I think you’re missing 1 key component. These cities have to want to host the events. MKE is not going to be able to carry USAT Nationals for the next Xx years without a likely realistic hit on location fatigue. I know plenty of people in my area who hard passed on MKE just on location alone irregardless of how great MKE has done.
So in that sense it has to move around just for the sake of the health of each location. I believe only 1 venue has gone through multiple years of bid- West Chester Ohio for junior Nats. The town basically presented usat with a long term partnership and then it stayed 11 years in same location. I don’t see that happening for AG events however. Usat juniors kinda has a specific pipeline pathway that forces them to race usat events.
Wanna know who got screwed by the event this year? Junior families on avg spent twice as much on the trip as they ever have because of the race timeline. They were forced to come a day earlier and stay a day later than normal events. But no one cares about that, that’s just a footnote discussion point. You guys would raise hell if USAT made y’all race on a Friday, so force it on the group that will be forced to come anyways due to the championship side of the DL series.
And guess what, everything you say is likely correct yet it’ll still get 4K participants next year if not more. I believe the sprint and Olympic (those 2 races used to be the only events at AG Nats) got 3100 people in MKE this year and I imagine that number will be fairly easily achieved. Maybe by year 3 the suckiness of everything has been shown but again I still don’t think it’ll be some massive failure on race numbers. Which again by then they’ll announce it back to MKE and everyone will rejoice. Which has been my whole point. By moving it around they a) keep location fatigue from happening b) basically have the ability to not have it completely fall on its face.
So this idea that AC is going to create the downfall of the event or it’s such a bad spot for the sport, I don’t think will actually come true.
You keep saying location fatigue as the lynchpin to your argument without any proof that it is happening. In fact, even your worse case numbers version said they still went up a small amount this year when many races have dropped significant numbers. Also the most successful races are the ones that have a long term location and time slot, again cutting against that argument. So almost all the actual paying customers in this thread said they like MKE and don’t want to go to AC. I have raced MKE and was planing on going back and will not race AC. AC has an abysmal national reputation as a tourist spot, so good luck getting the back half of the field to show up if they have to pitch this as the big family vacation.
Maybe if they were moving this to something like San Diego there would be a some support for the move, right now this looks like another short-term decision / cash grab, aka classic USAT. They are taking the best thing they have and making it like the multisport nationals event, a poorly located also ran event you don’t even have to qualify for now. Maybe its time that USAT gets out of competing with other race promoters and just runs the referee and insurance programs.
Sorry if I missed it earlier in the thread, but how is the location chosen? Highest bidder? Do we know how many cities bid for 2024? How far were the bids apart?
I’ve done the AC Triathlon the last two years and really enjoyed it both years. The swim in the bay is great - protected, smooth, and moderate water temps. And they always time the race date so the swim takes place at or near high tide - I’ve no doubt AG Nats will be the same. Biking on the AC Expressway is really cool - the pavement is excellent, and between the huge shoulder and one lane closed off, it’s quite wide. The Rt 40 sections have some bumps, and on the way back you have to get off a ramp way and back on another ramp way to make the left lane traffic flow work, and then the first and last 2/3 of a mile is in bader field with a very slow (<10 mph) turn entering and exiting. Overall I enjoy the bike course but it’s not without its issues. The run on the boardwalk is awesome. Ocean breezes and ocean views are refreshing and the boardwalk surface is springy. The race is definitely one I look forward to.
I agree with another poster that Bader Field has a lot of space for parking and transition - the venue is pretty good but I wonder what will happen with the change in ownership.
Atlantic City itself is not fantastic but it’s not nearly as bad as some people are saying here. There are a lot of nice hotels right on the beach or within easy walking distance, and in September tourism really falls off so I’d expect good availability and pricing. The beaches are very big and pretty good overall - clearly the city invests a lot into them. Getting to spend time at the beach before and after racing is definitely a plus for me. I’m not a night life or concert person but for a lot of people that adds value, especially if they’re traveling with a significant other. I’ve been impressed with the restaurant options - a few good plant-based restaurants which is important to me - and of course plenty of seafood and Italian places.
I’ve done the AC Triathlon the last two years and really enjoyed it both years. The swim in the bay is great - protected, smooth, and moderate water temps. And they always time the race date so the swim takes place at or near high tide - I’ve no doubt AG Nats will be the same. Biking on the AC Expressway is really cool - the pavement is excellent, and between the huge shoulder and one lane closed off, it’s quite wide. The Rt 40 sections have some bumps, and on the way back you have to get off a ramp way and back on another ramp way to make the left lane traffic flow work, and then the first and last 2/3 of a mile is in bader field with a very slow (<10 mph) turn entering and exiting. Overall I enjoy the bike course but it’s not without its issues. The run on the boardwalk is awesome. Ocean breezes and ocean views are refreshing and the boardwalk surface is springy. The race is definitely one I look forward to.
I agree with another poster that Bader Field has a lot of space for parking and transition - the venue is pretty good but I wonder what will happen with the change in ownership.
Atlantic City itself is not fantastic but it’s not nearly as bad as some people are saying here. There are a lot of nice hotels right on the beach or within easy walking distance, and in September tourism really falls off so I’d expect good availability and pricing. The beaches are very big and pretty good overall - clearly the city invests a lot into them. Getting to spend time at the beach before and after racing is definitely a plus for me. I’m not a night life or concert person but for a lot of people that adds value, especially if they’re traveling with a significant other. I’ve been impressed with the restaurant options - a few good plant-based restaurants which is important to me - and of course plenty of seafood and Italian places.
Thank you for the perspective of someone who likes it
I think other people just look for things to complain about
I have seen people complain that the bike course has a closed lane next to a lane with traffic
“ Sorry if I missed it earlier in the thread, but how is the location chosen? Highest bidder? Do we know how many cities bid for 2024? How far were the bids apart?â€
Not sure of the exact answers to those questions. But a while back I was searching trying to find where it might be moving next year and came across this:
At first I thought it was a bid from Williamsburg to host it. But on closer reading it appears to be the opposite - it’s from USAT wanting it there and basically trying to sell Williamsburg on hosting. Not positive if I have that right but maybe sheds a little light on how sites are chosen.
I can’t be the only one who goes to races because of the competition as well as what it qualified you for
and no care of if the venue/town is good or bad
Well I’m at least one more. Then again I am single and most always travel to these alone, so factors like things to do for the family which many people mention in talking about sites are not issues I care about. I think I’m in the minority there. But yeah, I’m there to race - the things I care about are specific to the actual race - a fair course, good organization, good roads to ride on, etc.
The history of the championship is interesting. Looks like big growth started around 2010 with Milwaukee having the biggest turnouts. I would think that a central location in the US will always draw the larger race and best competition.
Interestingly some of USAT’s selection criteria are:
USA TRIATHLON SITE SELECTION CRITERIA USA Triathlon will use the following guidelines in reviewing the proposal and in the selection process. • Swim Course: Clean, scenic body of water, with temperatures ranging between 60F and 80F. • Weather: Moderate and reliable (No threats of hurricanes, searing heat, forest fires, etc.) • Bike Course: Safe course with roads that are entirely closed to traffic and can accommodate the athletes comfortably. Road conditions are good with minimal safety concerns. • Hotels: Should be able to service 5,500 athletes plus staff, friends, family, spectators, and sponsors. Dorms, home stays, campgrounds, etc., are alternative housing options. Attempts should be made to minimize the cost of the hotel room block. (USA Triathlon reserves the right to use preferred housing partner to source necessary rooms). • Race Venue: Adequate space for swim start/finish, transition area, finish line, athlete recovery area, spectator viewing, parking, and race expo. Venue should not be more than 20 minutes drive from hotels. No split transition area.
I would think that a hurricane is a possibility since hurricane season is June 1 to October 30th. Clearly that is not an issue in Milwaukee or anywhere in the middle of the country.
Thanks for including this list. Nice trip down memory lane. Started wanting to compete at AG nationals with Shreveport and concluded with Cleveland. Fond memories for all of the sites, even Shreveport and the weird closed circuit we had for the bike. Not basing the race in the middle of the country may keep the numbers down but the list shows that participation bounces back, with an upward trend across the decades. The best competition will always be there because the top end wants titles, to qualify, measure themselves against “the bestâ€, their year end ranking, pro card, etc. The pointy end is not affected by site. Atlantic City is not the death knell of short course.
think I’ve said having a 2-3 year location window basically eliminates the event from having fatigue and basically allows freshness. I think 4 years would be about the max where you may run into location fatigue. So no duh there is no data to prove it.
But there is also basically no data to suggest that usat has moved to any location that is going to cause it a sinking ship. Cleveland was the only location that had a huge dramatic drop from year 1 to year 2. So for the most part while all these paying customers on ST are anti AC, I think they will almost assuredly find 4K people.
And again guess what they can go back to MKE the next cycle. Like nothing is permanent here I think that’s the point.
“I would think that a central location in the US will always draw the larger race and best competition.â€
Don’t know for sure but my sense is the central location wouldn’t matter nearly as much as how many people live within a reasonable driving distance. If that’s the case I guess we’ll see next year as AC is close to so many huge population centers like NYC, Philly, DC, Baltimore, etc. I would think they would get record fields there despite what seems to be an anti-AC sentiment on this thread. I suppose we shall see.
think I’ve said having a 2-3 year location window basically eliminates the event from having fatigue and basically allows freshness. I think 4 years would be about the max where you may run into location fatigue. So no duh there is no data to prove it.
But there is also basically no data to suggest that usat has moved to any location that is going to cause it a sinking ship. Cleveland was the only location that had a huge dramatic drop from year 1 to year 2. So for the most part while all these paying customers on ST are anti AC, I think they will almost assuredly find 4K people.
And again guess what they can go back to MKE the next cycle. Like nothing is permanent here I think that’s the point.
This was my first Nationals and I regret having waited so long to participate as I really enjoyed it (besides the timing issue I am having but that’s another post). Since I won’t be traveling to AC, having to wait four years for it to perhaps come back to MLK is a lifetime for me and I suspect I will no longer be competing by then.
There have been a lot of posts on here recently about the decline of triathlon and I was delighted to have seen how much energy and excitement there was in MLK. I hope for you younger participants it continues…
“ Sorry if I missed it earlier in the thread, but how is the location chosen? Highest bidder? Do we know how many cities bid for 2024? How far were the bids apart?â€
Not sure of the exact answers to those questions. But a while back I was searching trying to find where it might be moving next year and came across this:
At first I thought it was a bid from Williamsburg to host it. But on closer reading it appears to be the opposite - it’s from USAT wanting it there and basically trying to sell Williamsburg on hosting. Not positive if I have that right but maybe sheds a little light on how sites are chosen.
Bummer, I think Williamsburg would have been great. Although I’m somewhat biased
Even coming from Va, I’d be far more inclined to travel to MKE than AC
What I’m curious about is how much AC bid to win the event. If we’re talking about an extra 100k, that’s significant but in the grand scheme “only” an extra 25 per athlete. Flying into ACY for most is going to be multiple connections. Flying into a Newark is a longer drive. So for must flyers it’s already worse.
But as has been said the eastern seaboard is very drivable for a massive percent of the population so the gamble could pay off even if the hotel rooms give you scabbies. Ok, that was harsh…
Good info on the # of athletes at Nationals. A big part of the bump starting in Milwaukee 2013 was that triathletes were allowed to compete in both the Olympic and Sprint distances. In Burlington, VT (at least in 2011), we had to choose between the Olympic or Sprint. Racers could not do both. And in many of the championships–if not all of them–in the years before there was only the Olympic distance contested.
