I say that they remove all drug testing for 18 months. Let these guys juice up /dope up on whatever they want. Then see who the real winner is. Seems like the only way to level the playing field is to let everyone cheat.
Everyone knows that. Everyone also knows that crazy people say crazy shit. That’s why you need evidence and there has always been a shocking lack of hard evidence against Lance, George and Levi.
I totally agree w/ you insofar as those guys are still riding now because nothing has met a high enough legal standard to stick (and that is as it should be), but as long as we’re nothing more than a couple of schmucks with keyboards and interwebz access I don’t need “hard evidence” to formulate an opinion; it’s not like I’m affiliated with UCI or WADA or any other related authority (even ST admin), so I feel free to speculate further… Logically, of course, one or the other party HAS to be lying right now, right? Surely we can all agree on that, given there’s really no gray area between their opposing statements. So which side is more believable and why?
That cuckoo Canseco didn’t have anything concrete to substantiate his allegations against McGwire, either, yet circumstantially it seemed highly plausible at the time that McGwire had been juiced up, and years later after having denied repeatedly in the past, in fact he finally 'fessed up. So ultimately Canseco’s lack of personal credibility and the credibility of his accusations were proven to be independent of one another. To me, the parallels today are more alike than not: what Lance has at stake in continuing to lie is far greater than Floyd’s motivation/reward for making shit up.
…but his accusations might still be accurate.
Agreed… but Floyd’s motivations are completely self serving and dishonorable.
Secondly, how far back do we need to go? A lot has changed in the last 10 years. Doping was the ‘norm’ in pro cycling and has been for about 100 years (literally). We’re not talking about a few bad seeds, we’re talking about the entire sport. That’s why I can’t get too worked-up because there MIGHT be a few guys left racing (clean) today who MIGHT have done a little doping 10 or more years ago.
His motivations are secondary to the accusations. If I accuse a neighbour who I’ve despised publicly for decades of comitting some sort of criminal offence the police don’t just walk away and say sorry, we can’t invesitage until someone who does not have self serving or dishonorable motivations makes a complaint. They do some poking around, and if they don’t find anything they put it down to be being a pesky neighbour, but sure as hell they will do some poking around.
Some “real” top level invesitagators need to have a look at this case. I’m not so sure anything will come of it, because I’m not convinced that governments or governing bodies are serious about ridding sport of drug cheats. Their efforts to date have been pathetic and mere policial rhetoric largely (Balco and exception).
As for cycling today - we are not talking about a few bad seeds, cyclists have not cleaned up their sport - doping is still rampant, it’s just as rampant as it is in your local gym.
I say that they remove all drug testing for 18 months. Let these guys juice up /dope up on whatever they want. Then see who the real winner is. Seems like the only way to level the playing field is to let everyone cheat.
No need, we are already seeing a level playing field, just not the field people with rose coloured glasses think they are seeing.
… but Floyd’s motivations are completely self serving and dishonorable.
That may indeed be the case, but just supposing his statements might be true, how self-serving and dishonorable is it of LA & Co to question Floyd’s sanity? As long as we’re weighing motivations, they have far more to lose if Floyd isn’t lying than Floyd has to gain by selling a fabricated story.
If I accuse a neighbour who I’ve despised publicly for decades of comitting some sort of criminal offence the police don’t just walk away and say sorry,
BUT THERE IS NO EVIDENCE! They do walk away when quick look around yields nothing. Then they come back over to your house and serve you with a summons when your neighbor sues you for libel.
Lance has been tested in the past and is being tested today. If he cheated in the past, he didn’t get caught… and if he’s cheating today, he’s passing the required testing standards of the day. That’s about all you can do. As fans, we can accept that, move forward and just enjoy this great sport (but maybe that’s just me).
Wait…Hold on…
Who’s Floyd Landis again?
Well, why are we then so upset with a few baseball players that took drugs which at the time, WERE NOT ILLEGAL?
If I accuse a neighbour who I’ve despised publicly for decades of comitting some sort of criminal offence the police don’t just walk away and say sorry,
BUT THERE IS NO EVIDENCE! They do walk away when quick look around yields nothing. Then they come back over to your house and serve you with a summons when your neighbor sues you for libel.
Lance has been tested in the past and is being tested today. If he cheated in the past, he didn’t get caught… and if he’s cheating today, he’s passing the required testing standards of the day. That’s about all you can do. As fans, we can accept that, move forward and just enjoy this great sport (but maybe that’s just me).
There is plenty of evidence, the old “never failed a drug test” only proves he’s never failed a drug test.
And it isn’t all you can do.
there are ways and means of investigating these issues and/or “catching” drug cheats.
Are we serious or are we just going to go on using drug testing with 5 year out of date methods as the only line of defence against drug cheats.
There is plenty of evidence
OK - I’ll play along. Please list the evidence here. (and remember, hearsay is not admissible).
I’m quite sure these emails aren’t the whole story.
Exactly. These are the selected emails RadioShack chose to release. Any participation in the thread by Lance or his representatives is notably absent.
Lance is right about one thing. This is he said/we said at this point. People can get all uppity about one person’s motives and the lack of failed tests on the other. Frankly…I’ll wait to see what happens with any investigative efforts before I make up my mind who to believe. As many have noted…there seems to be a lot more to the story than either side is telling.
“That cuckoo Canseco didn’t have anything concrete to substantiate his allegations against McGwire, either, yet circumstantially it seemed highly plausible at the time that McGwire had been juiced up, and years later after having denied repeatedly in the past, in fact he finally 'fessed up. So ultimately Canseco’s lack of personal credibility and the credibility of his accusations were proven to be independent of one another. To me, the parallels today are more alike than not: what Lance has at stake in continuing to lie is far greater than Floyd’s motivation/reward for making shit up.”
I was going to touch on this also… it seems there is a grain of truth in what most people say. That grain may be pretty big here, but we may never know. It seems the public doesn’t care as much about baseball as if it is more accepted where we may scrutinize a bit more harshly on the cyclists because it is more of “niche” crowd. If these guys confessed (assuming they are guilty) I don’t think the cycling community will be as “sympathetic”. Besides Lance, who makes the kind of money that professional baseball players make, or football? Cyclists have a lot more to lose. I hope Landis is wrong…
AYLFBSMB!
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Floyd is handling this all wrong by trying to bring down others. It’s coming off like sour grapes.
If I were Floyd’s publicist, here’s what I would suggest…
A reality TV show called “My Name is Floyd”
Each episode would feature Floyd re-riding a race (or stage) course where he had previously competed while on the sauce. Along the way, he stops and helps people in need to atone for his sins.
That’s an awesome idea, a good laugh to log out on… you all have a lovely evening!
Ha, maybe VS will pick that up because it is too intelligent for MTV and E!
Can you provide a for instance? Most people I know that are baseball fans and care about drug use are upset with people who supposedly took steroids, which were illegal to take unless provided for a legit illness or who took drugs banned by baseball, but not tested for.
I’m unaware of any ahletes accused of taking legally obtained, unbanned performance enhancing drugs.
Styrrell
Maybe I am wrong, but I thought that the drugs taken by Bonds, McGuire, etc. at the time we not illegal to take under their unions rules.