Ha I did learn that the upcoming Abu Dhabi race apparently wont be on the F1 track. The very early editions weren’t on the track, then they moved onto the F1 track for 5-7 years. Alan Webb raced this event when it wasn’t on the track back in the day.
Completely agree. As I said in my post, if the guys do not want to leave it all for a 10k run with Yee, Wilde and Blummenfelt you have to push the pace from the start. I have no idea the swim splits of Luis compared to Varga but I do see Jonny Brownlee in his feet very often, as he did in the old days with Varga and his brother; yet Matt Hauser is an uber swimmer, same as Bergere and Conninx so I think they really can gap Yee and Wilde and make a front group in the bike with the french, Hauser, Jonny B, Devay and some others. You don´t want to run mano a mano with Yee and Wilde. Blum and Iden are other story. They can come up after this winter being at the front group (Blum more likely than Iden)
I have not seen the Paris bike course, but I expected to be a bit harder than Tokyo. Athens 2004 was awesome, Rio 2016 was OK too.
By the way, for people who do not know Sanchez, 3rd in Bermuda, he was U23 world champ in 2019, so it is not that he is coming from nowhere. Mola is not at his best but Alarza maybe will come back to racing but I think he will go into middle distance directly…he is becoming a policeman
But it still comes back to the course pretty much dictating how the 2 groups will behave in these races. The “will” to stay away doesn’t change in the front group, but if there is no “teeth” to the course, then it pretty much will always cause a 30+ man T2 run race. That’s the unfortunate part of having races like Bermuda and then going back to 2-3 “meh” courses, it’s like we get a bite at the apple, and then have it taken away.
I have no idea where the actual event will take play in Paris, but more times than not they like to “highlight” certain urban monuments. Rio had the Coco Cabana beach (spelling), London did the all the tourist highlights. I believe Sydney rode by the opera house. Tokyo was ridden through make shift parking lots and local roads, but I dont think Tokyo has any world renowned tourist spots like London or Paris does, etc.
But it still comes back to the course pretty much dictating how the 2 groups will behave in these races. The “will” to stay away doesn’t change in the front group, but if there is no “teeth” to the course, then it pretty much will always cause a 30+ man T2 run race. That’s the unfortunate part of having races like Bermuda and then going back to 2-3 “meh” courses, it’s like we get a bite at the apple, and then have it taken away.
I have no idea where the actual event will take play in Paris, but more times than not they like to “highlight” certain urban monuments. Rio had the Coco Cabana beach (spelling), London did the all the tourist highlights. I believe Sydney rode by the opera house. Tokyo was ridden through make shift parking lots and local roads, but I dont think Tokyo has any world renowned tourist spots like London or Paris does, etc.
Agree with this, Luis hasn’t just changed the game (he doesn’t swim as fast as Varga or bike anywhere near as good as Ali) Luis has always been a front pack swimmer, but the swim is slower now and he knows he has to push the pace to stand any chance, he’s coming off a run injury, so im sure his swim as good as its ever been. Bermuda and Leeds will always throw up unexpected career best performances and favourites will have bad days.
Will they not try and use the TDF route for Paris?
In other news congratulations to GTB who received a Member Of The British Empire award today and a belated one for Jonny Brownlee who got his last month. (Really big honour from the Royal family)
Sanchez had a heck of a run in Karlovy Vary as well. 4th place might not catch too many peoples attention, but he did it after closing a big gap after the swim, on one of the hardest courses out there.
He is clearly a strong bike/runner.
Looking forward to seeing him in the mix going forward.
In other news congratulations to GTB who received a Member Of The British Empire award today and a belated one for Jonny Brownlee who got his last month. (Really big honour from the Royal family)
To be fair they hand them out like sweeties these days. The revolving door of PMs doesn’t help either.
In other news congratulations to GTB who received a Member Of The British Empire award today and a belated one for Jonny Brownlee who got his last month. (Really big honour from the Royal family)
To be fair they hand them out like sweeties these days. The revolving door of PMs doesn’t help either.Those will be the quality sweeties that come with ‘easily earned’ Olympic gold medals. Turnover frequency of PMs makes zero difference to such honours.
Good to see triathletes being honoured so, one with a Damehood (DBE).
If it’s the TdF route along the Champs E’lysees it likely won’t have much teeth, and so if people are confirming that it looks very tame, that makes sense. But if you are the French federation your likely most likely medalist is Beaugrand, so why not make the most bland course possible, especially if you have any input in the decision making. I mean I’m sure there is some give and take on who can decide the final say, and what needs to be highlighted, etc within French tri federation, French Olympic organization, WT, IOC, etc.
ETA: This summer the US hosted the World Games for duathlon (basically that sports “Olympics”). The course that was put forth by the local RD and federation and the course that was “allowed” was 2 different venues. Apparently 1 Homeland Security building was within the original race design and got nixed because of that. Funny enough they wouldn’t even id which building was the issue, and it made for a rather uninspiring race that created the issues that it did in the women’s race with 2/3rd being DQ’d for poor course markings/marshalling. I would guess the Olympics course will have input from a lot of people who likely don’t even know what tri is, lol. Whereas most of the time the WTCS courses, the tri federations alone can pretty much dictate the course.
You’re crazy if you think the French would make a course for Cassandra over any of their four guys who could medal. (Coninx, Bergere, Luis, Le Corre…all of whom have podiumed at an Olympic distance WTCS event)
Cassandra’s best ever WTCS level Olympic distances is 8th place.
She is very good, but 2 hours is not 1 hour.
In other news congratulations to GTB who received a Member Of The British Empire award today and a belated one for Jonny Brownlee who got his last month. (Really big honour from the Royal family)
To be fair they hand them out like sweeties these days. The revolving door of PMs doesn’t help either.
It was only for Gold medal winners. Hardly like sweeties!
You’re crazy if you think the French would make a course for Cassandra over any of their four guys who could medal. (Coninx, Bergere, Luis, Le Corre…all of whom have podiumed at an Olympic distance WTCS event)
Cassandra’s best ever WTCS level Olympic distances is 8th place.
She is very good, but 2 hours is not 1 hour.
BTW, would be great if any coach can tell me…After seeing Beaugraund and Rappaport for years dropping from the bike packs…is it that hard to improve the cycling to hold the pace + handling skills?? I even saw Summer in Bermuda struggling to jump on her bike, again…
On the other hand, Potter seems she has worked a lot.
You’re crazy if you think the French would make a course for Cassandra over any of their four guys who could medal. (Coninx, Bergere, Luis, Le Corre…all of whom have podiumed at an Olympic distance WTCS event)
Cassandra’s best ever WTCS level Olympic distances is 8th place.
She is very good, but 2 hours is not 1 hour.
BTW, would be great if any coach can tell me…After seeing Beaugraund and Rappaport for years dropping from the bike packs…is it that hard to improve the cycling to hold the pace + handling skills?? I even saw Summer in Bermuda struggling to jump on her bike, again…
On the other hand, Potter seems she has worked a lot.
I’m not a coach, but glad you asked this - I think, especially on this forum, there is the assumption that the bike is all about power.
It’s also a skill based sport - even in an IM you can gain or lose minutes with good riding skills - how you use the gears, how you corner, how you enter and exit hills. It adds up to a lot of time.
The ITU bike is not easy.
I’ve done my fair share of drafting Oly and Sprint races, and they remain the hardest bike legs I have done. If you can’t corner quickly in a pack, if you can’t put in continuous 10s maxed-out bursts for a full hour, you are toast.
And yet the race has already been described as bland. But think about it you got those 4 guys and You Can find 2-3 who are let’s call it top 8 run splits in the sport. So you now ensure that all 3 races is easy of which you’ve now improved your chances in all 3 races not just in mens by making individual race “hardâ€.
Eta: their medal favorite is probably the MTR of which Beaugrand is a huge weapon in.
While Vincent is certainly an excellent swimmer, he’s not in Varga’s league. ///
I dont know how you and a couple others can say this, did you all not see this race, or others
Monty,
I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree on this matter;)
Perhaps you didn’t realize it but Richy use to temper his race swims when he trained with the Brownlees to allow them to hold his feet. He’d often roll over on his back for a few strokes to make sure they were securely hooked on. If I remember correctly Johnny publicly chastised Richy for going too fast in Edmonton and dropping him. At Challenge Samorin in 2017 after leaving their training group Richy dropped Alistair, who had been tightly attached to his feet, after about 4 minutes and put 46 seconds into him in a 21:31, 1.9km swim. Alistair freely admitted that Richy was in a league of his own. So yes in regards to swimming a league of his own.
YMMV,
Hugh
In other news congratulations to GTB who received a Member Of The British Empire award today and a belated one for Jonny Brownlee who got his last month. (Really big honour from the Royal family)
To be fair they hand them out like sweeties these days. The revolving door of PMs doesn’t help either.Those will be the quality sweeties that come with ‘easily earned’ Olympic gold medals. Turnover frequency of PMs makes zero difference to such honours.
Good to see triathletes being honoured so, one with a Damehood (DBE).
Team gold medal. Ughhh.
Anyway good to see JB getting recognised as he has been around at the top level for over a decade.
It’s a little bit of skill + power + psychological. And when you have a weakness in any of those, the other gals are now smart enough and brave enough to make you pay. It wasn’t always like that in the female ranks. But now “weaknesses†are being put on the limit, as they should.
So if it’s psychological, either you figure out a way to improve and get over it or you are kinda screwed. But maybe some of those athletes just loathe one segment of the sport that it really is a struggle. GJ talked about that with the swim and a comeback (she did a good interview in 2017 about it) She recognizes what it takes to make it work and just doing swim sets at the local pool won’t work for her. She needs the daily attention from a coach and others around her to push her. So whether it’s the S B or R, you can have a mental hurdle. The bike is likely the hardest because the injury risk is the highest, and you are “going fast†and frankly that can be “scaryâ€. So if you are scared/fearful you’ll always have this “timidâ€ness about you that others can then just take advantage of.
GJ used to kinda be “meh†on the bike. I don’t think she was ever as bad as someone like Summer is this late into her career. But she was never really one to push the pace, def more of a passenger in the group. The winter before Rio her team went to California and rode down some steep climbs on the back of a professional driven moto going over 100+ mph, over and over for like a week. It taught her how to see the lines, how to position yourself, how to corner fast, and how to say “see this isn’t so badâ€. Next thing you know she’s the one pushing the bike to keep Spirig in check in Rio.
But that’a how invested she was in on winning and mind you this was after her dominant winning streak. Hell look into her story of when she made London Olympics and her decision to go all in or stay as part time triathlete, part time accountant. It takes boldness sometimes to fix things and to truly give yourself the best shot possible.
And sometimes being the worst S B or R in your training group over and over and over you don’t actually get to work on said skill. Like if your always worst out of corners, sometimes it’s kinda hard to figure out exactly what it is that makes you bad at it. It’s easy to scream at the athlete “hold the wheel†but if your the worst skilled athlete there you kinda don’t gain confidence from it. So there can be many reasons why said athletes continue to struggle with it. And hell said athletes can look good in practice and be right there on said person’s wheel but when it comes to doing it when the lights are on, they fail.
And when an athlete doesn’t look comfortable or relaxed on a bike, they simply are going to struggle on a technical itu course with many turns and u turns. You can fake it more in non draft than you can in itu where the technical skills are just part of the job.
Go watch the I believe 2013 MTR when US decided to pick a non draft bike specialist on the relay. He easily was among the worst bike handlers in the field, coming into the corners sitting on the hoods all up right (I call it granny turns). They went from leading to either 3rd or 4th on his final leg. They asked him what happened, his response “these guys know how to handle a bikeâ€.
It’s a little bit of skill + power + psychological. And when you have a weakness in any of those, the other gals are now smart enough and brave enough to make you pay. It wasn’t always like that in the female ranks. But now “weaknesses†are being put on the limit, as they should.
So if it’s psychological, either you figure out a way to improve and get over it or you are kinda screwed. But maybe some of those athletes just loathe one segment of the sport that it really is a struggle. GJ talked about that with the swim and a comeback (she did a good interview in 2017 about it) She recognizes what it takes to make it work and just doing swim sets at the local pool won’t work for her. She needs the daily attention from a coach and others around her to push her. So whether it’s the S B or R, you can have a mental hurdle. The bike is likely the hardest because the injury risk is the highest, and you are “going fast†and frankly that can be “scaryâ€. So if you are scared/fearful you’ll always have this “timidâ€ness about you that others can then just take advantage of.
GJ used to kinda be “meh†on the bike. I don’t think she was ever as bad as someone like Summer is this late into her career. But she was never really one to push the pace, def more of a passenger in the group. The winter before Rio her team went to California and rode down some steep climbs on the back of a professional driven moto going over 100+ mph, over and over for like a week. It taught her how to see the lines, how to position yourself, how to corner fast, and how to say “see this isn’t so badâ€. Next thing you know she’s the one pushing the bike to keep Spirig in check in Rio.
But that’a how invested she was in on winning and mind you this was after her dominant winning streak. Hell look into her story of when she made London Olympics and her decision to go all in or stay as part time triathlete, part time accountant. It takes boldness sometimes to fix things and to truly give yourself the best shot possible.
And sometimes being the worst S B or R in your training group over and over and over you don’t actually get to work on said skill. Like if your always worst out of corners, sometimes it’s kinda hard to figure out exactly what it is that makes you bad at it. It’s easy to scream at the athlete “hold the wheel†but if your the worst skilled athlete there you kinda don’t gain confidence from it. So there can be many reasons why said athletes continue to struggle with it. And hell said athletes can look good in practice and be right there on said person’s wheel but when it comes to doing it when the lights are on, they fail.
And when an athlete doesn’t look comfortable or relaxed on a bike, they simply are going to struggle on a technical itu course with many turns and u turns. You can fake it more in non draft than you can in itu where the technical skills are just part of the job.
Go watch the I believe 2013 MTR when US decided to pick a non draft bike specialist on the relay. He easily was among the worst bike handlers in the field, coming into the corners sitting on the hoods all up right (I call it granny turns). They went from leading to either 3rd or 4th on his final leg. They asked him what happened, his response “these guys know how to handle a bikeâ€.
I understand all of it, and I guess Summer is working on it…but its been like that since the first time I saw her. I am not a coach but if she struggles and hates the bike, well, I would go to theraphy and train the smartest way that I would be adviced, and I guess that includes reps reps reps and confront the danger. Wish her the best to be able to be amongst the top girls because she is one of the top runners. By the way, I have not seen that in the men field ever, or as long as I remember… but Gwen, Cassandre, Summer???.. is it panic?
But imo the issue with an metal hurdle is that you can be doing everything right in training, you can be working on it, it looks great and then WHAM, race day you fall back to square one. And we know she’s working the things in training cus she has a world class coach, she is riding with world class athletes. She’s doing bike reps, she’s doing cornering work. Hell my shop sold her a MTB 2 years ago to help her with her riding skills. She lived in my area for 2 years (well technically her home was here and she was only here in the off-season as she lives and trains full time in Europe).
But that’s the thing with a mental block. If one small thing gets into your head it’s over. And mind you, those front pack athletes EVERYONE knows what’s going on. Every athlete and coach knows what to do in a situation with a poor bike handling athlete. In the same way they know how to drop a poor runner or know how to drop a swimmer.
The polyansky brothers were well known for likely being the weakest front pack bikers in the men’s field. They were always in the back and were the first to get popped off when the heat was applied.
But also one final note. Sometimes your just not good enough on the bike. There is a funny story that Tommy Z tells of how good AB was on a bike. During a race AB rolled to the back and told Tommy he better help or he’ll get popped off. TZ already on the limit was like shit. Next thing you know AB popped him off.
The crazy thing he says about that story:
1- TZ didn’t not want to pull through, he was simply at his limit to simply hold a wheel.
2- the fact that AB said he would pop him off and then did it, that’s just another level of crazy good.
So mind you, the gals have gotten to the point that the bike isn’t a hand holding ride anymore, They are strong enough to make the weaker riders pay now. It wasn’t always like that.
Lastly, we don’t give chase pack swimmers or non front pack runners shit for not “getting better†at said weakness, generally you are what you are as a swimmer or runner as those are harder to overcome. Sometimes your best just isn’t good enough, the bike is likely the easiest to improve on due to the drafting advantage but they are still riding damn hard, that if you suck at it, you’ll pay for it….just like poor swimmers or poor runners pay for said weakness. I would say the bike is the easiest to fix but if you are an athlete that has some type of fear or just not strong enough, it then is harder to fix just as it’s really hard to fix a chase pack swim ability or a non front pack run ability. Yes Bike is likely the easiest of the 3 to get better at, but also have to give credit to everyone around you who’s making the bike count as well.
Jess Learmonth also honoured with an MBE (Member Of The British Empire)
Anyone know what she’s planning on doing when coming back from injury? Is she going to make the Brit Olympic selection team traditionally have to pick 3 from 4!
You’re crazy if you think the French would make a course for Cassandra over any of their four guys who could medal. (Coninx, Bergere, Luis, Le Corre…all of whom have podiumed at an Olympic distance WTCS event)
Cassandra’s best ever WTCS level Olympic distances is 8th place.
She is very good, but 2 hours is not 1 hour.
BTW, would be great if any coach can tell me…After seeing Beaugraund and Rappaport for years dropping from the bike packs…is it that hard to improve the cycling to hold the pace + handling skills?? I even saw Summer in Bermuda struggling to jump on her bike, again…
On the other hand, Potter seems she has worked a lot.
It is easier to develop the bike than the swim! I think it depends on the athlete and the approach to fixing it.
Potter has really worked on her bike and swim the last 18 months. The bike has been a total commitment to riding with people better than her and crits/chain gangs. I firmly believe that improving power isn’t the only piece of the answer. You have to get used to riding flat out with people all around you. You have to adapt to change in pace when you are already working REALLY hard.
You can improve generally but you won’t improve tactically etc.
Beaugrand has moved to Loughborough and I believe she will be doing most of her training with Ben D, Mathias, Coldwell et all. She can only benefit from that. They regularly have a similar approach to Leeds and have midweek races etc.