Bikes to consider:
-David at Elite has a couple of XS tri bikes in stock.
-The Kestrel Air Foil
-Planet X is coming out with XXS tri bikes, awesome deals
Thanks so much for all the wonderful counsels and reference. May I ask for more information on those suggestions of bikes? On the other hand, with the sharings of small-bike owners, I am feeling very positive about the Dual 48. I am looking at airfoil as well whose geometry looks very attractive indeed! But the price is a little too close to a Guru carbon which I would probably prefer if I am to spend that much money. Does anyone have any airfoil 47 connections (in Canada, e.g.)? I like cannondale ironman but the smallest size is 48. …
Comments about fitting on a 48 Cervelo are still much desired and needed!!
Thank you!!
Alfred
“Best thing would be to see a local fitter and have them recommend bikes for you”
it is exceptionally unlikely that a local fitter is going to have the info on tri bikes for somebody of this stature. i’m not sure what “5’1-2” is, but it sems to me it’s either 60.5" or 61.5" and for a TRI bike the issues switch from a preoccupation with angles to a hard look at the length and height limits constraining what’s achievable.
I meant “a local fitter who is experienced in tri fitting, cares about tri bikes, has experience in fitting people at both ends of the spectrum and has a desire to make sure that the client is correctly set up” - obviously this is a rare thing even among “qualified fitters”
The size constraints make fitting much more interesting - bit of a challenge to overcome. Especially in a country where the range of tri bikes is very limited and the ones we do get are further limited by stores with no understanding of tri.
I saw someone here selling a 48cm p3 because it was too big but the post was in the aft position. I just cringed.
“the negative drop stems will not work. i’ve explained before on the forum why this is. the custom also may not work, because every custom builder has a minimum head tube height he can build his bikes down to”
Sorry, I try to read all of your posts but I must have missed that one.
I do not see any mechanical difference between having a head tube of say 10cm with a stem drop of 3cm and having a head tube of 7cm with a flat stem. Every moment and angle will come out the same if you make some reasonable assumptions about the forces in play relative to the strength of the arms. If you are worried about future adjustability by flipping the stem or removing spacers, I don’t think this is an issue with an ergo stem. Top tube height? Can you explain?
My best advice is to find a local dealer who has more than 2 of the brand bikes Dan mentions. Get fitted and go with the cheapest version of the one that fit. That will be all of the bike you ever need. If you later decide that you want something better then buy an upscale model or go custom. You will have have a spare bike for rain, trainer, repairs, etc and you will have some experience to know what you want in a high dollar bike.
Here is an example of a 48 Dual set up for a 5’0" person.
Points to note - the flippable head creates issues with getting the saddle low enough. Had to cut off the top of the seat tube in order to get clearance for the fixing bolt (expected this prior to ordering the bike). Have to make sure that saddle used has a low rail-top height. Saddle height is 58cm
Had to get a low stack headset cap instead of the 20mm one.
Used Oval (aka tektro RX4.1) levers as they allow reach adjustment for small hands.
Converted bike to Campag as that is what her road bike has (650C Serotta)
Used standard 53-39 chainrings as that has the same effect as using a compact on 700c. will convert to 50-36 at a later data for super compact gearing. SLK cranks were only non shimano 165mm we could get hold of.
Plan to change to Campag UT cranks and cut down to 145mm to narrow Q-factor (feet are far too wide currently) and get the saddle a bit further off the ground thereby increasing drop, not that drop is too much of a problem (see below)
Race wheels are white industries hubs on velocity 30mm rims.
And here we have the bars: 230mm vision clip on. Rests are on narrowest setting and have had excess removed. Spacers under the pads were cut from 12.5mm to 4.5mm. Stem is 50mm.
Bars are Deda 4Girls 36 c-c cutoff and turned over. Chopped up the removed bits to create flat section for hands to rest on (you used to be able to buy inserts to do this but I don’t know if you can anymore). It made the horns appear quite thick but gives more comfort and hasn’t been an issue for gripping them.
Computer mount is a piece of cutoff carbon steerer, shaped carefully so doesn’t need any attachment mechanism.
And here is the rider, poor lighting in this shot. Turns out that not much (3or 4cm) saddle-bar drop was needed for a tidy position.
“I do not see any mechanical difference between having a head tube of say 10cm with a stem drop of 3cm and having a head tube of 7cm with a flat stem.”
you haven’t done the math on this, have you? a “flat” stem is already minus 17 degrees. figure out your right triangle geometry on what angle you need between the long arm and the hypotenuse to get 3cm short arm out of a 10cm long arm. and then add that angle to 17. that’s the negative angle you’re looking for. i would have to get out my trig tables and do the math, but i’m pretty sure that stem is not in production.
and if it were, you’d need a tall major axis on the stem extension, which means the clamp fixed over the steerer will be about 5cm to 7cm, instead of the normal 3.5cm to 4cm (this is the case with the minus 25 degree profile H2O), and this starts you up taller to begin with, before you can endeavor to get lower.
and then of course you assume you can do this with a 10cm stem, and on a bike this small you’re probably looking at a 6cm or 7cm, maybe an 8cm, because it’s hard to get these bikes short enough to begin with.
but, other than all that, you’re right, you could do it with a negative rise stem 
That is an AMAZING set-up!! Thanks for sharing it!! What I find reassuring is that it seems that her feet would be able to touch the ground and that the bike doesn’t look big on her at all. It fit her very well: When you said ‘fit’ you meant ‘fit’!! This bike also tells a story of a dealer going the distance to help his client. That’s fantastic stuff! Thanks!!
The used Dual (a DuraAce, silver, with 500km on it only) I am looking at comes with a carbon seatpost, Truvativ crank with DuraAce chain rings along with Profile T2 bars, easton wheels and Vision bars. What do you think of these gears around $1500 CAD?
Further comments on fitting on a 48 Cervelo are more than welcome! Many thanks!
A
you haven’t done the math on this, have you? a “flat” stem is already minus 17 degrees. figure out your right triangle geometry on what angle you need between the long arm and the hypotenuse to get 3cm short arm out of a 10cm long arm. and then add that angle to 17. that’s the negative angle you’re looking for. i would have to get out my trig tables and do the math, but i’m pretty sure that stem is not in production.
and if it were, you’d need a tall major axis on the stem extension, which means the clamp fixed over the steerer will be about 5cm to 7cm, instead of the normal 3.5cm to 4cm (this is the case with the minus 25 degree profile H2O), and this starts you up taller to begin with, before you can endeavor to get lower.
Would use 110 stem to get the same reach, and -38deg angle to get 40mm of drop over the -17 which is at least what you’d need for 30mm actual drop for the reason you outlined with the clamp and because you would need a spacer to stop it from hitting the headtube.
When you said ‘fit’ you meant ‘fit’!! This bike also tells a story of a dealer going the distance to help his client. That’s fantastic stuff! Thanks!!
The used Dual (a DuraAce, silver, with 500km on it only) I am looking at comes with a carbon seatpost, Truvativ crank with DuraAce chain rings along with Profile T2 bars, easton wheels and Vision bars. What do you think of these gears around $1500 CAD?
I’m not a dealer, none of the ones around here would bother to make a bike fit properly. I’m pretty proud of that how that project turned out.
That dual sounds like a pretty good deal. I don’t like the shape of the T2 aerobars personally but they do allow you to put the pads further behind the bar which can help with reach issues.
“-38deg angle”
i don’t actually know where you would get one of those. but if you could find one, you’d have to figure out not only how to get it past the head tube, but the miter would be so severe the “center” of the extension would be a good way up the quill, versus a standard stem. this is why i said that the stem clamp that goes over the quill would have to be 6cm or so long, maybe longer. look at a profile H2O, and it’s only -25 degrees. the stem clamp is 5cm tall. imagine a -40 stem. you’d start your downward trek so high up you’d need 7cm or 8cm just to get back to the elevation you’d have with a 7-shape stem.
of course, you could always just get a frame that is built to accomodate your position (just a thought).
With the comments and wisdoms gathered here I am inclining to go with the Cervelo Dual 48. I would still appreciate comments on fitting and experiences from small riders of my stature. Many thanks!!
A
of course, you could always just get a frame that is built to accomodate your position (just a thought).
You’re no fun. Surely we should buy bikes based on what we think is the best rather than any rational basis. Where’s the challenge if you don’t have to custom make a ski slope stem.
“You’re no fun.”
yeah, you’re right. i repent. you’ll go fastest on the bike ridden by your favorite pro. get that one.
As a newbie I really appreciate the rational-technical and the personal-technical. My sport so far has been the marathon where when gears are equal in quality/functionality one’s decision often comes down to personal preference or sentimental association with a particular marathoner (for me it’s Paula Radcliffe). But that doesn’t mean that I buy Nike shoes, especially when I know it’s not the best for the distance. I do use Paula’s heart-monitor watch just to cheer myself up when I look at it in the marathon. Who knows? Perhaps the heart and the mind both have a place.
Guru’s service is exceptional. I prefer the personal approach when it comes to endurance sport gears both for psychology and physiology. It reminds of me the experience of getting ‘the’ engagement ring, only this time I would be the owner of the object of my spending!
More comments concerning fitting with reference to a cervelo 48 among other ‘small’ tri-bikes are welcome!
Do small riders have disadvantages or limitations in this sport because of their sizes? I know in marathon size doesn’t matter because ultimately it’s about endurance and execution. (and luck)
Please share your experience of riding a cervelo 48 if you are around my size.
I also appreciate about the comment concerning having a budget early in the sport. I am taking it to heart!! There would always be nicer bikes and wonderful reasons to have them. But budget is still an issue to me. Thanks for the important reminder!
I have been looking at a few small bike models. The difference in sizing isn’t that huge: 1-3 cm for standover height and almost no difference for the top tube. Then not every spec includes the measurement on ‘reach’. I am looking at Orebra Aletta XS which seems very nice for $2000 USD! The spec, however, except for standover height doesn’t seem to be much different from a Cervelo Dual 48’s, does it? Anyways $2000 + shipping and Canadian duties seems to add up quickly and would go a bit over my ‘budget’. The difference can probably pay for my wetsuit and helmet among other expenses I would soon learn about. What do you think?
Thanks very much!
A
doesn’t richey make a 45 degree adjustable with a very shallow clamp height?
38 may not be that far off after all…
“doesn’t richey make a 45 degree adjustable with a very shallow clamp height?”
as previously stated, you can get there with a look ergostem. the idea is to get yourself a well made frame – one that doesn’t have it’s steer column cap poking you in the eye, and a stem that weighs a half a pound. well, that was my idea. apparently not a very popular one it seems.
My apologies, I didn’t realize the ergostem reference was acknowledged in my read…
I was just posting with regard to the position, not with the weight or safety issues associated with achieving that position…
Your point is very well taken, sir…
Jeff
Hi everybody:
Is there any more sharing of a small rider on a 48 cervelo?
A
Sorry, Dan, I’m not able to follow all of the dimmensions you are trying to relay here. I can do the trig if you like, but since we haven’t selected a targeted stem length, only a stem drop, we don’t really have enough dimensions. If I assume a 10cm stem length, just for the sake of arguement, then the -17 degree “flat” stem (I guess you are assuming a 17 degree head tube angle, which I would think would increase for a smaller bike in order to create trail) for a 7cm head tube would now need to be roughly -30 degrees (and about 11.5 cm in length) to get to the same geometry in a 10cm head tube. I’ll bet that is available off the shelf. Now maybe 10cm is longer than you would assume for a small bike and as you go shorter you would get into stems no longer available, but you can go custom on a stem if you want too, or as I say a Look stem.
This is a tiring arguement. Your point, that it is better to get a bike that fits than to make it fit with some sort of odd stem, is valid. If I were shopping for such a bike I’d consider both bikes that fit with normal stems and bikes that can be made to fit…there are a lot of criteria to consider besides the weight of the stem.