Small rider choosing first tri-bike: custom or production?

Dear all,
I am seeking to get my first tri-bike and don’t know much about bikes in general. Being a 5’1-2 I have been spending a lot of time finding a good frame fit. My inseam length isn’t that long: maybe around 26-29. My torsos aren’t long either. Guru already said that they are more than happy to custom build a bike for my size and measurements but of course we all know that could mean spending over $4000-5000 for my first bike (with Ti or carbon) - a direction I am yet to be sure about, considering that I am yet to have a triathlon experience. I have a used (but only with 500km on it) Cervelo Dual upgraded bike at 48 on sell at a very attractive price. I am wondering if it’d be a good fit. Any suggestion? Do i really have to spend at least $3000 for a bike that would fit me well without potential chronic problems or performance compromises in a long run? Your advice will be much appreciated!!

Alfred

My wife’s a bit under 5’2" and rides a 48 soloist but in a road setup. It’s an adaptable bike but you couldn’t really call it a full tribike.

You should have a better idea of your measurements than a 3" range for your inseam. The common suggestion is to get fitted first and the measurements from that will dictate what bikes will fit you. You shouldn’t have to spend $3000…

It’s those helpful advice and comments I am looking for!! Thanks!! I think 27 would be a moderate measurement of my inseam length. And again I should get ‘fitted’ to get a better idea about frame size.

it’s encouraging to know that people of my build are getting along with Cervelos in size 48. The deal I am looking at comes with a very good package, and if it would fit me well without long term problems I certainly would love to have it. Having been a marathoner, however, I realise that getting gears that fit would prevent a great deal of problems in a long run. is that injury-paranoia? Anyway my two questions are:

  1. would a Cervelo 48 Dual fit me well for triathlon? If it does i would prefer it over an expensive Guru for my first bike.
  2. what are the options out there for small riders?
  3. would a Guru bike be the best solution if the price difference between a production bike and a custom bike is within $1000?

Many thanks.

Alfred

One of my clients is 5’0" with an inch shorter inseam than you. We squeezed her on to a 48 dual (had to cut the seat tube on the frame to get the saddle low enough). It fits her very well but took a lot of effort on my part to make it really suit her so find someone who can help you sort out all the details with bars and stem and aerobars. I could put up an explanation of the process if you like. You should fit the 48 more easily than her.

There are lots of custom options apart from Guru

Best thing would be to see a local fitter and have them recommend bikes for you

Alfred,

At your size, I think you have the right idea to go custom, and you probably should consider 650 wheels. Of course I’m no expert, but a friend with similar measurements ultimately went custom and never looked back.

As for brands, you might want to look at the Serotta CXII. It’s a low key not-to-sexy steel frame, but you can have it fully customized, the quality is first rate, and it’s relatively inexpensive (well under $2K for the frame, I think). I know/have heard of at least a few people who are very happy with theirs. Many people here on this board aren’t too excited with the idea of a tri-bike from Serotta, but that’s another story. Just make sure you go to a reputable fitter with solid tri-bike experience. Good luck and have fun!

Ken

this reminds us of that little known fact, we have a website that this month deals with this specific question in depth: tri bikes for short people
.

One of my clients is 5’0" with an inch shorter inseam than you. We squeezed her on to a 48 dual (had to cut the seat tube on the frame to get the saddle low enough). It fits her very well but took a lot of effort on my part to make it really suit her so find someone who can help you sort out all the details with bars and stem and aerobars. I could put up an explanation of the process if you like. You should fit the 48 more easily than her.

There are lots of custom options apart from Guru

Best thing would be to see a local fitter and have them recommend bikes for you

There are so many good advice here! Thank you! I am particularly interested in knowing how well the Dual ‘fits’ for the petite client. Could Cyclenutnz please give me a better idea of what you mean by ‘fitting’: does the bike fit her (with all the angles) in training and racing positions? See I have no idea and will need professional advice like yours to straight me out. I will greatly appreciate your counsel on your custom process!

Alfred

how much riding and racing have you done?
if you’re just getting into tris - esp. from a running background - you should set up a total budget NOW. before you know it you’ll be shelling out for a wetsuit, a power meter, new shoes and pedals, a HRM, this and that… oh yeah, and a new bike. that’s the big one, but far from the only one. people debate each one of these things, but basically, there’s a ton of things that tri folks spend money on. that is what it is, and it’s ok, i guess, if you’re racing all the time over a period of several/many years.

the problem comes if you get into training for tris, buy all this gear, and then decide you don’t like it. then you’re out a bunch of bucks.

so, no, you don’t need to shell out that kind of cash for a new bike. the dual is a good choice if you can fit it. but if you’re just getting into this stuff, i’d consider getting a decent road bike this year (or racing on your road bike if you have one already). tri bikes are fast, but they’re not for everybody, and when you’re starting out they can be kind of scary riding if there’s traffic around. Not for everybody, mind you, but for some people. road bikes are a lot more versatile, IMHO.

then when you have a good feel for whether or not you like the sport, think about shelling out the big bucks for the bike of your dreams.

-charles

“Best thing would be to see a local fitter and have them recommend bikes for you”

it is exceptionally unlikely that a local fitter is going to have the info on tri bikes for somebody of this stature. i’m not sure what “5’1-2” is, but it sems to me it’s either 60.5" or 61.5" and for a TRI bike the issues switch from a preoccupation with angles to a hard look at the length and height limits constraining what’s achievable.

in other words, if jonas colting (6’3") has a 76 degree frame and needs an 80 degree position, he’s screwed. but if this person has that sort of thing going on, just moving the saddle fore and aft on the rails is going to get you much more angular adjustability.

otoh, the problems of, “can he get low enough,” and “can he get the bike short enough in the cockpit” become real issues as you approach 5’ in stature. there are concrete ways to measure this, and in particular the shortness or lowness thing is easy to calculate. what you want to know is, what is the distance on the Y axis (the vertical distance) between the bottom bracket and the head tube top? here are some examples of this measure on the most popular tri bikes:

Kestrel: 43.7cm
QR’s Kilo/TQ: 45.0cm
Calfee: 45.7cm
Cervelo: 46.1cm
Elite: 46.25cm
Felt: 46.5cm

by the way, the shortest distance i’ve seen on a 700c tri bike in its smallest size is 49.4cm, and this illustrates why 650c is mandatory on these bikes.

the other issue, which the local fitter may or may not be familiar with, is the difference between aero bars, specifically the distance in elevation between the armrest top and the pursuit bar. if getting the tri bike low enough in front is an issue (and it almost always is with somebody shorter than 5’4") then it’s not just the frame that’s critical, it’s the aero bar. for example, for somebody 5 feet tall, you probably not only need the kestrel’s “lowness,” you need an aerobar different than the high profile profile that’s spec’d on that bike. so the airfoil pro frame with, say, a hed 1pc, or vision, or blackwell, or oval, is probably the ticket if lowness is the big issue to be solved.

Like a lawyer will always quote “it depends” There are several small bikes out there to get you started. By going to a shop that you trust and can get you set up you should be able to get set up easily. Trek for example starts at $2000.00 for a tri bike that would work for you.
I also want to let you know that Guru makes more than just Ti and Carbon bikes. You can very easily get into one for less than $3000.00 CDN.

I am about your size, 5’1’', with an inseam of 27 or 28 inches.
I have been riding a Cervelo P2SL for the last year, and I love it. It seems to fit me very well, and handles great. I previously had a road bike with 700c wheels, and having the 650c wheels is a real big improvement.

Since you are new to the sport, I would consider the Dual, as it is a less expensive option, that gives great value for the money.

Thanks so very much for your tremedously helpful (and quick) responses!

I got the measurements here:

inseam = 68 cm
Toros = 56-7 cm
overall arm = 48 cm
upper arm = 29 cm
lower arm = 30

(http://endurosport.com/experienceEndurosport/bikefitting/measurements.asp)

My top choice is a used cervelo dual 48. It seems it would fit me well. What are the opinions here in light of the measurements?

Alfred

You can get a negative drop stem or Look Ergostem and get pretty well as much drop on the front end as you want (until you hit the tire). However, you will be limited in how much of a combination of length+drop you can achieve…really long or really short combinations are not possible.

I’m concerned about stability for these small frames. My wife had a small Cannondale (was either 48 or 46) and several people who rode it had problems going straight and feeling stable (although they were all beginners). I would consider, particularly for a tri-bike, that the front end should be designed for a huge amount of trail. You have a short wheelbase, smaller, lighter wheels, and probably a fairly steep geometry working against stability already. For beginners on aerobars, stability is a lot more important than cornering performance.

If it were me, I’d go full custom. Find a builder who can talk intelligently about the issues discussed by Slowman and in this thread. You can probably get a basic steel frame for under $2000. A bike that fits and is designed around your needs is going to give you a lot of enjoyment and success. With such a small frame it will automatically be stiff and light.

My wife is 5’2" and has an inseam of 27". Her 46 cm Cannondale 2000 (with a 47 cm top tube and 650 wheels) fits her perfectly.

I understand that you’re looking at tri bikes - but I know a girl (<5 ft) who raced successfully for a few years on her cannondale 650 road bike and always podiumed. Only last year did she get a custom Guru… Argon18 has some smaller bikes (R2/D2?) … but of course they’re road bikes…

“You can get a negative drop stem or Look Ergostem and get pretty well as much drop on the front end as you want”

if the solution to ill-fitting bikes is to fix it with a look ergostem, then, yes, you can have your stem do mobius flips and whatnot and we’re back to needing only two or three sizes for everybody. when you start with the idea that a custom guru – probably at a cost north of $5k – is the intended option, then i would hope that a production or custom bike that fits properly ought to be the reasonable expectation.

the negative drop stems will not work. i’ve explained before on the forum why this is. the custom also may not work, because every custom builder has a minimum head tube height he can build his bikes down to. production bikes often can offer a smaller functional head tube. the kestrel airfoil is the perfect case in point, with 76mm of integrated head tube. yes, perhaps a custom maker might claim he can build this, but at what cost? the head tubes on these production carbon bikes are extremely beefy, and these top and down tube areas just behind the head tube is the weakest part of the frame.

i was talking to a gal, right at 5 feet tall, at the OC tri club meeting a coupla weeks ago. we talked a year ago, she was contemplating (and was eventually) sold a custom seven or serotta, i don’t remember which. i counseled her back then to get a production 650c tri bike (any of the usual suspects), and she’s now, a year later, unsatisfied and is probably going to get an airfoil.

the airfoil is my idea of the best production tri bike for anyone in this under-5’ to 5’3" range. since just yesterday i was accused of taking the positions i do because i’m getting paid to do it, may i take this opportunity to say that i’ve never received a nickel from kestrel and don’t see that happening in the future (but i’m always open to it. preston, are you out there?).

what any person contemplating this needs to do is find out what his fit coordinates are. really, anybody of any height ought to do this. discover your fit coordinates, irrespective of any bike or frame that you might contemplate. your fit coordinates – your points in space – are your bible. they follow you around from bike to bike, from year to year. they are yours, and remain yours irrespective of brand. it’s like your shoe size, it’s yours, and if nike offers sizes 9, 11, and 13 and you’re a size 10 then i’m sorry, no amount of swoosh appeal is going to make that nike fit.

once you’ve found your fit coordinates, THEN you find which bikes match YOUR coordinates. best not to fall in love with a headbadge until you’ve prioritized this process correctly.

what any person contemplating this needs to do is find out what his fit coordinates are. really, anybody of any height ought to do this. discover your fit coordinates, irrespective of any bike or frame that you might contemplate. your fit coordinates – your points in space – are your bible. they follow you around from bike to bike, from year to year. they are yours, and remain yours irrespective of brand. it’s like your shoe size, it’s yours, and if nike offers sizes 9, 11, and 13 and you’re a size 10 then i’m sorry, no amount of swoosh appeal is going to make that nike fit.

once you’ve found your fit coordinates, THEN you find which bikes match YOUR coordinates. best not to fall in love with a headbadge until you’ve prioritized this process correctly.

Serious question - what percentage of people do you think actually do this? I’m thinking the number is pretty damn low for a first tri bike purchase. It probably goes up a bit when people realise they made a mistake and are thinking about what to get next.

“Serious question - what percentage of people do you think actually do this?”

i’m less interested in today’s answer to your question than i am in soldiering on until the answer is close to 100%. no, we’re not near that. yes, i think we’ll get there. 15 or 18 years ago i was still battling with, “wetsuits only make the slowest swimmers faster, i’m a good swimmer, so i’ll go faster without a wetsuit.” so i have a framework that allows me to be patient.

But it’s going to take more than 15-18 years for evolution (if you believe in it) to change the way people think from “that’s a pretty bike and it’s on sale” to something involving less instant gratification but more long term gain…

Perhaps you should put in the terms and conditions for signing up to ST :slight_smile:

Your measurements are very close to mine except my torso is 2 cm longer and my upper arms are a little shorter

I ride a 48 cm Felt and fit very well on it. Maybe with your longer upper arms you may not be able to get as low as you want but it may be an option to throw out to your fitter.

jaretj