I’m looking to knock 13 minutes off my marathon PR to go sub-3 hours. So a question to those in the 2:55-3:00 range:
I have 20 weeks.
Thks!
Be able to run your last 20 miler easily in the 7:15 - 7:30 range feeling better as the run goes on 3 weeks out.
Be able to knock out your 12 - 15 milers in the middle of the week and still have a mid-week tempo session where you are comfortably hitting 6:30-ish for your tempo pace.
When I was going for it I used one of Pfitzinger-Douglas’ plans which peaked at 69 miles a week for me. My best 20 miler (had 3 or 4 of them in the plan) was run at 7:06 pace comfortably. Problem was, I got the flu the week of the race and ended up dropping out after 5 miles as I simply was not recovered from the illness and knew I couldn’t maintain my 6:50 pace. Sucks because that was by far the best running shape I had ever been in my life and was on pace based on my training runs and races to run a 2:55-ish race.
I always run a race simulation about a month out at my race pace for 20 miles. I did this for 4 marathons and 3 out of the 4 (Boston heat kicked my butt) I was equal to or faster my goal pace.
I don’t follow any plans. For instance, for my last marathon I ran a half marathon every other day for like a month leading up to the race. I averaged about 6:47 for these which for me is about 10 seconds over race pace. Seemed to work for me. Yes, I had slow days when I was tired. Totally gave up the bike for about 6 weeks.
What does your week look like? I’m just curious since I’m in the same boat. Well, kinda sorta. My PR is 3:14, but would like to come closer to 3:00 than 3:14 on my next race. However, I’m not quite as amibitious as you. I have no illusions of hitting 3:00. I don’t have the 20 weeks of training time that you do. However, I’d probably would shoot for the same goal as you if I did.
I will peak around 85 miles. I do 2-a-day M, Tu, Thur. Long run Sat. Semi long runs (10-12 miles) on Wed and Sun. I do temp runs once a week, but no track workout. Friday is my day off, for physical and sanity reasons 
My benchmarks were an 18:30 5k (12wks out) and a 38:xx 10k (1 wk out) leading up to the race.
My weekly mileage was building to 2 weeks at 70 miles for the first, 80 mpw for the second.
My own plan after reading DRF and Advanced Marathoning
3 key workouts/wk:
Monday, I ran 3x1 mile at threshold (6:20ish) as the main set of a 8-9 mile run.
Thursday, I ran 90’ with 30-60@ marathon pace.
Saturday, I built to 2:30 as:
30’ @ EZ 8s
60’ @ Marathon
30’ @ EZ 8s
30’ @ Marathon
Long run strategy:
I alternated Long runs every other week. The short weeks were 90’ Sat (just like Thursday) and 60-90’@EZ Sunday. Never longer than 2:30.
Remainder of miles:
-I ran everyday. The days without workouts were 30-60’@EZ depending on where I was in the volume builder how I felt. These were easy easy easy, do no harm runs.
I would say the 2:30 Sat run was the biggest benchmark. It took me a few tries to nail that last 30’. When I did, it was a huge confidence builder.
I coasted in 2:59:09 relatively comfortably for a marathon.
2011 Rocket City Race report
—edit to add my typical long run average pace would be 7:15. Hope it helps!
I wouldn’t say 3 weeks prior to marathon, but months leading up to the race you need to be able to run big miles week in and week out. Running 2 times a day helped me a ton, not 2 hard runs. Maybe a tempo early in the morning then a 5 mile easy run to shake out legs in the late afternoon/evening.
I also did most of my long runs at race pace so I would not be surprised how hard it was going to be. I know this isn’t recommended, but I like being prepared rather than running 7:30 miles all the way through training for 20 miles then on race day run 45 seconds per mile faster… Never made any sense to me.
Do more than a couple long runs in 20+ mile range. Do at least 5 or 6 if you have to. If you feel comfortable in your final long run going race pace for at least the last 60-70% of the run you will be super confident going into the race.
In addition to the long run with MP work, I’m a big fan of the hour progression run as a fitness test.
Warm up the first mile and progress through the first 30 minutes in equal predetermined segments (e.g. 1/2 miles, 1 miles, 3 minutes, etc.- at each marker, speed up slightly, but equally). The progression should work so your at MP just before or at the 30 minute mark. Keep the progression going until an hour. Your back half will be faster than marathon pace and your front half slower, but the whole hour will average marathon pace.
I would do this every other week during a cycle, and as I gained fitness, the interval to increase pace would decrease.
FYI - this is pretty similar to a VO2 max test if you have ever done one, just longer.
Yasso 800’s are a good test. 10X800M with 400M recovery in between. Average out your 800 times. It should be your marathon time if you make the minutes hours. For example, your average for the ten 800s was 2 minutes 57 seconds, then you should be able to run a 2:57 marathon. It was very accurate for me, I ran a 2:57 at New York a few years ago. Both the Yasso and the marathon hurt.
Be able to run your last 20 miler easily in the 7:15 - 7:30 range feeling better as the run goes on 3 weeks out.
Be able to knock out your 12 - 15 milers in the middle of the week and still have a mid-week tempo session where you are comfortably hitting 6:30-ish for your tempo pace.
When I was going for it I used one of Pfitzinger-Douglas’ plans which peaked at 69 miles a week for me. My best 20 miler (had 3 or 4 of them in the plan) was run at 7:06 pace comfortably. Problem was, I got the flu the week of the race and ended up dropping out after 5 miles as I simply was not recovered from the illness and knew I couldn’t maintain my 6:50 pace. Sucks because that was by far the best running shape I had ever been in my life and was on pace based on my training runs and races to run a 2:55-ish race.
+1
this was right on for me as well.
Runlots. Weekdays: 40-50 minutes in the AM. 80-90 minutes PM. 20 miles on Sunday. 80-90 mpw. Zero speedwork. Got me into low 2:40’s
In addition to the long run with MP work, I’m a big fan of the hour progression run as a fitness test.
Warm up the first mile and progress through the first 30 minutes in equal predetermined segments (e.g. 1/2 miles, 1 miles, 3 minutes, etc.- at each marker, speed up slightly, but equally). The progression should work so your at MP just before or at the 30 minute mark. Keep the progression going until an hour. Your back half will be faster than marathon pace and your front half slower, but the whole hour will average marathon pace.
I would do this every other week during a cycle, and as I gained fitness, the interval to increase pace would decrease.
FYI - this is pretty similar to a VO2 max test if you have ever done one, just longer.
I can see this workout punishing the ambitious.
In addition to the long run with MP work, I’m a big fan of the hour progression run as a fitness test.
Warm up the first mile and progress through the first 30 minutes in equal predetermined segments (e.g. 1/2 miles, 1 miles, 3 minutes, etc.- at each marker, speed up slightly, but equally). The progression should work so your at MP just before or at the 30 minute mark. Keep the progression going until an hour. Your back half will be faster than marathon pace and your front half slower, but the whole hour will average marathon pace.
I would do this every other week during a cycle, and as I gained fitness, the interval to increase pace would decrease.
FYI - this is pretty similar to a VO2 max test if you have ever done one, just longer.
I can see this workout punishing the ambitious.
Ha! It teaches you your limits for sure. If you are too ambitious you’ll blow at 40 minutes.
Thanks all. V helpful. My basic weekly plan looks like this:
Mon Easy 50-75 minutes peak
Tues Tempo 35-70 minutes peak (after w/u, split time into 3 periods building pace each period and ending at AT+5bpm)
Wed swim/bike
Thurs Fast Intervals building to 5 x 2 miles peak (around 6:20/m pace)
Fri off
Sat Easy 40-75 peak w. every other Sat including hill repeats building to 7 x 2 mins
Sun Long 1:15-3:00 peak (will aim for around 7:00/m pace)
Peak week would be about 65 miles. Will adjust somewhat based on your feedback above.
It’s pretty easy… you are close.
Your long runs are all negative split run, 1st half is at long run pace and the 2nd half is .05 sec/mile faster than your goal marathon pace (so 6:45/mile pace). Work up to 12 miles at this pace.
Do mile repeats on the track each week and do them at 10K race pace and work up to 6 mile repeats.
Log in at least 40 miles per week on average.
Do a half marathon race within 6 months from your marathon but not any closer than 4 weeks prior.
Surprised no one mentions fast over pace runs. We did 10 mile runs at 6:00/mile, faster than race pace, did my eventual first and only marathon at age 38 which was at 6:24 pace which felt fairly comfortable.
I ran a 2:54 last year and did quite a few of over pace runs mixed in with lots of miles at race pace. I did over pace runs about every other week starting at 6 miles and building to 10 at a 6:00 pace. I did race pace runs (6:30 - 6:40) of 6, 8, 10, 12, and 15 miles building up to the 15 about 2 weeks out from race day. The only caviot here is build slowly. I’ve been injured this year…I was building up some larger weeks in preparation for a Half Marathon PR attempt in May and upped my mileage too quickly and ended up with Plantar Faciitis which I’m still dealing with and just now starting to build miles in order to run Boston in the spring.
Here’s my training log from Houston 2010. I went from 3:09 in 2009 to 2:49 in 2010. I think the keys were 1) consistency, 2) long runs with marathon pace mixed in, 3) adequate sleep (often overlooked) and 4) consistency (again). I think it was the Pfitzinger 70mpw / 18 week plan that I followed, with some extra mileage mixed in.
Workouts on the right that are crossed out were either missed due to illness/conflicts or rescheduled as something else. And yes, I was a bit anal…
Workouts on the right that are crossed out were either missed due to illness/conflicts or rescheduled as something else. And yes, I was a bit anal…
Awesome, thanks for posting it. Gave me something to read in the bathroom. Believe me, that is a compliment.
Only benchmark workouts were a weekly 8 mile TM workout as fast as possible and a speed workout consisting of 400 repeats. I trained for 2 months so I had probably 8 x 8 mi fast over that time. Weekly milage was 45-55 with 2 60 mile weeks. Was my first open marathon and went a 2:58:14.
Good Luck!!!
I might be missing the point slightly and not really addressing the essence of your question (which is really i think how to get faster - period)…but which marathon did you set your existing PR at ? Is it considered a hard course ? An easy course v a difficult course (within the bounds of reasonableness) is good for ~10 minutes. Just a thought. And couple that with all the good advice you have already received you should be home and dry. (FWIW - i am running London, cool and flat next April specificially to try to break 2:49:49 - never going to happen at NYC.)