https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/12/americas/el-salvador-returners-bukele-crackdown/index.html
Murder rate down 98 percent. Rather amazing
I am curious, did you read the entire article?
You mean this part?
“In El Salvador, murders are down 70 percent. Why are they down? They’re down because they’re sending their murderers to the United States of America,” Trump claimed, offering no evidence to support his statement.
CNN asked Security Minister Villatoro whether Trump’s assertion held any truth.
“No,” Villatoro replied. “The problem with that, you (Trump) don’t have facts, you don’t have evidence, but instead, we have evidence of where we put our terrorists,” the minister said, referring to Cecot, the massive prison where thousands of gang members are held
An interesting read. A 16 year long case of asylum is denied. Was it denied now because the current authoritarian rule in El Salvador allows for a strong armed crackdown on violent crime and criminals? How many current parolees resident in the US from Venezuela, Haiti, Honduras, Nicaragua, Afghanistan and Mexico will also not withstand judicial scrutiny because conditions in their home country have changed? Or will they voluntarily want to go back home for a better life?
Stephen Miller had a bit of a meltdown when asked about his data on this issue.
https://x.com/madrid_mike/status/1834004580616863803?s=46&t=f4MKbkOzpNU_o_bXlnvUlQ
Strikes me as a deal with the devil you don’t to eradicate the devil you know.
This is why Trump lies incessantly about immigrant crime and why only he can fix it.
Oh man, that is funny. Miller totally loses his shit
Some facts
Aurora leaders backtrack on claims of Venezuelan gang activity - Axios Denver
We need to get to the bottom of this and ask some local Aurora residents what is going on in their community. If only there were a local, trusted news source available…
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I would never advocate violence but Stephen Miller has a very punchable face.
Impressive, shows the struggles after years of chaos and corruption. Many nations have citizens who feel safe and free, and as long their ideals follow the leaders they are.
Will be interesting to see where the country is in 10yrs.
Strict enforcement will get you compliance but at a cost. I can see how if the country gets that bad, your will to accept that chance of innocents getting arrested, vs innocents getting murder and not being able to walk the streets feeling safe.
There is a long history here.
- Reagan provided military support to fascist dictatorships in El Salvador, Nicaragua and Guatemala.
The USA provided weapons, training and ground support to death squads that massacred millions and attempted to exterminate ethnic groups. - This created a massive wave of immigration in Central Americans.
- Many of these immigrants wound up in LA. Here the children of these immigrants were introduced to American gang culture.
- When these children became adults and were arrested many were reported back to central America.
- The weak governments of Central American countries were not prepared for the arrival of massive numbers of American trained gangsters. And crime exploded.
- El Salvador appears to have brought this wave of American crime under control, under Bukele.
The perversity, immorality and hypocrisy of the US is astounding.
It is especially unbelievable that criminal traitors in the USA (i.e. MAGA) continue to talk shit about central American immigrants.
In a reasonable world Trump and his followers would be in prison.
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I did. What are your thoughts on it?
Pee Wee German will not rest until America is white again.
Clearly, this kind of program works. Just like in the Phillipines where pretty much any govt law enforcement officer (on duty or off duty) was able to gun down in the streets (with zero oversight0 ANY person even remotely suspected of drug use. However, many, many innocent people were executed this way and also opposing gang members were cleverly “reported” to the authorities by other gang bangers (because why kill an opposing gang member yourself when, instead, you can get the police to do it for you for free with just an anonymous “tip”?)
The El Salvador article mentions the success in reducing violence and also the fact that completely innocent people are now caught up in the system. So the question comes up, for such a program, what is the cost we are willing to bear (the cost in innocent people caught up in the system)? Then, rather than just mass incarceration, is anyone looking at the WHY El Salvador was able to be controlled by crime and gangs? And is anyone looking at the fact that many gang members had NO CHOICE but to join a gang. Because, in El Salvador, often, young people are offered this choice: you join our gang or we kill you and then rape and kill your family. So, of course, that creates multitudes of gang members.
What did you think of the article?
The OP kicked off this topic without direction.
Human migration and control of our border is in play, declaring asylum (predominantly for safety and economic and not political reasons) is in play, addressing root causes for migration (see Ms Harris role) is in play here.
The lead in this article is the case of the Denver couple who were “in limbo” parolee residents for near 20 years who have now returned to their home country through a denied claim and deportation is illustrative of just how complex the issue is.
As for devils known and unknown. Please explain further.
As for Trump’s lies: I’d put it as major whopping exaggerations to hype the fear factor and motivate would be voters to support. The base premise that bad apples are in the population of our new arrivals will always be true. How bad? how many ? A gang in Aurora does indeed move into a vacant property and they are involved in drugs. A hungry migrant kills a goose in Ohio and gets his picture taken before he heads home with his meal. Propaganda will always work when there is a simple nugget at the core that is factually true.
That is one thing that I have seen from MAGA. I’m sure that they didn’t invent it, but they sure seem to have perfected it. They will take one true innocuous fact, and then wrap lies around it. People will see/hear the true fact and assume that the rest of what they are saying is true.
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I read a bit more today on the Venezuelan gang Tren de Aragua.
From the Wall Street Journal
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/a-venezuelan-gang-is-expanding-its-deadly-reach-to-the-u-s/ar-AA1qqxqX
I have had a lot of personal problems dealing with the US departments of immigration and the border patrol.
When it comes to government bureaucracy…
It seems that sometimes government bureaucracies work, maybe not perfectly.
But some real work gets done, sometimes.
Sometimes government bureaucracies don’t work at all.
The US government has always been massively incompetent, when it comes to handling immigration and border control.
In general -
- Most of the government employees involved in the border and immigration - don’t work at all! Ever!
- Some agencies, departments and employees actually try to prevent work from happening.
- Many are involved in some form or corruption
Two theories:
- Bureaucracies that limit capitalism and personal freedom breed corruption and inefficiency.
- A high number of very low quality individuals have been allowed to dominate the culture of these bureaucracies.
The “border” is not something that can be solved!!
A bullshit military approach doesn’t work…
All you get is more bureaucratic disfunction. And more organized crime.
Honestly…
Benevolent disfunction is probably the best that can be achieved.
Maybe…
The encouragement of Democracy and the real rule of law in neighboring countries and in the US- might help.
But when the USA has a ex-President (Trump) - who was caught red handed committing multiple crimes. And who has political and judicial allies that seem willing to promote this criminality…
It seems inevitable that the USA border and immigration bureaucracies- will continue to be an Opportunity for organized crime.
Not an obstacle.
as do you Canada boy.
I had the opportunity to go surfing in El Tunco a year or so ago.
Few stories:
- 70+ year old man in the airport saying it was the first time he felt safe in his life
- Our surf guide told how someone from every family had been murdered by gangs. That’s not the case anymore.
- Local businesses are thriving. They no longer have to pay tribute to the gangs.
- Heard that it used to be if you joined the police the gangs would kill you and your family. No longer.
It was a wonderful, safe place to visit. Very kind people. Generally, I got the feeling that the vast majority of people support Bukele and are ok with a handful of human rights violations if it means everyone else is safe.