Taylor Knibb olympic races

Triathlon Forum
161

Next time Taylor will be 30.5, right at the typical peak age, racing on home soil.
She was just slightly young this time. And you can see that in the rough edges to her performances that could be polished off over the next couple of years.
The trick for your federation is to make sure she understands this and doesn’t go long out of frustration

Something tells me that we won’t see her in LA. I expect her to transition fully to non draft and LC racing.

Our federation hasn’t got a clue. How much money spent and embarrassing results. It’s long past time to clean house.

162

Next time Taylor will be 30.5, right at the typical peak age, racing on home soil.
She was just slightly young this time. And you can see that in the rough edges to her performances that could be polished off over the next couple of years.
The trick for your federation is to make sure she understands this and doesn’t go long out of frustration

Something tells me that we won’t see her in LA. I expect her to transition fully to non draft and LC racing.

Our federation hasn’t got a clue. How much money spent and embarrassing results. It’s long past time to clean house.

Completely agree. And I have to love how the federation appears to pressure athletes or make selections out of the good of future funding and it’s all come back to bite them. Maybe that will turn around with the relay. Maybe they will point fingers at Knibb’s free agency as the reason they need to crack down and have even more control and direction of the process. But it should be clear that USAT is a mess of priorities and funding costly things that will yield little return, and the elite performance team certainly isn’t getting much results and appears to have alienated most of their athletes in the process.

163

Next time Taylor will be 30.5, right at the typical peak age, racing on home soil.
She was just slightly young this time. And you can see that in the rough edges to her performances that could be polished off over the next couple of years.
The trick for your federation is to make sure she understands this and doesn’t go long out of frustration

Something tells me that we won’t see her in LA. I expect her to transition fully to non draft and LC racing.

Our federation hasn’t got a clue. How much money spent and embarrassing results. It’s long past time to clean house.

Forgive my ignorance, can you provide some thoughts on what you think USAT should have done or didn’t do correctly?

I guess I don’t fully understand how much control federations have over their athletes or when they should step in or shouldn’t.

164

Next time Taylor will be 30.5, right at the typical peak age, racing on home soil.
She was just slightly young this time. And you can see that in the rough edges to her performances that could be polished off over the next couple of years.
The trick for your federation is to make sure she understands this and doesn’t go long out of frustration

Something tells me that we won’t see her in LA. I expect her to transition fully to non draft and LC racing.

Our federation hasn’t got a clue. How much money spent and embarrassing results. It’s long past time to clean house.

Forgive my ignorance, can you provide some thoughts on what you think USAT should have done or didn’t do correctly?

I guess I don’t fully understand how much control federations have over their athletes or when they should step in or shouldn’t.

Here’s a fun one that’s not necessarily Olympics related and I truly hope someone can correct me about where the money is coming from. But USAT is providing $3.5 million to fund draft legal university women’s Olympic style racing.

I think this is a worthy goal if some patron donated that money to USAT for that purpose. I think it’s a pretty poor use of member fees, and possibly elite development money if that was the hope.

If you’re going to try to build a market of triathlon, would you sink millions into a subset of a subset of a subset of a market that doesn’t even exist? Or would you focus on your strengths and try to leverage those strengths with increase investment?

Anyone who looks at a SWOT analysis and says, the weakness is where we need to spend millions of our budget is either a genious visionary who can predict the future or someone recklessly (or stupidly) wasting resources. I don’t want to derail everything being discussed into the merits of young women racing non-existent draft legal races, but let’s just cut to the chase – there’s no market there. And to say we have to build it to make the market, when there already is a very vibrant market of other types of triathlon that people are interested in racing, (unfortunately, least of all young women) is a waste.

165

Turning that around, what should USAT invest in (in your view)?

166

Next time Taylor will be 30.5, right at the typical peak age, racing on home soil.
She was just slightly young this time. And you can see that in the rough edges to her performances that could be polished off over the next couple of years.
The trick for your federation is to make sure she understands this and doesn’t go long out of frustration

Something tells me that we won’t see her in LA. I expect her to transition fully to non draft and LC racing.

Our federation hasn’t got a clue. How much money spent and embarrassing results. It’s long past time to clean house.

Forgive my ignorance, can you provide some thoughts on what you think USAT should have done or didn’t do correctly?

I guess I don’t fully understand how much control federations have over their athletes or when they should step in or shouldn’t.

To start with, obviously their scouting for athletes is not up to others and when one considers our population base that is the very first step. Wasting members fees for such mediocre results when it in no way benefits the USAT paying members is sad.

167

And probably regrets opting out of the RR. With 19th in the TT and 19th in the triathlon, odds are good that ironically her best individual result would have been the RR.//

Man you should be her coach with such insight, how did you know she would have a couple of 19ths? No she should not have done the RR, and for several reasons, the glaring one we witnessed in the TT. Her best chance is and always been the MTR, which with the current the way it is, can play into some strengths on the team… You can throw out any individual results now, it is a fresh race with a new perspective.

I would like to hear what happened in the swim, bad placement, some contact, or just feeling off? Because that relay could turn into a real time trial with the water the way it is, which should be good for everyone on our team…

All I can say is that I was very disappointed by Knibb’s performances. I am certain that she did the very best she could but man, what a bummer. I really thought she would just stand up and ride away from everyone and come into T2 with a 2-3 min lead. I guess everything just got messed up by the rain. Had it been dry for the TT and for the tri, I think results would have been quite diff. I know, I know, I know you have be prepared to ride and SBR in any conditions but still. Oh well…

Question from a bike racer (non-triathlete). Just how good of a swimmer is she compared to the best triathlete’s in the world.

From watching it I got the impression that swimming upstream against the current is what made that race. I know that there is drafting in swimming, but I have the impression that drafting into a current is not like drafting into a headwind on the bike. I got the impression that the best swimmers just put the hammer down and the swimmers who are “only” good swimmers got gapped. Very much unlike what would happen if a strong cyclist went to the front of the group into a big headwind.

Also, from 40 years of experience racing bikes, chasing when you can’t just keep a constant power output is much harder. Roads where you have to constantly brake for corners make it harder to chase back to a group. Add in the rain and it’s even worse. A gap that is closable on straight or windy roads might not be closable in the streets of Paris and even less so in the rainy streets of Paris. And that is ignoring the tactical race dynamics in the two groups. If the gap was something that she could close it still might not get closed if she is the only person pulling 20 others around the course.

168

Us Canucks used to have a Taylor. Her name was Paula and hooked up with Eric the American. They still race and have an enviable line of merch and a swell brand called That Triathlon Life. With the right approach you can leverage a poor Olympics to build the brand.

169

Roads where you have to constantly brake for corners make it harder to chase back to a group. Add in the rain and it’s even worse. A gap that is closable on straight or windy roads might not be closable in the streets of Paris and even less so in the rainy streets of Paris.

The top bike power and skill was in the front pack. When you’ve got Duffy and GTB (and CB seems to have gained a lot of skill training in the UK) up front you’re not going to make time in the corners.
And large groups tend to work less effectively.
Yes there was an added swim dynamic this time, but the trend for the really big races is that the top ladies pull out their A game and split the field. A lot of people make the mistake of expecting the olympic race to be like a year 1-3 of the Olympiad race.

170

Us Canucks used to have a Taylor. Her name was Paula and hooked up with Eric the American. They still race and have an enviable line of merch and a swell brand called That Triathlon Life. With the right approach you can leverage a poor Olympics to build the brand.

I was thinking the same thing about Taylor during the race. Paula had such high expectations and she bombed for a variety of reasons. I’m sure it’s different with Taylor, but it’s interesting (and my heart goes out for her) to see a similar experience play out.

171

Question from a bike racer (non-triathlete). Just how good of a swimmer is she compared to the best triathlete’s in the world.//

One of the best, and she recently led an ITU race for over half of it, so that good. But of course that was not after 3 crashes in an hour just days before, so really have no idea what happened to her in that swim. Hopefully we will get something from her once this is all over…

And other good swimmers got caught out too, while some medicare ones did quite well.

172

And probably regrets opting out of the RR. With 19th in the TT and 19th in the triathlon, odds are good that ironically her best individual result would have been the RR.//

Man you should be her coach with such insight, how did you know she would have a couple of 19ths? No she should not have done the RR, and for several reasons, the glaring one we witnessed in the TT. Her best chance is and always been the MTR, which with the current the way it is, can play into some strengths on the team… You can throw out any individual results now, it is a fresh race with a new perspective.

I would like to hear what happened in the swim, bad placement, some contact, or just feeling off? Because that relay could turn into a real time trial with the water the way it is, which should be good for everyone on our team…

All I can say is that I was very disappointed by Knibb’s performances. I am certain that she did the very best she could but man, what a bummer. I really thought she would just stand up and ride away from everyone and come into T2 with a 2-3 min lead. I guess everything just got messed up by the rain. Had it been dry for the TT and for the tri, I think results would have been quite diff. I know, I know, I know you have be prepared to ride and SBR in any conditions but still. Oh well…

Question from a bike racer (non-triathlete). Just how good of a swimmer is she compared to the best triathlete’s in the world.

From watching it I got the impression that swimming upstream against the current is what made that race. I know that there is drafting in swimming, but I have the impression that drafting into a current is not like drafting into a headwind on the bike. I got the impression that the best swimmers just put the hammer down and the swimmers who are “only” good swimmers got gapped. Very much unlike what would happen if a strong cyclist went to the front of the group into a big headwind.

Also, from 40 years of experience racing bikes, chasing when you can’t just keep a constant power output is much harder. Roads where you have to constantly brake for corners make it harder to chase back to a group. Add in the rain and it’s even worse. A gap that is closable on straight or windy roads might not be closable in the streets of Paris and even less so in the rainy streets of Paris. And that is ignoring the tactical race dynamics in the two groups. If the gap was something that she could close it still might not get closed if she is the only person pulling 20 others around the course.

Actually she’s an excellent swimmer, has gone 10:08 for 1000 scy and 17:50 for 1500 scm which is in the range of the top female tri girls. Apparently, she had some problems in the swim though and did not come out in her usual high position.

173

Question from a bike racer (non-triathlete). Just how good of a swimmer is she compared to the best triathlete’s in the world.//

One of the best, and she recently led an ITU race for over half of it, so that good. But of course that was not after 3 crashes in an hour just days before, so really have no idea what happened to her in that swim. Hopefully we will get something from her once this is all over…

And other good swimmers got caught out too, while some medicare ones did quite well.

Who apart from Taylor was a medicare swimmer?

174

Question from a bike racer (non-triathlete). Just how good of a swimmer is she compared to the best triathlete’s in the world.//

One of the best, and she recently led an ITU race for over half of it, so that good. But of course that was not after 3 crashes in an hour just days before, so really have no idea what happened to her in that swim. Hopefully we will get something from her once this is all over…

And other good swimmers got caught out too, while some medicare ones did quite well.

Monty, buddy, you’ve got to try to spell words right. There are no “medicare swimmers” in ITU, but rather there are some “mediocre” swimmers. Otherwise you’re really going to confuse our readers for whom English is not their native language. :slight_smile:

175

Question from a bike racer (non-triathlete). Just how good of a swimmer is she compared to the best triathlete’s in the world.//

One of the best, and she recently led an ITU race for over half of it, so that good. But of course that was not after 3 crashes in an hour just days before, so really have no idea what happened to her in that swim. Hopefully we will get something from her once this is all over…

And other good swimmers got caught out too, while some medicare ones did quite well.

Nobody has addressed the current question. Are there other races at this level where they are swimming in a river with a fairly strong current?

Is drafting in a swim pack in say a lake the same as when swimming into a strong current? As a bike analogy I can imagine drafting in a pack on the flats vs. drafting in a pack on a 4% grade. Some riders who are fine in the flats are going to get dropped on the grade even though it’s not that steep and they are drafting.

I also noticed that how well you managed your turn around from down current to into the current made a difference. Some swimmers didn’t do the turn well and ended up going quite long around the turn bouy. No idea who made that mistake, but I’d imagine that it was fairly costly in that you might miss the draft AND have ground to make up and just go backwards from there. Perhaps some swimmers who were strong enough porked themselves with poor execution of those two turn arounds.

176

All I can say is that I was very disappointed by Knibb’s performances. I am certain that she did the very best she could but man, what a bummer. I really thought she would just stand up and ride away from everyone and come into T2 with a 2-3 min lead.

I think a few of you are being quite unrealistic. She ran ~1min slower than Cassandre at Cagliari but there was only a 15s spread on the podium in Paris.
The olympics is such a massive step up in field performance that riding away by a useful amount is just not going to happen. Even if it were possible, both power and extreme technical proficiency are required.

I’ve had a lady in the WTCS with a bit over 300w FTP and that doesn’t do anything against a motivated pack.

Also, you’re being a bit ambitious given her age

Average ages of the womens podium over the year:
2000 31.2
2004 32.9
2008 24.7
2012 28.5
2016 30.5
2020 31.1
2024 29.2

Next time Taylor will be 30.5, right at the typical peak age, racing on home soil.
She was just slightly young this time. And you can see that in the rough edges to her performances that could be polished off over the next couple of years.
The trick for your federation is to make sure she understands this and doesn’t go long out of frustration

https://www.triathlon.org/results/result/2018_itu_world_triathlon_grand_final_gold_coast/321969

good post at the same time one think is clear beaground has improved her bike skills knibb hasnt
and this was now the 2nd olympics in a row she has not made the front pack .
she is the most versatile triathlete but she still does not have the basics right in open water swimming and bike skills and if she does not adress that i dont really see and improvement for her 2028 . transitons are not world class either after 10 years doing elite races.

if she does not want or cant improve here skills i would say there is no point sticking with short course. long course she is the best.

177

Question from a bike racer (non-triathlete). Just how good of a swimmer is she compared to the best triathlete’s in the world.//

One of the best, and she recently led an ITU race for over half of it, so that good. But of course that was not after 3 crashes in an hour just days before, so really have no idea what happened to her in that swim. Hopefully we will get something from her once this is all over…

And other good swimmers got caught out too, while some medicare ones did quite well.

Nobody has addressed the current question. Are there other races at this level where they are swimming in a river with a fairly strong current?

Is drafting in a swim pack in say a lake the same as when swimming into a strong current? As a bike analogy I can imagine drafting in a pack on the flats vs. drafting in a pack on a 4% grade. Some riders who are fine in the flats are going to get dropped on the grade even though it’s not that steep and they are drafting.

I also noticed that how well you managed your turn around from down current to into the current made a difference. Some swimmers didn’t do the turn well and ended up going quite long around the turn bouy. No idea who made that mistake, but I’d imagine that it was fairly costly in that you might miss the draft AND have ground to make up and just go backwards from there. Perhaps some swimmers who were strong enough porked themselves with poor execution of those two turn arounds.

All good points and that’s why that river swim was awesome, but she MAY have been banged up from bike crashes in the ITT affecting the swim (I don’t know, only she can say, and I doubt she will use that as an excuse).

Dev

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Fully agree that her championship level racing in Olympic fields is a poor use of her talent. Maybe she’ll figure this out and go and dominate in long course. Maybe she’ll be annoyed at being too good in long course like Blu seemed to and just go chase some other goal. I hope she sets a new standard and unseats Ryf as the GOAT. We havent talked about her lately and her Olympic results never lived up to her athletic potential.

An Olympic medal is important and harder to get in so many ways but if she can rack up a dozen 70.3 worlds wins, with some full distance Championships, is anyone ever going to care or talk about the Olympics when she’s 40?

Don’t get me wrong, I think if she can qualify for LA she should race. But perhaps racing in an Olympics should be defined as success for her. You don’t have to win at everything to be successful. The fact that she has the experience can be enough to be proud of.

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This whole idea of racers getting beat up in the swim gets a little harder if you have a team. The drafting tactics improve on the bike and the running becomes inter

Other thought… How do the games change if it’s 12m non drafting?

.

Can you imagine a TV commentator trying to explain a drafting penalty to viewers who have never heard of Triathlon, and just switched over from Ledecky doing a pool TT 😬

Team is an interesting idea, although there’s already a relay.

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I like to analyse things.
Still collecting data to write up analysis of this Olympics.