I hear you. I already spoke with a couple of friends who are all thinking the same thing - we may end up buying a place in Las Vegas and naming it as our primary residence One friend of mine actually was at the Irvine, CA min. security prison yesterday - he told them to make up his bunk and get it ready - because enough is enough and he’s decided he rather do time there then pay another cent to the complete fiscal morons who are running this state (and their contingent of illegal or unionized playpals)
This situation in CA is becoming a joke. Seriously, within 20 years the entire state will be a ghetto with a few sections of barbed wire subdivisions for the ultra rich. 14% tax hike + additional 2.5% on whatever tax you pay, plus increase in sales tax (at least we still aren’t as bad as Chicago there), gas tax, etc. While I may be a transplant here, my girlfriend was raised in Huntington Beach and gets very depressed knowing the destructive path we are heading down, and that she may not be able to continue to live here (she is in the top tax bracket - through her own hard work, not a single friggin’ handout from anyone).
I have 3 conference calls with companies set up this afternoon who are seriously looking at relocating their business (one of them has about 300 employees) out of state as well. While it is too early to recommend this, I’m glad they are at least thinking about it - that means they have developed in their thinking of how political policies affect their day-to-day life. It is going to get REALLY ugly here…
“The only way conservatism doesn’t win is when it isn’t on the ballet.”
Personally, I’m not concerned about how well conservatives dance–only about whether or not they will respect individual freedom. Disentangling the tentacles of government from the economy is very important to our freedom, but there are other important aspects of freedom that are not universally respected by conservatives.
Exactly the point! When republicans stick to the conservative values it wins and it works.
*** Smal***l government. Personal responsibility. Personal Freedom. Big Military, Small spending everywhere else. Tax Cuts, let the American people decide how to spend their money, etc.
When we as a party stray from these core values and move to the left, we lose elections and water down the party. We are never respected for trying to reach across the isle…it doesn’t work!
My only consolation is that pretty soon even the liberals are going to wise and realize they don’t have any money either. We’ll see how quick they turn into fiscal conservatives. Only then will we get change we can believe in.
Define “Benefiting” for me? Do you really believe it was because of our socio-economic system as to why some are making more money than others?
I call BS on you, once you do the math, many more people will pay a NEGATIVE effective FEDERAL tax rate (includes fed income tax, SSI and medicare tax.) - once again do the math. If you still paying some tax at the poverty line that means you are single and rent, go have a kid or better yet go be a first time home buyer (there are some goodies in the bill for you) - then you can join the majority of those that will not pay a net federal tax - you are so close, I say go for it.
Yes, you will pay property taxes, state income taxes, sales taxes and I will agree with you that are fucked by all the hidden taxes you pay…but I am not talking about those things.
“Since every prosperous country in the world has a governernment with tentacles very deep into the economy…”
Except that a survey of actual countries, which I’ve pointed out to you not once but twice in the past, reveals more or less the opposite. I’m not going to bother digging out the reference again.
"Exactly the point! When republicans stick to the conservative values it wins and it works.
Small government. Personal responsibility. Personal Freedom. Big Military, Small spending everywhere else."
Unfortunately, the “personal freedom” part isn’t supported by a lot of conservatives. Also, I don’t necessarily agree with your extrapolation from individual freedom to “Big Military.” I would say rather that individual freedom requires a sufficient military to deal with realistic threats to freedom, but not one that is involved in other kinds of misadventures.
Besides, the very essence of conservatism is adherence to the status quo, and at present the status quo is unacceptable to those who truly believe in individual freedom.
Going back to the parallel you drew between conservatism and the ballet in your earlier post, conservatives, like ballerinas, have to tiptoe around the whole issue of individual freedom.
Define “Benefiting” for me? Do you really believe it was because of our socio-economic system as to why some are making more money than others?
Curious how it could be any other way.
Yes, you will pay property taxes, state income taxes, sales taxes and I will agree with you that are fucked by all the hidden taxes you pay…but I am not talking about those things
No… you are talking about income tax, and it is only fair that those who are profiting the most from our socio-economic system (ie have high incomes) should pay more of it. Or do you want the people who work hard and only make $15k/yr to pay a high tax on their income?
the problem here is that much of the incorrectly labeled “tax cut” portion of this bill is in reality* an increase in spending, effectively funding welfare payments to a segment of the population.
Yeah, well, reality bites! I’m waiting for the next coined phrase like “Earned Income Tax Credit” which is essential welfare, but you get thru a negative tax rate…so in essence it’s a tax cut for the poor…or welfare.
I just LOVED EITC. Seriously where did the “Earned” part come from. What in the hell was done to earn the money other than not work enough to make enough money to pay enough taxes to have a positive tax rate?
“Hey I EARNED that money!”.
“What did you do to earn it?”
“Nothing”
“…Then you didn’t earn it, it was GIVEN to you”
“No…it says EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT…I earned”
So the reason why I pay more in taxes than you make in income is just because I have been lucky and blessed? Are you saying that I have played NO role in my own financial situation?
Caps for emphasis…NO, I AM TALKING ABOUT ALL FEDERAL INCOME TAXES, INCLUDING PAYROLL TAXES. AFTER THIS NEW BILL IN ENACTED, OVER 50% WILL PAY NO NET FEDERAL INCOME TAXES. HAVE YOUR HEARD OF CHILD TAX CREDITS, HAVE YOU HEARD OF EITC, HAVE YOU HEARD OF REBATE CHECKS, ETC, ETC, ETC.
Lastly, I do believe that the wealthy should pay more and they do…not sure where you thought that I wanted the tax burden on low income earners…the whole POINT of the thread was is it good for the majority to pay nothing in Federal income taxes.
*** Smal***l government. Personal responsibility. Personal Freedom. Big Military, Small spending everywhere else. Tax Cuts, let the American people decide how to spend their money, etc.
You’ve describe libertarians, not conservatives. Conservatives are down with paternalism and authoritarianism and rarely go for the “personal freedom” thing unless they’re an old-school Goldwater style conservative.
Besides, the very essence of conservatism is adherence to the status quo, and at present the status quo is unacceptable to those who truly believe in individual freedom.
Not quite as easy as that!
Get rid of the IRS replace with Fair Tax/ Straight Tax
Privatize Social Security.
Reform Education with Vouchers
Privatize health care
Just to name a couple.
Doesn’t sound like complete adherence to the status quo. Seems that the Democrats are hanging on to the status quo in many areas!
I cant quite make the leap to Libertarian because of the slippery slope of total personal freedom and no moral compass leads to to fucking horses and and marrying midgets.
Obviously you know me and my party better than I do.
I have been on the finance committee for the Colorado Republican party for 10 years, and I had no idea. Thank you.
Well you initially said conservatives, not Republicans. Republcans, if the past 8 years have been any guide, are socialist/collectivists who love big gov’t, hate civil liberties and spend like there’s no tomorrow. They’re democrats with more guns and less hair.
Just to pick at your numbers, do the majority in your family pay taxes? I would guess that your wife and kids do not (because you do). If so, don’t you see the problem with your numbers? This year 66% of my family did, next year 50% will and hopefully a few years after that it will be down to 40%…
“I cant quite make the leap to Libertarian because of the slippery slope of total personal freedom and no moral compass leads to to fucking horses and and marrying midgets.”
I’m assuming here that you really mean “libertarian” rather than “Libertarian,” since no such suggestion has been made regarding the Libertarian Party. In any case, there’s no such slippery slope, unless one believes that all morally desirable ends must be legislated by government (i. e., the Fallacy of Political Reductionism–Principles of Human Action: Ethical Science, p. 3.12:13 ff.). But if one believes that government is the ultimate source of all that is desirable, then obviously one can have no appreciation for individual freedom in the first place.
Your reference to “total personal freedom” also seems to suggest that freedom means some kind of “anything goes” attitude that has no boundaries. On the contrary, “freedom” has a very specific meaning in a political context, a meaning that is implemented through a complex system of well-defined rights.*
It’s precisely because I DO have a moral compass that I passionately believe in individual freedom: My understanding of ethics precludes me from condoning violations of legitimate individual rights. That’s one of the main things that sets me apart from conservatives.
*I have to admit, though, that in a free society midgets would be free to marry, and I’m not sure why you would find that of moral concern.
One friend of mine actually was at the Irvine, CA min. security prison yesterday - he told them to make up his bunk and get it ready - because enough is enough and he’s decided he rather do time there then pay another cent to the complete fiscal morons who are running this state (and their contingent of illegal or unionized playpals)
