Ran on ESPN this evening. What did everyone think, so far?
EDITTED TO ADD: title of post to parts 1 & 2, so this can be one thread come Sunday.
I found it fascinating. What has always bothered me about Lance, much more than the doping, is the character assassination he rained down on others. Instead of simply disagreeing with others, he set out to destroy those who were at odds with him. He took it as a personal affront when someone did something as simple as leaving the team for another. I saw his vitriol and petulance firsthand at the Tour de Georgia when he was feuding with Floyd Landis on the finish at the top of Brasstown Bald. In the first episode, it was interesting to me to see how he has always exhibited bad behavior, even from an early age. The arrogance, the childishness, the entitlement, all that have apparently been traits of his since he was a teen. As an aside, I read a story written by another professional athlete’s publicist who said that the two worst athletes he had ever been around were an 18-year-old LeBron James and Lance Armstrong.
Another interesting segment came when the interviewer asked Lance if he thought that doping caused his cancer. I’ve always thought that the drugs played some kind of role, even if but a secondary role, in his disease. I read it somewhere – I believe it was on here many, many years ago (while LA was still racing and people were still debating whether or not he was doping) – that the markers for cancer were similar to the markers for drug use. If that’s true, then in effect the drugs were at the least masking the presence of the cancer. I won’t give Lance’s answer here to keep from spoiling that little tidbit for others but I found his answer very interesting.
All of us who were riding/racing back then know the story and the characters. Seeing and hearing from them, as well as hearing a few behind the scenes stories about the races and the cycling scene in general was also pretty neat. I haven’t watched a lot of television during this shutdown but I’m really drawn to this documentary. I will probably watch it multiple times.
RP
Have not watched it, and won’t. I used to be a massive fanboy of Lance. Too much time wasted on him.
Can you give us the cliff notes version for those of us that didn’t watch it? I saw some of the reviews in the media and it sounds like the same old crap:
Lance admitting he was a total asshole back then but still not really showing any genuine remorse, because guess what, he’s still a total asshole.A bit more trickle-truthing about the extent of his doping in that it encompassed his entire career and started before his WC win and cancer diagnosis. Some nostalgic footage to gloss over the fact that there’s no new substance here, because we’ve heard it all before and it’s just the project of a fading narcissist trying to grab what little attention he can.
Does that sound about right?! 
Have not watched it, and won’t. I used to be a massive fanboy of Lance. Too much time wasted on him.
Yeah I was interested, especially when he started racing triathlon, but he’s almost 50 now and hasn’t raced anything meaningful in almost 10 years. Time to move on.
Oh FFS…
What did everyone think, so far?
I think Lance cheated, used drugs from a very young age, and used motors.
micro motors designed by aliens?
I have similar impressions as you. I thought the responses by the cyclists (Hincapie, Hamilton, Lance, etc.) to the very first question: “At what age did you start using PED’s?” was fascinating.
Other than that, the first episode didn’t reveal too much we didn’t already know (beyond your noted exception).
I’ll watch the rest of it - it’s hard for me to turn my eyes away from a train wreck.
Love Lance, but he still comes off as so so unlikeable. If people don’t like your character, they’ll hold mistakes over your head for life. He likes to compare himself to Arod but his character is closer to Barry Bonds.
I thought it was well done. I think it shows the passion it takes to make it at that level and he has it. He pushed people out of his way to get to the top like so many other champions have. He’s a prick and that seems to happen a lot at the top.
Interestingly, the two top drugs they used don’t have a big role in developing cancer. That part I think was just bad luck.
It is worth the watch. I thought (for Lance) that he was relatively humble and revealing.
Terry Armstrong seems like a piece of work.
He pushed people out of his way to get to the top like so many other champions have. He’s a prick and that seems to happen a lot at the top.
Having just watched the Last Dance, I felt like there were actually a ton of things Lance said that sounded almost identical to what MJ said. A lot of the willing-to-do- whatever type mentality. And how they were kind of douchecanoes to anyone who was in the way.
He pushed people out of his way to get to the top like so many other champions have. He’s a prick and that seems to happen a lot at the top.
Having just watched the Last Dance, I felt like there were actually a ton of things Lance said that sounded almost identical to what MJ said. A lot of the willing-to-do- whatever type mentality. And how they were kind of douchecanoes to anyone who was in the way.
Does saying douchecanoe make you one?
I was never a Lance fanboy, but I find his story to be fascinating. I’ll probably watch it.
As for doping, he was dead last in his first race after going pro after the Olympics in '92, then a few weeks or a couple of months later and I think he won a fall semi-classic. I figured back then that he had gotten on the program, although I wouldn’t be surprised if he had started earlier than that. USA Cycling had some significant issues with doping around that time. Look up Greg Strock, Chris Carmichael, and Rene Wenzel…
I have similar impressions as you. I thought the responses by the cyclists (Hincapie, Hamilton, Lance, etc.) to the very first question: “At what age did you start using PED’s?” was fascinating.
Agree. That seemed to catch them all off guard and get their attention right away.
As for the episode itself, I thought it was good. I’m waiting to see in the next episode how he addresses his behavior towards those who called him out (Landis, Hamilton, the Andreu’s just to name a few) or if it’s going to be more of the same “everyone was doing it†cavalier approach.
I was a big fan of his back in the day, thinking back then that with all of the testing (and not realizing that he was a step ahead) plus with everything he had done to raise money/support for the cancer community (my dad was going through colon cancer at the time), that there was no way he would risk everything by doping. The staunch denials and the way he treated his accusers made his ultimate “Yeah I did it, so what?†admission that much more disappointing.
He gave “his truthâ€. I don’t think anything was new in the first part, other than him finally stating on the record he started doping at age 21, along with taking syringe injections with legal things prior to going pro (before age 21).
When asked if he knew what was in his syringes before 21, he said of course and would research it at the time… that sounds very unbelievable. He’s researching legal performance enhancement concoctions on his own pre Internet age, while at some international race in a country that he doesn’t speak the language? Sure… sounds believable. Taken at face value, it shows he’s been injecting stuff into himself for years, and never had an issue with it. He denied for his entire career that his World Champion win in 1993 was clean, obviously not, but he’s saying he didn’t take epo, until after that period, while riding away from an epo fuelled peloton, is also hard to believe, given the huge boost to performance from epo.
It has been speculated that his triathlon coach, Rick Crawford, was the first person that started doping him, as he coached/doped other professional cyclists, Like Leipheimer, O’Bee, coached Tom Danielson in college. Rick also coached Chann McRae (a friend of Lance from Texas at the time) that became a triathlete and then rode in Euro peloton at the highest level. Rick was interviewed, but nothing new was revealed, they still seem like friends (or maybe jaded against each other) solely protecting each other, as it would further undermine LA story (and Rick would be in hot water for doping a minor), especially if he was being doped as a teenager.
http://stevetilford.com/...tence-rick-crawford/
USA Cycling was doping the amateur squad that Lance was on in 1990. Two of the athletes settled with USA cycling for being doped, (cortisone steroid injections) without their permission. Gregory Strock and Erik Kaiter were paid a settlement of $250,000 each by USA Cycling.
https://www.cbsnews.com/...nd-glory-10-04-2001/
… Three coaches—Rene Wenzel, Angus Fraser, and a third unnamed party (reportedly Chris Carmichael, who settled out-of-court)—tasked by the U.S. team to look after minors in Japan injected them with cortisone without their consent, later leading to heath problems. In 2006, USA Cycling paid Greg Strock and Erich Kaiter $250,000 to settle the suit.
Carmichael was tied to LA for much of his career, too.
I’m not gonna be able to watch, however that is interesting, when did Hincapie and Hamilton admit to first doping?
Juliet Macur, who wrote the following book about Armstrong, was doing fact checking on Lance’s Truth. Her twitter feed has lots of interesting backstory about Lance.
https://twitter.com/JulietMacur
As I surmised in my post above, that Lance winning 1993 Worlds without epo, would not be possible against a peloton on epo…
Juliet wrote on Twitter last night:
John Hendershot, a soigneur on the Motorola team, told me that by 1993, Lance Armstrong was using EPO and other substances like growth hormone, amphetamines, blood thinners and testosterone. So Lance is off with his timing here. #30For30
https://www.amazon.com/Cycle-Lies-Fall-Lance-Armstrong/dp/0062277227
I’m not gonna be able to watch, however that is interesting, when did Hincapie and Hamilton admit to first doping?
They were all asked, but no reply was shown on the show. It’s a moving target anyway…