training), and BS over beers about it.

I saw a funny video about millennials where they made fun of them and then goes “in 10 years they’ll be president” and the guy had the “oh shit” look.

Brooks, 18-28 is the future of our sport. When I was 25 at IMC1991 25-29 was the biggest age group in the field. Long course racing happened because of my peer group…it’s been like that for 30 years but we need to cater to what will get and keep young people in the sport. If it swiim-run then great. If it’s ITU then great. If Xterra then fine. I don’t think it is Ironman. They may have an interest in 70.3 world’s, but likely not.