I do cringe at all the narratives of trying to “double up” as that to me is just a recipe for poor results and/or injuries.
I don’t think anyone with half a brain would consider trying to have a top placement in both IM series and T100. But I think it’s completely possible to commit to T100 plus race Kona/Nice (basically the season plan for Laidlow, Dietlev, RvB, Chevalier, Ryf, Haug, Philipp etc.).
So your half in half out on both series? Or your only “half in” on the paid contract so you can secretly focus on the IM pathway, so then your '25 PTO ranking/gurantee potentially suffers. This half brained idiot has got it. Thanks
Add up the races your looking at 6 PTO races to get the best score (which assume that’s why they would take the contract). 1 IM or 2 70.3 qualifiers + then the world championships in said events of either 70.3 or IM. So they are looking at 9-10 races of “top” quality racing. Which is fantastic, and also a ton of “pressure”. Which is what the WTCS has been like for years, every single race is a “world championship” quality event, so I just think this idea of hedging your bets on both series to maximize revenue/winning is going to be very very complicated.
I think you misunderstood. Not only me but also the ranking system(s).
Regarding PTO / T100
Athletes I’ve named will do at least 6 out of 8 T100 races. The remaining 2 out of 8 give them a bit of flexibility to either not show up or train through a race.In order to get the slot for '25 T100 you need to be either TOP10 in T100 at the end of the season or the remaining TOP6 in the PTO ranking (basically be TOP16; this includes all races, not only T100).Due to the characteristics of T100 100km races, you need shorter recovery time compared to full IM. This enables you to explore outside of T100.
Regarding Kona / Nice / IM Series
In the same time, doing Kona / Nice doesn’t mean doing IM series, not even half-in. It’s a one-off race.Due to the characteristics of IM series (3 full IMs are required for best scoring), you won’t have spare energy to explore anywhere else if you commit to it.
It’s a one-off race.
They took out validation for the winners of IM and 70.3 now? I thought they still had to “validate” to gain their entry to this years world championship?
(I’ve not misunderstood anything)
To race IM as a validation it’s: 1 IM or 2 70.3’s
To race 70.3 as validation its: 1 70.3
So to get the “full” PTO contract according to sources you must race the full schedule. If you do less, you get less money, if you do less you also lose opportunities to offset/place hold/block others. So you can race as little or as much as you want as those guranteed athletes. The more you race, obviously the more travel + racing is on your body. So if you race IM WC as a validated athlete you are doing a min of 2 IM’s more or 2 70.3 + 1 IM more on top of whatever PTO series races you actually decide to do.
Obviously the ones who decide “all in” on PTO will have a better chance at contract for following year + most amount of end of season money success. So unless you just show up and win 3 pto races and scratch the rest, the top 10 are going to almost assuredly be the ones who are “all in” on PTO. The ones who can win 3 times and skip the rest will likely best be positioned to grab that next 6 spots. I dont know that anyone is going to win more than a few who then also do “outside” race series at a top level imo, thus you’ll likely be forced to focus on PTO if you want that '25 contract and the end of year bonuses.
Gotta say the PTO did an incredible job locking down most of the best men/women. They got almost every woman & just a handful of men opted out.//
As much as I’m enjoying the banter of who is going to do what race, do we know about the contracts that got scooped up by the 40 athletes? From the original rumors it seemed $100k was going to be the top tier, I wonder how many and who got those? Did the wild cards like Ali, Gomez, Spivey get the big ones, or was there some 2nd/3rd tier ones? Just doing the math from the race prize money and the overall series bonus, it looks like there was 3 million for these contracts. So I’m thinking maybe 15 of them or so at the #100k, and then some sliding scale…Has anyone who got them spilled the beans as of yet??
And as to who is and is not doing both series, I think the season and how athletes are doing will dictate that. You might have a plan to just do your 6 PTO races, but what if you crash out, get sick, just have a horrible day? Then you will need to add on as the season goes to hold a high place there, and could impact some Ironman race you thought you could squeeze in. And as Brooks pointed out, folks have to validate too.
But the thing is that the P100 races should be super easy to recover from physically, not much more than an olympic and less than a half. Folks do that in a week all the time. What is hard to recover from is the travel and stress of so many A races, that is what will grind on folks. I also dont see anyone trying to win or even podium in both series. But certainly many will hope to place top 5 in PTO and then by default of just doing a couple/few ironman events very well, get a top 4 to 7th place there. It is still good money all around and completely doable for a lot of the athletes. Hell, aren’t a bunch racing this upcoming weekend in a 70.3 already, one down before all the madness even starts…
I’d bet almost every single T100 contracted athlete does one of Olympics/Kona/Nice/Roth/Taupo. Trying to do anymore than that seems unwise, but Sam and the PTO seem to be expecting all the athletes to have a major goal outside the T100 tour.
Monty, sounds like the PTO will be transparent around the contacts so we should have details over the next few months. Sam said they didn’t want to lead with that info, but it won’t be kept secret.
Well the Olympic athletes have already been given an shorter contract demands, and I get it. If you are in the 70.3 or IM validation role, your set. You can race the PTO, train/jog 2 70.3’s and that will NQ (or train/jog an IM to NQ/KQ)
So like Sam Laidlow, no shit he’s going to race all the big boy events, because his KQ is pretty easy. Just “jog” 'an IM or “jog” 2 70.3.
But my point is still not that you can or can’t do it. It’s that the T100 series is going to be top level of racing almost assured. There are going to be handful of guys who automatically are “all in” on it, and thus those guys will almost have any advantage over others who try and max out their race schedule.
So my point isn’t a matter of can it or can’t it be done. Of course a handful of pro’s are going to race as many events as they can. I’m just saying we now have 1 and now with the IM series, 2 high level LC events that you just “jogging through it” isn’t going to help with your PTO ranking for '25.
Years ago when WTCS changed their scoring policy, they removed the 1 day “world championship” to a series scoring system. It irked guys like AB because he was such a great 1 day racer, and also because AB frankly quit racing the “full series” after like '13. He would show up handful of times and skip races even if healthy cus it served no real purpose. So the athletes who race a full PTO schedule and score their top scores and then offset/block others will have a much better success than anyone who thinks they can race the “minimum” races so they can then go race other opportunities. That’s what I think will end up happening here. And the hook is the guranteed '25 contracts that only 10 get. So those spots will be very very valuable to race for.
I do cringe at all the narratives of trying to “double up” as that to me is just a recipe for poor results and/or injuries. I don’t think anyone with half a brain would consider trying to have a top placement in both IM series and T100. But I think it’s completely possible to commit to T100 plus race Kona/Nice (basically the season plan for Laidlow, Dietlev, RvB, Chevalier, Ryf, Haug, Philipp etc.).Looking at this from the contracted athlete viewpoint (and mostly WPRO).
For the IM-incapable (or unwilling) athletes (latter LCB, likely Knibb and possibly Simmonds and Lee) not an issue: crack on, fit in a 70.3 (if not done already) and race TaupÅ if body allows.
The top IM capable lot (Haug, Philipp, Ryf, Sodaro, Matthews, Moench) are contenders for the IM Series. Is any non-T100 athlete in the frame? Name them (WPro)?
Brooks has pointed out that anyone wanting to race IMWC will have to race an IM, either to get a slot or to validate. So you may as well do Texas (6 WPRO and that excludes the validators).
And racing TaupÅ will not affect the March to November season other than being ‘a bit tired’ from the Grand Final. But everyone in the top 10 will be in the same boat: they’ll all have raced the GF in the “Middle East”.
Therefore you have these women who can expect IM Series scores from Texas, Nice and Taupo. They need to fit in another IM series IM (Hamburg or other) and a 70.3. Sorted! (Ha ha!) And just weave in T100 100km races (March, June, July, September, October, November (drop one and race two easy eg ibiza after Nice) and finish off with the GF (13 days after T100 Dubai, same region). Fly to Auckland and race TaupÅ.
Gruelling but doable. Athletes will set off on this track and then modify their aims as they fail to achieve results or suffer injury/DNFs. And with both lobes of brain functioning: it’s a professional choice.
T100 might be settled two-thirds through the season (by Gentle in Knibb’s absence) and the GF being a coronation parade. LCB may have something to say about that. Much will depend on the Miami result: Gentle seems to start off slowly and build. But Knibb will come to Miami (I’m guessing, and with Spivey, both to get one of their contracted 3 in the bank) well down the Paris prep track and firing on all cylinders. Then disappear till Ibiza.
But the IM Series will go down to the wire at TaupÅ and will be between those who have raced top 6 at Nice.
Exciting times.
With this new T100 race series and bonuses, I am assuming that this replaces the annual bonus payout to the top 50 ranked pro?
If so, seems all the cash is concentrated on the elite 20!
With this new T100 race series and bonuses, I am assuming that this replaces the annual bonus payout to the top 50 ranked pro?
If so, seems all the cash is concentrated on the elite 20!Not so. The end-of-year PTO bonuses are set to continue as normal (and apparently with the same amount in total). I have not seen a 2024 revision distribution announced so assume ‘no change’.
Athletes not contracted to T100 can get a few excellent scores, if they’re good enough, in particular by finishing well in the IMWC (Diamond), the 70.3WC, WT LDWC https://townsville.triathlon.org/…-distance-triathlon/ and Roth (all Platinum). The latter two will offer less points because the SOF is certain to be low. Gold tier events (eg all the IMs in the IM Series and a few of the 70.3s) also offer good scores as the SOF (well surely for Texas, Hamburg and Frankfurt) will be high; and NB an additional 5% bonus for the best (not IMWC) IM.
I assume the scoring protocol will remain the same, with an athlete’s ranking points being the average of their best 3 events and the scoring system for each race based on several factors: tier of race, SOF, position and time.
https://www.protriathletes.org/...orld-ranking-system/
Clearly theT100 twenty are likely to fill many of the top 15: they have at least 4 (some 8 or more) Diamond races to take their best 3 from so they will take the lionesses’ share of the PTO EoY bonus pool monies.
To note the ranking list in December 2024 will be used to determine who gets contracts #11-#16 for 2025 T100.
https://t100triathlon.com/pro-series-explainer/
SO they are going to pay out 7 million to the series folks, and then have a separate payout for the top 50 in the rankings too?
Do you know how those top 50 payouts will compare to the 2 million in series payouts will be??? I see the top in the series is $210k, so a not so subtle shout out to ironman and their 200k payout for top dogs…
SO they are going to pay out 7 million to the series folks, and then have a separate payout for the top 50 in the rankings too?
Do you know how those top 50 payouts will compare to the 2 million in series payouts will be??? I see the top in the series is $210k, so a not so subtle shout out to ironman and their 200k payout for top dogs…
“In addition to over $3M in athlete contracts, there will be $250k up for grabs at each T100 event ($125k per gender), totalling $2M over the 8-race T100 Triathlon World Tour, plus a huge end-of-season payout total of $2M paying down to 20th – with each T100 World Champion bagging an extra $210,000 for securing the top spot.”
https://t100triathlon.com/pro-series-explainer/
The ‘compensation’ schedule for an athlete’s EoY PTO Ranking has, as far as I can discover, not been announced, but (I’m relying on memory from various PTO interviews here) I think the intention is to carry that on. I can see the payouts being flattened, which might be to the benefit of the #11-#30 list and keep the #31-#50 sum the same. The PTO don’t need to reward the T100 athletes more than 3 times (contract plus T100 prize purse plus T100 Series ranking bonus).
2023: https://www.trirating.com/deep-dive-into-the-2023-triathlon-money-list/
Ok, I thought you had said it “will” be going on this year, you just think so at the moment.
I only say this as my “feeling” is that the PTO series payouts is going to replace the old top 50 ones. It seems a bit redundant to pay twice for a ranking, being that most will come from their series rankings anyway. And the other end of that is, why pay out to Ironman series folks for their achievements outside of your races? I mean it is ok to give them rankings and all, you want the ones that rise to the top to be eligible to take a contract in your series once they have made a name for themselves. But paying them doesnt seem cost effective, at least as far as your brand and what you are trying to build goes…
Why would Olympic pathway athletes like Knibb and Spivey race the Miami event? Abu Dhabi WTCS is the same weekend in March (sprint & MR events) and Knibb is on record as saying she will race in Abu Dhabi.
Why would Olympic pathway athletes like Knibb and Spivey race the Miami event? Abu Dhabi WTCS is the same weekend in March (sprint & MR events) and Knibb is on record as saying she will race in Abu Dhabi.You’re right. They are very unlikely to race Miami (pity). I had thought it might be a chance to get’ one in the bag’ to satisfy their T100 contracted number of races. They can race Ibiza (Sep), Las Vegas (Oct) and Dubai (Nov). But it gives them no wriggle room if they are to satisfy their contracts (three plus GF). Will Spivey try to race Superleague again?
I personally like the fact that racers like Spivey are putting the Olympic race first, no matter how much money long course organizations throw at them.
(Paradoxically, I also like the fact that she has signed up. Most exciting name on the list for me).
I personally like the fact that racers like Spivey are putting the Olympic race first, no matter how much money long course organizations throw at them.
(Paradoxically, I also like the fact that she has signed up. Most exciting name on the list for me).Absolutely agree first bit. Same applies to Blummenfelt (and Iden, and Luis, and Wilde) saying ‘no thanks’ to the PTO (this (Olympic) year).
I fervently hope USAT give her that (deserved) second slot in the team (chance of any more US athletes AQing seems nil). Assuming completely fit again, you could not have a more reliable Leg 2 and even an accomplice for Knibb (and another?) front pack on the bike a few days earlier.
I hope that her signing the contract does not reduce her standing with the selectors: however her 2024 actions will make her primary objective crystal clear and USAT will have complete visibility.
Of course if she doesn’t get the nod in May she can race T100 on the West Coast in June and London in July, and then pop over to watch her friends race Paris and cheer them on in the MTR.
Ibiza is a few days after the WTCS Final in Pontevedra (both Spain).
It will be interesting to see Spivey race in Ibiza: she’ll have raced minimal/no TT. She will surely stay with LCB in the water but I shall guess not able to stay with her (or Knibb when/if she catches up) on the bike. Gentle will have some catching up to do for sure. Spivey v LCB starting the run clear would interesting: in WTCS Leeds (May 2021 pre-Tokyo) LCB was 23 seconds faster over 10km. After 80km in TT this September . . . All those coming across from Nice will be fatigued so it’ll be between them (mentioned above) and an on-form Findlay.
https://wtcs.triathlon.org/results/result/2021_world_triathlon_leeds/452748
Ok, I thought you had said it “will” be going on this year, you just think so at the moment.
I only say this as my “feeling” is that the PTO series payouts is going to replace the old top 50 ones. It seems a bit redundant to pay twice for a ranking, being that most will come from their series rankings anyway. And the other end of that is, why pay out to Ironman series folks for their achievements outside of your races? I mean it is ok to give them rankings and all, you want the ones that rise to the top to be eligible to take a contract in your series once they have made a name for themselves. But paying them doesnt seem cost effective, at least as far as your brand and what you are trying to build goes…
i’m with you on the payouts - it’s a money-distribution system, for sure, but why specifically subsidize other series? also i’ve always figured that if the purpose was developing athletes and ensuring tight competition, paying out 100k year-end to athletes like lucy or jan or kristian is kind of a ‘waste,’ in the sense that they’re already making lots of money. whereas 20k each to a handful of “nearly there” pros could really be a game changer and get them on to some big start lines.
here again with my sense that the PTO needs a really clarified purpose. if they’re only an athlete’s union, paying out year-end bonuses across the board makes more sense. if they’re a promotional agency it makes some sense. if they’re a racing series, it makes very little sense.
Ok, I thought you had said it “will” be going on this year, you just think so at the moment.
I only say this as my “feeling” is that the PTO series payouts is going to replace the old top 50 ones. It seems a bit redundant to pay twice for a ranking, being that most will come from their series rankings anyway. And the other end of that is, why pay out to Ironman series folks for their achievements outside of your races? I mean it is ok to give them rankings and all, you want the ones that rise to the top to be eligible to take a contract in your series once they have made a name for themselves. But paying them doesnt seem cost effective, at least as far as your brand and what you are trying to build goes…
i’m with you on the payouts - it’s a money-distribution system, for sure, but why specifically subsidize other series? also i’ve always figured that if the purpose was developing athletes and ensuring tight competition, paying out 100k year-end to athletes like lucy or jan or kristian is kind of a ‘waste,’ in the sense that they’re already making lots of money. whereas 20k each to a handful of “nearly there” pros could really be a game changer and get them on to some big start lines.
here again with my sense that the PTO needs a really clarified purpose. if they’re only an athlete’s union, paying out year-end bonuses across the board makes more sense. if they’re a promotional agency it makes some sense. if they’re a racing series, it makes very little sense.
Yes it seems a small few will make all the money, is already this way but will be even more so. Everyone else is potentially locked out of the series and decent money for their careers now due to the skewed points system.if they are not in, it is going be extremely hard to get there.
Paula trolling a bit
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