Looking to replace my P3 with a new bike (once things are actually in stock). I really like the Canyon Speedmax and the fit numbers are perfectly inline. It would mostly be used for Tri’s, but I’d like to race a few local USAC TT’s as well.
The Speedmax is not UCI legal. Is this against the rules at the amateur level? I searched around the 2021 USA Cycling Rulebook but it didn’t seem clear.
You can race amateur USAC races on the speedmax. The only races in the USA I’ve seen them pull out a jig is at UCI events or USAC Pro Nationals TT which is run in accordance with UCI rules.
All other races I’ve seen have absolutely zero bike checking, including several major stage races. Take full advantage!
When you say the Speedmax is not “UCI legal,” do you mean that it’s not on the approved list, or that there is some aspect of the design that does not meet UCI regs? It’s an important difference. It costs money to get UCI approved, so some bike manufacturers don’t go after if if that is not their primary market. However, the bike itself may still meet UCI regs even if not on the list.
As previous poster mentioned, probably won’t be an issue in local TTs–unless a competitor gets a bug up their butt and reports a potential violation to an official. I wouldn’t worry about it, unless you plan to go big on TTs. (Not quite the same issue, but I do know of an instance in a local TT in a hotly contested race where a competitor lodged a protest about a racers’ sock height. I think the official’s response was something like, “really?”)
A good example of non-enforcement is HED disks. Technically, these are fairings over spokes and are disqualified under the prohibition against fairings (ie, can only use structural disks such as Renn). Never, ever seen that one enforced.
A good example of non-enforcement is HED disks. Technically, these are fairings over spokes and are disqualified under the prohibition against fairings (ie, can only use structural disks such as Renn). Never, ever seen that one enforced.
I believe the rationale was/is that the fairing does provide some structural role even though there are spokes. Which I think is legit, at least according to HED.
This is Tony Martin using the HED Stinger disk.
Also the entire range of HED Jet faired+spoke non-disk wheels are approved for UCI mass start, and those are just as faired as the disk, just not as deep.
My understanding is that some aspect of the design does not meet UCI regs. Canyon’s website boasts of improvements “outside UCI regulations” and ST articles on the Speedmax call out “These are slippery tube profiles, for sure, and they’re not UCI legal”.
I suppose the question is does it even matter for USAC TT’s if it’s not UCI legal? The USAC rules do call out that UCI equipment regulations apply for events that determine international competition, national teams and records (see below). Which kind of implies UCI equipment regulations don’t matter to your local time trial that I would be racing in. But none of these bikes are cheap, so was hoping to get a stronger confirmation one way or the other. (even though I agree it probably wouldn’t be checked in most cases given it looks like a normal tri bike).
*2021 USAC Rulebook -- https://s3.amazonaws.com/usac-craft-uploads-production/documents/USACycling_RuleBook_5_21.pdf*
*Page 26 -- 1.I(f) Bicycles must meet current UCI technical regulations at events that select 17-18, U23 and Elite riders for international competition or national teams. All bicycles used in National Championships (for UCI recognized classes listed above) and PRT races must comply with the current UCI regulations. At the discretion of USA Cycling, UCI rules may be adopted or modified for other National Championships.*
*Page 158 -- *9A4. The bicycle used to set a National record must comply with current UCI regulations for bicycles even if the event permit did not require UCI bike compliance.
You can race amateur USAC races on the speedmax. The only races in the USA I’ve seen them pull out a jig is at UCI events or USAC Pro Nationals TT which is run in accordance with UCI rules.
All other races I’ve seen have absolutely zero bike checking, including several major stage races. Take full advantage!
Our regionals in Wade NC USAC had the triathletes rip off their BTA hydration or “integrated” or “aero” storage, nutrition, or hydration systems.
I own a Trinity Pro TT, not the tri version. But I train with the hydration integrated on the front for convenience. I took mine off for the event and ran it in it’s “UCI” format. Someone showed up with some BTA stuff to the event and I was in line with them to start when they walked by and pointed at it and said “that has to go”.
I think their issue isn’t necessarily the aero of the tack on so much as unfair hydration/nutrition availability. It’s a TT, it ain’t an Ironman. Suck it up and use a bottle or don’t drink.
So, while you can fully show up on non-UCI bike in a non-UCI position…you probably cannot/shouldn’t show up with a bunch of integrated hydration and storage attached. So if you own a Shiv with the rear wing hydration, take it off. If you own a Trinity with the front hydration fairing, take it off.
You can risk it, but you better have the tools and know how to remove it fast.
If you keep it reasonable, you’re fine. Run your Speedmax, just no integrated hydration/storage attached that looks like a big sail. The bikes with a behind stem bento seem fine, never seen that questioned before.
I have no idea about the technicalities but my experience with my non-legal UTI Speed Concept… parts on my bike that aren’t as far as I know are base bar, fork, BTA hydration and draft storage box… I’ve run it like that with zero penalties.
I suppose like most loosely interpreted rules, the answer is “it dependsâ€. At least for USAC Masters events, they have no restrictions other than 700c wheels front and back, double diamond frame (no P5X), and no obvious fairings. National records do require a UCI legal bike. I have seen officials get bent out of shape over water bottles though, which included the P4. They made a friend have at least a 1/2 full bottle at Nationals.
I personally don’t even mind this, my thing is the hydration as a tool. I know I said “take off the Shiv hydration fairing”. But really I’d be fine if the person just yanked the straw out.
It’s a big penalty to not be trained in a way that you have to break aero to take a drink. Taking a drink in a road racing time trial should mean breaking aero and reaching for a bottle. That’s my only “hangup” really. I wouldn’t even care if someone had a P5x. Sure, it’s an aero gain but the huge gain is when folks can drink or take nutrition in a drink mid-race without breaking aero. That’s a bundle of time lost. Which IMO goes enough against the spirit of time trial versus triathlon that it should be enforced.
If you really “need” hydration in a TT, a 15 second sip isn’t really sufficient or doesn’t matter for your physiology. But being able to race without 10x a sip in a 40k versus a person using a straw like a farm animal can be a HUGE difference. That could be a whole race gel in that hydration for energy. Could drink a whole bottle in aero for that 40k.
Which, if the race is under a 40k, you can argue the hydration becomes a fairing because who really needs a drink for a 20min-ish 10mi race? I don’t even see most cat 4/5’s take hydration on a cross race of 30min. So I can see the point forcing the person to fill it up if you aren’t making them remove it.
I don’t like the UCI in terms of “too much” enforcement, in general. I’m an Obree fan. So no love there for the UCI. But, I think there’s a fundamental “point” about integrated hydration that doesn’t belong in “bike racing” versus triathlon.
I feel it is as fundamental a rule as gravel racing needing to figure out the whole “team tactics or outside assistance” aspect of their racing.
When I had a Dimond I looked into this and at the time the rules clearly stated the only time USAC uses UCI rules is at nationals or events that qualify for nationals.
I think it depends on the race. I’ve raced a local TT, and people we see a lot of Felt IAs and Speed Concepts that aren’t UCI legal. No one says anything. I don’t think anyone really cares until you get up into the regional and national races. I just bought an IA, and I’m planning to race next summer on a Trek Madone instead, because for women I’ve noticed it’s more competitive.
I suppose like most loosely interpreted rules, the answer is “it dependsâ€. At least for USAC Masters events, they have no restrictions other than 700c wheels front and back, double diamond frame (no P5X), and no obvious fairings. National records do require a UCI legal bike. I have seen officials get bent out of shape over water bottles though, which included the P4. They made a friend have at least a 1/2 full bottle at Nationals.
I have 2 UCI legal bikes with 650C wheels. UCI sticker on the top tube. 2012 Felt DA and 2014 Cervelo P2
I think it depends on the race. I’ve raced a local TT, and people we see a lot of Felt IAs and Speed Concepts that aren’t UCI legal. No one says anything
Presuming you’re talking about the U.S., there’s nothing to say because those bikes are 100% legal for USAC TT racing for local TTs. As noted, only a few national-class events are under the UCI umbrella.
The bikes with a behind stem bento seem fine, never seen that questioned before.
Agreed here. I hadn’t seen full-on tri setups attempted at TT’s before, but I could see persnickety USAC officials following whichever rules they decide, on the day.
I suppose like most loosely interpreted rules, the answer is “it dependsâ€. At least for USAC Masters events, they have no restrictions other than 700c wheels front and back, double diamond frame (no P5X), and no obvious fairings. National records do require a UCI legal bike. I have seen officials get bent out of shape over water bottles though, which included the P4. They made a friend have at least a 1/2 full bottle at Nationals.
I have 2 UCI legal bikes with 650C wheels. UCI sticker on the top tube. 2012 Felt DA and 2014 Cervelo P2[/quote
You are correct. I the deal is wheel size needs to be the same front and back, so no Hooker or old school funny bike with the 26" front wheel. A really dumb rule fr sure, because who care if someone wants to ride an acient bike.
They are probably going to be more stringent about race #s. Seriously. The bib numbers for some TTs are huge. I would often fold in the edges to make them smaller. I then would get scolded by the USAC official at the start. Thankfully, I was let go every time with a warning. I’ve seen guys get sent back for a new number, because they wrinkled theirs to get to conform better to their body. And, that cost them a ton of time. Oh…and never on your back…ALWAYS on the side.
I’ve found a friendly chat before the race often helps. I have a custom fit NoPinz suit with the plastic pocket on the back. Even USAC officials understand the sheer horror of sullying a high-end skinsuit with a big external number. So far I have about 80% success on convincing them to let me go with that. Bringing donuts for the officials may also help.
I’ve found a friendly chat before the race often helps. I have a custom fit NoPinz suit with the plastic pocket on the back. Even USAC officials understand the sheer horror of sullying a high-end skinsuit with a big external number. So far I have about 80% success on convincing them to let me go with that. Bringing donuts for the officials may also help.
See, it’s behavior like that–buying your way around the rules–that gives TT a bad rep for being a sport that only those with money to burn can compete in.
