That certainly doesn’t excuse them. Frankly, I’d rather have a senator/congressman/president who is willing to buck conventional politics to do what he thinks is right, not what the uninformed electorate thinks they want.
It all goes back to perception and image. I’d have to say that the “truth” about the situation in Iraq lies somewhere near the middle between what the press shows us on TV and what the President says. IMHO, either extreme is not an accurate picture.
I’m not trying to justify their cowardice, merely explain it.
As for the three branches, given that the Judicial branch likes to go hunting with Dick Cheney, I think it’s all up to the legislative. At least the Dems seem to have gotten their blood up in the last few months.
You’ll see them get a little more feisty as the war continues to falter, the Plame indictments come down from Fitzgerald, and the Abu Ghraib scandal continues to climb higher.
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The whole thing was a sham put on by the congress that is full of spineless cowards who did have the guts to run the investigation themselves and run the possibility of pissing people off. Actually the commission was impanelled(sp?) by the President.
Q There’s also al Qaeda in the United States. That does not mean the United States is cooperating with those members of al Qaeda. Just by the presence of someone does not mean there’s a cooperation.
that’s pretty much the exact analogy i was thinking. i don’t doubt that al qaeda had people in iraq during saddam’s time, i just haven’t seen any signs of actual cooperation in any of the reports on the subject.
Vitus:
These are busy Senators. They couldn’t be bothered to go to the OEB (or, wherever the backup docs were being kept) and read the “intelligence” data. It was only a war resolution, so jumping to conclusions was perfectly fine. 
For voting yes on the war resolution, Kerry deserves a no vote this November, but, I’m going to put a very large clothespin on my nose and go to my precinct praying I can actually pull the lever for that lazy numbskull.
If Bush is re-elected I may spend my retirement years in Spain… It’s cheaper anyway.
-Robert
Even if there is no link between Al Qaeda and Iraq, there is a well known link between Iraq and other terrorist organizations in the middle east. Iraq is know for sending checks to the families of suicide bombers in Israel. As the King of Jordan said on TV just last night or so, until the Palestinian issues are resolved, there will be hatred of the US in the middle east, which leads to fertile ground for Al Qaeda. Getting rid of Saddam is a way of dealing with 9/11 through that means. There are others funding these terrorists as well, and Saudi Arabia among others needs to deal with them. I wish they would just draw a boundry and make a Palestinian state, but neither side seems willing to make a deal. To the middle east, there is no difference between US sending dollars to Israel and Iraq sending dollars to Palestinians, and tell you the truth, I understand that completely.
And sure, North Korea may be a bigger threat in terms of nuclear capabilities, but they are much harder to deal with militarily. If you think we have a mess in Iraq, it is NOTHING compared to what the Korean peninsula would look like after an attack on NK. Don’t call Bush an idiot for dealing with Iraq over North Korea and then complain that Iraq is a big mess…at least he had the intelligence to pick the easier battle (with more to gain also). The other side of this is, while North Korea may export technogies to terrorists, they are still mostly middle eastern terrorist using them. I don’t recall any Korean terrorists (even in Korea). Containing NK and leaving it to the Koreans and Chinease is the right strategy.
I hate to keep responding to my own post, but I haven’t seen a single defense of Rumsfeld for apparently ordering a violation of the Geneva Convention. Where’s Art when you need him?
yeah I got it but what the hell are we doing over there in the first place…explain that me oh mr. brilliant person…and don’t forget we are all lied to and misinformed so who among us really knows the real answers anyway? please enlighten me…
jonathan<<
If you can’t explain why we are there then how can you be against it? Really though I think our media is good at getting a camera on what is happening but terrible at putting any of their stories in context.
So, why we are there? Because there is a fascist movement primarily in the Middle East that is also tied to religion. This movement believes that all non-believers are infidels and deserve to be killed. They believe that God approves and condones killing of innocents in order to make a more pure Muslim society. Stalin did the same to create a more pure socialist society, as did Hitler to make a more pure German society etc. They do not believe there can be coexistence between themselves and non-believers. If you look at the execution and beheading of Berg, and read the full statement that they made (below), this becomes clear. The fully translated statement is a pretty standard explanation of their decision making process. BTW how much of this statement made it on our nightly news, or in the NY Times?
The Al Tawhid and Jihad Group claims responsibility for the assassination operation of the unbeliever, Ezzedin Salim.
A statement to the nation regarding the assassination operation against the traitor and enemy agent Ezzedin Salim
In the name of Allah Most Gracious Most Merciful
Announcement number 6
The praise of Allah saying: {then you fight the leaders of the unbeliever, you owe no allegiance to them, they are finished}…
Prayers and greetings to the messenger, the imam, the Best of All Creation, and to his family and his friends, the examples of the Islamic militants…
The militants from the Battalion of Death have returned, and they planned the painful attack on the leader of Allah’s enemies, sending them an important message: Their practices are destroying our land, and the occupation of our sanctuaries, and their criminal acts against our families in Iraq, killing the children, and the women, and the sheikhs, and violating our honor, and destroying our homes and our forests and planning the country under a blockade (siege), will not pass without retaliation in kind, and even surpassing your acts, God willing, as the militants believing, having promised Allah to support the religion, and demonstration to the nation their frustration on the souls, and rising from the humiliation with this attack.
Another attacking lion from the Al Tawhid and Jihad Group selected a rotten head from those who betrayed Allah and his messenger, from the ones who sold their religion and their world to their American masters, and who joined against you. To the Muslims, in this battle your lion was Abu Salama Al Hejazi, from the land of the sanctuaries (Saudi Arabia), which is still producing one lion after another. Allah provided that this dear brother killed the president the current Council of the Apostates, Ezzedin Salim, along with his companions.
He killed and injured many of them, praise be to God.
Then to those who wallow in the mud, working for the ruling council; you must learn your lesson now, or the militants swords will defeat you, one after another, and Allah does not break his promise. Your acts are disgraceful in Allah’s eyes and your words are disappointing; but you will hear of the great magnificence.
This operation encourages Muslims that the militants are everywhere: with their family in Iraq consolidating power, and persisting on the way of jihad, and as a group united, determined to remove the humiliation from their resolute nation, and that they alone have the means, and the ability for the surprise attacks, attacking the vital elements in the appropriate time and place.
We are confirming that these attacks will continue God willing, Glorified and Exalted be He, who knows the Crusaders are against the whole world of Islam and the Muslims, and will return in failure, and will not succeed, and will not bear fruit, not the fruit which the Jews and the Crusaders desire. They are in a war between believers and unbelievers, between trust and falsehood, between justice and injustice, and Allah supports the religion and his fighting slaves.
And so that the Muslims know that what he offered to them is in the results of their operations, and what they paid with their blood, and what they spent from their money and their time; this is sufficient proof of the ability of this nation to fight and withstand and gain victory, with Allah’s blessings.
And he will not be forgotten by us on this blessed occasion, when we mention the seriousness of the defeat as America and its allies prepare against Iraq Muslims, and they should rush to the support of their brothers with all that they possess, and that they do not allow the American occupiers to gain a foothold on their lands, and that they resist them with various means and the ways until he feels that he is on the land and under the sky and between nations where all antagonize and hate them.
And to Allah be the honour, and to his messenger and to the militants …
The military wing of the Al Tawhid and Jihad Group
Two 28 Rabi I, the, 1425
17 / 5 / 2004 AD
Understanding that there is no negotiation with the terrorists is crucial to understanding the problem. We realized on 9-11 that they were willing and able to carry out eradicating infidels (all of us non-believers) in our country. That’s how we got the war on terror, approved by the House and the Senate.
I’m not looking to change your mind, just try to explain why we are there. I guess the question is do you believe that the terrorists want to continue to work throughout the world and eradicate infidels/non-believers, or do you think that they really don’t pose much of a threat, and will leave us alone if we leave them alone? After reading the statement, and seeing that Berg kid get his head cut off I kind of think they are pretty serious about the infidel thing. All the other stuff is just political nonsense.
To be honest, I think those with the most to lose (provided us infidels don’t get nuked), are the Arabs themselves. Just as Germany has had to grapple with the legacy of Nazism, and Christianity still suffers because of medieval persecutions of non-Christians, so too, Islam, and Arabs will have to struggle for generations to shed their identification with terrorism and murdering of innocents. They just haven’t realized it yet.
Article discusses why the VP thinks there is a terrorist connection:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/238dkpee.asp
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I understand your points…what leaves me shaking my head in dismay every time are the potential we, as human beings have, and our capacity to love and respect one another and live in harmony could be there. But, we just don’t seem to want to really use our brains and all too often seem to lean toward violence, and hatred twisting truth, religious beliefs, and other ideals to drive the hatred, anger and violence. Not exactly on point but just something I have noticed and can’t help reacting to and feeling very very sad at what human beings have or seem to be becoming…
Iraq is just one of the many arenas around the globe that things like this seem to be happening.
thanks
That’s very old news and not helpful for us or Cheney! Cheney is now (and has been) trying to make the positive case, not the neutral one.
I prefer to draw conclusions from evidence, not speculation.
-Robert
So, why we are there? Because there is a fascist movement primarily in the Middle East that is also tied to religion.
Did you happen to notice that Iraq, under Saddam Hussein, was a secular country, and that it is only now, after we introduced the current chaos, that the Islamic extremists are running rampant in Iraq?
Did you happen to notice that Iraq, under Saddam Hussein, was a secular country
Yeah, that whole secular thing isn’t always as cool as it’s cracked up to be, is it?
Yeah, that whole secular thing isn’t always as cool as it’s cracked up to be, is it? "
So anyone who wants a secular goverment is all for rape and mass killings?
No, Tibbs, that’s why I said "isn’t always. . ."
But it’s a good counterpoint to the idea that secularism is always and forever superior to religion as a basis for government, isn’t it?
…what leaves me shaking my head…<<
I agree. It amazes me that we are capable of sometimes creating such beauty for ourselves, and yet also such utter misery for ourselves.
“the 9/11 Commission concluded yesterday that there was no link between Al Qaeda and Irak, and no link between 9/11 and Irak.”
“Your” Senate voted and gave the authorization for war. Senate authorized the war…it’s not Bush’s war…
PRESIDENTIAL DETERMINATION- In connection with the exercise of the authority granted in subsection (a) to use force the President shall, prior to such exercise or as soon thereafter as may be feasible, but no later than 48 hours after exercising such authority, make available to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate his determination that–reliance by the United States on further diplomatic or other peaceful means alone either (A) will not adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq or (B) is not likely to lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq; and
(2) acting pursuant to this resolution is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorists attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001. It’s act
“9/11 was never a reason we invaded.”
So why, when the world was supporting the US in its fight against terrorism and Al Queda, did Bush decide to leave the job half done in Afghanistan and move onto Iraq?
Bin Laden is still not captured or killed. When did Bush decide he was more interested in Saddam than Bin Laden?
Better to fight one battle properly than two battles halfheartedly. And I don’t mean the troops - they did their job to the best of their abilities.
Here’s one way Bush is going to get the oil:
President George W. Bush signed Executive Order 13303, which appears to give immunity from any judicial process to every entity with direct or indirect interests in Iraqi petroleum and related products. “The threat of attachment or judicial process against the Development Fund for Iraq, Iraqi petroleum and petroleum products, and interests therein … constitutes an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States,” reads the executive order. It continues, “… any … judicial process is prohibited, and shall be deemed null and void.”