Where are all the 2A absolutists?

Originalists think of the Constitution and Bill of Rights as a contract that was created between the people and the government.

If you were to enter into a contract today, would you want it interpreted 100 years from now differently than you intended at the time it was signed?

The 2nd Amendment is telling the government that the people can use any arm that they deem fit to protect themselves against crime or tyrannical governments. The existing government can be killed, removed, and replaced if they don’t do what the people want.

I love contract law. Most litigation involving contracts arises because of changed conditions, unanticipated expenses or delays, failures to perform all the requirements under the contract, etc. Any one of these things can be used to argue that the original contract should not be in effect.

Consider when a supplier breaches an agreement to send you certain bikes. Are you still required to pay for the bikes? What if the government breaches its duty to promote life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in that gun violence is the leading cause of death for children and teens? What if new deadly technology is an unanticipated changed condition? Are we required to fulfill the contract term that you believe says there can be no restrictions on guns?

There is no contract or contract term that is like the unerring word of God. You might not like the proposed change to the contract, but you are not the only person who has entered into this contract with the government. When a majority of the people demand a change to the contract, the contract will be modified.

Whichever group has the most “firepower” gets to create the new contract.

Do you believe in the rule of law or the rule by firepower?

asked and answered, looks like

https://youtu.be/mRyU7wTT-BY?si=ggnTH4k0x1EDuZQS
.

Originalists think of the Constitution and Bill of Rights as a contract that was created between the people and the government.

If you were to enter into a contract today, would you want it interpreted 100 years from now differently than you intended at the time it was signed?

The 2nd Amendment is telling the government that the people can use any arm that they deem fit to protect themselves against crime or tyrannical governments. The existing government can be killed, removed, and replaced if they don’t do what the people want.

I love contract law. Most litigation involving contracts arises because of changed conditions, unanticipated expenses or delays, failures to perform all the requirements under the contract, etc. Any one of these things can be used to argue that the original contract should not be in effect.

Consider when a supplier breaches an agreement to send you certain bikes. Are you still required to pay for the bikes? What if the government breaches its duty to promote life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in that gun violence is the leading cause of death for children and teens? What if new deadly technology is an unanticipated changed condition? Are we required to fulfill the contract term that you believe says there can be no restrictions on guns?

There is no contract or contract term that is like the unerring word of God. You might not like the proposed change to the contract, but you are not the only person who has entered into this contract with the government. When a majority of the people demand a change to the contract, the contract will be modified.

Whichever group has the most “firepower” gets to create the new contract.

Do you believe in the rule of law or the rule by firepower?

The rule of law is the basis for your contract arguments. If you reject the rule law, you reject the notion of an enforceable contract. You’re rejecting the Constitution itself.

This world has always been controlled by those with the most “firepower”.

The biggest, baddest caveman would knock some of the other dudes out and take whatever he wanted. If someone challenged him, they would have to knock him out or kill him to be in charge and make the rules.

Remember the Declaration of Independence:

"The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America, When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security".

Before you rush to throw off the Government to secure a right added as an afterthought, you may want to slow the fuck down and consider the main point of the paragraph, bolded above at the opening of the paragraph.

The goal: life, liberty, pursuit of happiness.
The means: consent of the people.

When the majority of Americans want common sense gun laws to secure their life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, the minority who want unfettered gun rights must concede to the will/power of the majority.

You can’t seriously think you are authorized to use force by the words at the tail end of the paragraph without working through the first part of the paragraph.

Originalists think of the Constitution and Bill of Rights as a contract that was created between the people and the government.

If you were to enter into a contract today, would you want it interpreted 100 years from now differently than you intended at the time it was signed?

The 2nd Amendment is telling the government that the people can use any arm that they deem fit to protect themselves against crime or tyrannical governments. The existing government can be killed, removed, and replaced if they don’t do what the people want.

I love contract law. Most litigation involving contracts arises because of changed conditions, unanticipated expenses or delays, failures to perform all the requirements under the contract, etc. Any one of these things can be used to argue that the original contract should not be in effect.

Consider when a supplier breaches an agreement to send you certain bikes. Are you still required to pay for the bikes? What if the government breaches its duty to promote life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in that gun violence is the leading cause of death for children and teens? What if new deadly technology is an unanticipated changed condition? Are we required to fulfill the contract term that you believe says there can be no restrictions on guns?

There is no contract or contract term that is like the unerring word of God. You might not like the proposed change to the contract, but you are not the only person who has entered into this contract with the government. When a majority of the people demand a change to the contract, the contract will be modified.

Whichever group has the most “firepower” gets to create the new contract.

Do you believe in the rule of law or the rule by firepower?

The rule of law is the basis for your contract arguments. If you reject the rule law, you reject the notion of an enforceable contract. You’re rejecting the Constitution itself.

This world has always been controlled by those with the most “firepower”.

The biggest, baddest caveman would knock some of the other dudes out and take whatever he wanted. If someone challenged him, they would have to knock him out or kill him to be in charge and make the rules.

Remember the Declaration of Independence:

"The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America, When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security".

Before you rush to throw off the Government to secure a right added as an afterthought, you may want to slow the fuck down and consider the main point of the paragraph, bolded above at the opening of the paragraph.

The goal: life, liberty, pursuit of happiness.
The means: consent of the people.

When the majority of Americans want common sense gun laws to secure their life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, the minority who want unfettered gun rights must concede to the will/power of the majority.

You can’t seriously think you are authorized to use force by the words at the tail end of the paragraph without working through the first part of the paragraph.

Careful. SCOTUS raped the word “Liberty” in that document as justification to overturn Roe with Dobbs.

When the majority of Americans want common sense gun laws to secure their life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, the minority who want unfettered gun rights must concede to the will/power of the majority.

Is that how it works? Just because “the majority” wants it?

What if “the majority” of the country used some interpretation of higher crime rates committed by minorities to justify “common sense laws” that targeted minorities?

I support stricter regulations for guns but it has nothing to do with “the majority’s” thoughts or desires or anything other than common sense and what is practical for this right.

Originalists think of the Constitution and Bill of Rights as a contract that was created between the people and the government.

If you were to enter into a contract today, would you want it interpreted 100 years from now differently than you intended at the time it was signed?

The 2nd Amendment is telling the government that the people can use any arm that they deem fit to protect themselves against crime or tyrannical governments. The existing government can be killed, removed, and replaced if they don’t do what the people want.

I love contract law. Most litigation involving contracts arises because of changed conditions, unanticipated expenses or delays, failures to perform all the requirements under the contract, etc. Any one of these things can be used to argue that the original contract should not be in effect.

Consider when a supplier breaches an agreement to send you certain bikes. Are you still required to pay for the bikes? What if the government breaches its duty to promote life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in that gun violence is the leading cause of death for children and teens? What if new deadly technology is an unanticipated changed condition? Are we required to fulfill the contract term that you believe says there can be no restrictions on guns?

There is no contract or contract term that is like the unerring word of God. You might not like the proposed change to the contract, but you are not the only person who has entered into this contract with the government. When a majority of the people demand a change to the contract, the contract will be modified.

Whichever group has the most “firepower” gets to create the new contract.

Do you believe in the rule of law or the rule by firepower?

The rule of law is the basis for your contract arguments. If you reject the rule law, you reject the notion of an enforceable contract. You’re rejecting the Constitution itself.

This world has always been controlled by those with the most “firepower”.

The biggest, baddest caveman would knock some of the other dudes out and take whatever he wanted. If someone challenged him, they would have to knock him out or kill him to be in charge and make the rules.

Remember the Declaration of Independence:

"The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America, When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security".

Before you rush to throw off the Government to secure a right added as an afterthought, you may want to slow the fuck down and consider the main point of the paragraph, bolded above at the opening of the paragraph.

The goal: life, liberty, pursuit of happiness.
The means: consent of the people.

When the majority of Americans want common sense gun laws to secure their life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, the minority who want unfettered gun rights must concede to the will/power of the majority.

You can’t seriously think you are authorized to use force by the words at the tail end of the paragraph without working through the first part of the paragraph.

Of course he can. People often grasp on to tiny phrases to justify themselves. Look at religious Snakehandlers or any number of cults.

When the majority of Americans want common sense gun laws to secure their life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, the minority who want unfettered gun rights must concede to the will/power of the majority.

Is that how it works? Just because “the majority” wants it?

What if “the majority” of the country used some interpretation of higher crime rates committed by minorities to justify “common sense laws” that targeted minorities?

I support stricter regulations for guns but it has nothing to do with “the majority’s” thoughts or desires or anything other than common sense and what is practical for this right.

Why do we hold elections if we aren’t governed by the majority? Who do you think gives power to our leaders? Do you want to he governed by someone other than the majority?

When the majority of Americans want common sense gun laws to secure their life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, the minority who want unfettered gun rights must concede to the will/power of the majority.

Is that how it works? Just because “the majority” wants it?

What if “the majority” of the country used some interpretation of higher crime rates committed by minorities to justify “common sense laws” that targeted minorities?

I support stricter regulations for guns but it has nothing to do with “the majority’s” thoughts or desires or anything other than common sense and what is practical for this right.

Why do we hold elections if we aren’t governed by the majority? Who do you think gives power to our leaders? Do you want to he governed by someone other than the majority?

I would question your conclusion that the majority wants stricter gun laws, but it that is true then there is a tried and true mechanism to grant that majorities wishes.

BTW, it is being discussed in SCOTUS as I write, and it doesn’t look good for the bump stock ban, but not for the reasons most predicted. They are going back to the Chevron debate and asking why congress didn’t simply make them against the law. They are more interested in the ATF overreach.

This is how you bump fired before those evil bumpstocks:

https://youtu.be/lJ0jTMLK9jI?si=LnDbajGOOZ_qE1sN

Will the ATF try to make belt loops illegal next?

Why did the american gun community roll over and give up when the govt banned automatic firearms the first time? That was totally unconstitutional then, and nobody pushed back. How come?

Originalists think of the Constitution and Bill of Rights as a contract that was created between the people and the government.

If you were to enter into a contract today, would you want it interpreted 100 years from now differently than you intended at the time it was signed?

The 2nd Amendment is telling the government that the people can use any arm that they deem fit to protect themselves against crime or tyrannical governments. The existing government can be killed, removed, and replaced if they don’t do what the people want.

I love contract law. Most litigation involving contracts arises because of changed conditions, unanticipated expenses or delays, failures to perform all the requirements under the contract, etc. Any one of these things can be used to argue that the original contract should not be in effect.

Consider when a supplier breaches an agreement to send you certain bikes. Are you still required to pay for the bikes? What if the government breaches its duty to promote life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in that gun violence is the leading cause of death for children and teens? What if new deadly technology is an unanticipated changed condition? Are we required to fulfill the contract term that you believe says there can be no restrictions on guns?

There is no contract or contract term that is like the unerring word of God. You might not like the proposed change to the contract, but you are not the only person who has entered into this contract with the government. When a majority of the people demand a change to the contract, the contract will be modified.

Whichever group has the most “firepower” gets to create the new contract.

Do you believe in the rule of law or the rule by firepower?

The rule of law is the basis for your contract arguments. If you reject the rule law, you reject the notion of an enforceable contract. You’re rejecting the Constitution itself.

This world has always been controlled by those with the most “firepower”.

The biggest, baddest caveman would knock some of the other dudes out and take whatever he wanted. If someone challenged him, they would have to knock him out or kill him to be in charge and make the rules.

Remember the Declaration of Independence:

"The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America, When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security".

Before you rush to throw off the Government to secure a right added as an afterthought, you may want to slow the fuck down and consider the main point of the paragraph, bolded above at the opening of the paragraph.

The goal: life, liberty, pursuit of happiness.
The means: consent of the people.

When the majority of Americans want common sense gun laws to secure their life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, the minority who want unfettered gun rights must concede to the will/power of the majority.

You can’t seriously think you are authorized to use force by the words at the tail end of the paragraph without working through the first part of the paragraph.

Of course he can. People often grasp on to tiny phrases to justify themselves. Look at religious Snakehandlers or any number of cults.

the phrase “shall not be infringed” comes to mind.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/...ts/audio/2023/22-976
.

About time this dumb automatic weapons (and automatic firing aids) ban is overturned.

But I am still wondering, why did the american gun community roll over and give up when the govt banned automatic firearms the first time? That was a totally unconstitutional move then, and nobody pushed back. How come?

About time this dumb automatic weapons (and automatic firing aids) ban is overturned.

But I am still wondering, why did the american gun community roll over and give up when the govt banned automatic firearms the first time? That was a totally unconstitutional move then, and nobody pushed back. How come?

Politics of the time. Gangs were shooting up the Midwest like it was open season. The FBI was being slaughtered daily. The average citizen couldn’t afford the weapons anyway, so why not make it illegal for anyone else to have one.

Times have changed.

For the record, the ban on short barreled shotguns (same law) was challenged and upheld at least twice. I believe the finding was that a “scatter gun” had no use in a well regulated militia.

About time this dumb automatic weapons (and automatic firing aids) ban is overturned.

But I am still wondering, why did the american gun community roll over and give up when the govt banned automatic firearms the first time? That was a totally unconstitutional move then, and nobody pushed back. How come?Politics of the time. Gangs were shooting up the Midwest like it was open season. The FBI was being slaughtered daily. The average citizen couldn’t afford the weapons anyway, so why not make it illegal for anyone else to have one.

Sure, but, taking the “originalist” view, the constitution in that area (the 2A) has not changed, so I still don’t understand why the gun rights community did not push back on constitutional grounds. Where was our hero Clarence?

Unless, of course, the interpretation of the constitution changes with every passing fashion … does it?

Sorry to jump in so late in the thread, but shouldn’t it be a requirement that, to label yourself a “2A absolutist,” you need to support the whole amendment? If you support free speech but not freedom of religion, you can’t call yourself a “1A absolutist,” so I don’t get why someone who skips the whole well-regulated-militia part gets to call themselves a 2A absolutist. Gun Rights absolutist, sure.

Should I start a militia?

But I am still wondering, why did the american gun community roll over and give up when the govt banned automatic firearms the first time? That was a totally unconstitutional move then, and nobody in the gun groups really pushed back. How come?

When the majority of Americans want common sense gun laws to secure their life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, the minority who want unfettered gun rights must concede to the will/power of the majority.

Is that how it works? Just because “the majority” wants it?

What if “the majority” of the country used some interpretation of higher crime rates committed by minorities to justify “common sense laws” that targeted minorities?

I support stricter regulations for guns but it has nothing to do with “the majority’s” thoughts or desires or anything other than common sense and what is practical for this right.

Why do we hold elections if we aren’t governed by the majority? Who do you think gives power to our leaders? Do you want to he governed by someone other than the majority?

I would question your conclusion that the majority wants stricter gun laws, but it that is true then there is a tried and true mechanism to grant that majorities wishes.

BTW, it is being discussed in SCOTUS as I write, and it doesn’t look good for the bump stock ban, but not for the reasons most predicted. They are going back to the Chevron debate and asking why congress didn’t simply make them against the law. They are more interested in the ATF overreach.

Whether the majority wants stricter gun laws will likely be made evident during the next few election cycles.

The Sandy Hook kindergarten class is graduating from high school this year and will be eligible to vote in November. The Uvalde shooting last year was right about graduation time and seems to be evidence that our gun problem hasn’t magically solved itself. These kids have had active shooter drills throughout their school life. I think, although I don’t know, that they might feel more in favor of common sense gun laws than some of the posters on this forum.

BTW, it is being discussed in SCOTUS as I write, and it doesn’t look good for the bump stock ban, but not for the reasons most predicted. They are going back to the Chevron debate and asking why congress didn’t simply make them against the law. They are more interested in the ATF overreach.

Well, hopefully, they will also invalidate the totally unconstitutional automatic weapons ban. Then every Tom, Dick, Harry, drug dealer, school shooter, and walmart mass murderer will get one. And you think a semi auto rifle can cause serious carnage? Well, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet!

Hmm, maybe they should give the decision a nice name? I would suggest “The Undertaker and Funeral Home Full Employment Override.”