While it’s probably safe at these levels, I’d avoid silicon dioxide when there’s a potential for inhalation (maybe paranoid).
Starch products (corn, tapoica, rice, potato) are almost entirely amylose and amylopectin, which are chains of glucose. Google sez powdered sugar contains 3-5% starch (when it contains starch), so your 1:1 ratio becomes at worst 105:95, which isn’t something to worry about. The longer chains will be broken down differently, but you’d know if it was a problem for you.
If powdered sugar works better for you for whatever reason, it’s a fine substitute for plain sugar (though, again, I’d avoid silicon dioxide).
There was a whole long discussion about this ‘fat adapted’ topic you may want to chime in on instead of being a contrarian on this plea for advice topic.
Sure some people find they can race fasted by thinking they are fat adapted, but the reality is you run out of muscle glycogen that your gluconeogenesis cannot replace fast enough at high effort levels.
I assume you mean mg of sodium. Seems low in that category unless you are supplement with something else. You could easily double the sodium citrate to get a better level for sweat replacement.
Yes, meant mg and you’re right that would be low for me. I think doubling would be a good place to start, possibly tripling when it gets hot this summer as I’m a very salty sweater. Good catch, thanks!
Also, from reading above maybe I try 40g fructose and 50g maltodextrin to start.
Lastly, sodium vs potassium citrate? My recipe calls for the former, but lots of posts above indicate the latter?
Honestly a good place to start is just using table sugar. 1:1 glucose/fructose. Adding additional malto is used to help any GI issues that may come up, so test it out and see. (Table sugar is just way cheaper).
Sodium is what you need the most. People may include potassium in some recipes because its a common electrolyte, but fairly unnecessary. And definitely dont take sodium out if you add potassium.
The recipe I use: I use gatorade powder with sugar and sodium citrate in various weighed out ratios. Tastes just like gatorade but with the obvious benefits of more carbs and sodium. I use blue or yellow G powder cause thats what I like and can find.
Ratio for 90g/hr CHO + 1000mg Na in a 750/1000ml bottle
~60g sugar
~30g G powder
~4g sodium citrate
For slower rides/runs or hotter days I reduce the sugar down depending on the carb intake I am targeting.
Potassium is secreted in sweat at a ratio of between 1/4 - 1/10th of the total sodium. Its just not secreted in a significant enough amount to be of a concern. Further, excess potassium consumption can cause excess urination as the kidneys work to excrete the potassium and take water AND SODIUM with it. You can’t JUST excrete potassium. Some sodium will get caught too…and that will take more water with it.
So…if you are a heavy sweater, doing a multi-day event, then it may be advantageous to take in maybe 25% potassium to stave off hypokalemia. EG, it might be a factor at Barclay. But, in events under a day, its just not necessary…and can actually lead to greater plasma volume loss when consumed in excess.
The more heat acclimated a person is, the lower the sodium and potassium concentrations in their sweat…and therefore the lower the potassium replacement needs will be.
Sodium is the PRIMARY driver in water retention and consequent plasma volume.
I use Dr. Alex’s app. But, its damn near identical as a baseline. That said, it departs significantly from that baseline based on intensity, duration, and heat…:
CHO:
40g/hr @ <1hour to 120g/hr CHO for 4+ hours
Sodium:
250mg / hr (recovery-cool) to 1500mg / hr Sodium (sub-threshold-hot)
Yep, I got the baseline recipe from one of Dr. H’s posts on here.
To save time I have a big quart deli container of pre-mix at this ratio with an old skratch powder scoop. 1 scoop is about 23g so I do 4 scoops for full 90g/hr or less based on length/effort.
Although as it gets hotter this summer I think I’ll make a second container with double the sodium citrate to match sweat and output levels.
With Ironman lacking a carb drink on offer at aid stations now, I’ve been looking more into gels. I can’t stomach the price of most commercial gels (RIP Clif Shot Gels - cheap and delicious), so I’ve been working on my own recipe.
The base recipe is:
100g sugar
50g water
~3g sodium citrate
~2g guar gum
Dump all that into a sauce pan on medium heat and stir like crazy until the sugar melts and most of the water evaporates. If it’s too thick after it cools, you can add back some water to get the consistency you want. This base recipe tastes pretty much exactly like the vanilla Clif Shot gels. I ended up with a total of ~150g of gel mixture (added back some water), so around 5x 30g gels (though I just put them all into a soft flask) with 20g sugar and ~150mg sodium per gel.
Its both
…i believe sodium citrate will have more sodium ions per gram. And the citrate will actually be a mild buffer (vs unused like the chloride ion).
You should probably get to have dinner with @DrAlexHarrison and Michelle as reward for gellifying the Speed Nectar and pissing off gel brands even more!!! (Unless you did it wrong LOL)
Other way around. There are less sodium ions per gram of sodium citrate. That’s because the citrate ion C6H5O7(-3) is much bigger than a chloride ion (Cl-). So, even though it has 3 sodium ions it still takes about 50% more grams of sodium citrate to get the same amount of sodium. So 1g salt = 1.5g sodium citrate.
Note that’s by weight. If you measure by volume (teaspoons or whatever) it closer to double. This is because sodium citrate is also 20% less dense that table salt. So 1/4 tsp salt = 1/2 tsp sodium citrate.
Holy crap that’s a ton of citric acid is my thought. I’d bring it down to an 1/8tsp. If any at all. The reason why I’d avoid the citric acid is you aren’t likely just downing one of these bottles, but multiples. Go google effect of citric acid on tooth enamel. I don’t see any downside to not adding it other than taste, and please don’t destroy your teeth any more than the sugars already are!
Otherwise, I’d actually move the sodium citrate up to 1tsp.
EZ… per 26oz bottle, add the desired quantity of plain ol’ table sugar for the carb level I’m after to “fuel for the work required”. I flavor it with dried citrus from www.truecitrus.com (either the lemon or the lime, buy them in the 500ct boxes). 60gm of sugar or less, 1 packet. More sugar than that, 2 packets. 1gm of sodium citrate. Water. 100gm of sugar, plus the citrus and sodium citrate, runs me about 13 cents per bottle.
