How many civilians have died in Gaza in the past 11 months? I would hate to see the number if Israel wasn’t “doing its best to avoid civilian casualties.”
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What has he written that “defends a terrorist organization?”
Please be specific.
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If I provide IDF’s number, you will reject them. Yet, yourself and all other antisemitic terrorist supporters take hamas numbers without any scrutiny. So why do you even ask me?
BTW, what is the left-wing folks like yourself romantic obsession with supporting islamic terorrist groups? They are not communists. They see us as infidels (whether we are useful or not).
Hamas actually started very much only attacking the IDF and not targeting civilians. This is not a lie. From 1987 to 1994, their attacks were focused on the IDF.
What caused them to change tactics and start targeting civilians? It was the cave of the patriarchs massacre.
And you know who had a painting in his home celebrating that act of terrorism? Current member of the Israeli cabinet Ben-Gvir. So that is fun.
I think it is bad that both sides here like terrorism.
Can we agree that both sides supporting terrorism is bad?
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I truly and deeply believe that saying “killing civilians is wrong” is the opposite of supporting terrorism.
Osama Bib Laden justified the civilian deaths of 9/11 on the argument that those who support governments that commit terrible acts are legitimate targets. I disagree that 9/11 was justified, but there are people in this very thread that are pretty close to agreeing with Osama here, but you are not saying they support terrorism. Shouldn’t that give you pause.
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See how you twist things to support terrorism: what you are saying is that if a single person does an act of terrorism, then it is ok to retaliate back towards this person’s countrymen and execute and rape 1,200 of their civilians? A mosque was targeted by a Canadian where I live, so following your logic, it 's ok for muslims in Canada to have open season on all of us after the attack?
IDF is not targeting civilians. Hamas and Hezbollah are. You can’t use the act of a single criminal in 1994 to justify your antisemitism and terrorism. Do better.
You really think detonating explosives when you don’t know who is carrying them and they likely will be around civilians, is a great idea that should not be looked at critically?
And you know historically, terrorist groups are not defeated by blowing up some of the leadership. Killing a bunch of civilians, brutally occupying lands, and stealing those lands, are only strengthening Hizbollah.
So I think they should stop doing things that strengthen Hizbollah. I know, a crazy plan, stop making your enemy stronger.
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Dildos are on schedule for tomorrow.
I will join you in criticizing a wide range of things Israel has done which, as you say, have likely made Israel less secure. But, I don’t think hostile use of force against Hisballah should be excluded. If you disagree and think that nearly any such action is a mistake, then the debate really isn’t about this particular tactic. If, instead, you accept that some military action is acceptable/wise, then I’d repeat my question about what actions you would approve.
Much as I assume you don’t like people jumping to the conclusion that you’re an anti-semite who defends terrorism, I think you might consider also not making these wild leaps of “logic.”
This was my point.
There just seems to be some difference between, say, a drone strike at a wedding designed to take out a known enemy who was in attendance, knowing that it will also result in civilian casualties. As problematic as that may be, I can understand the logic.
There seems to be something different about detonating pagers not knowing who actually has them.
And the end of the day, one can agree with the tactic and strategy. But that agreement should be at a minimum coupled with some uncertainty, at least some recognition for the moral ambiguity of it.
I guess for some here, though, being troubled and questioning this is the equivalent of defending terrorism, when it should be the exact opposite.
I’m not condemning Israel for this. I’m just saying that it’s really concerning. And it’s disturbing that so many here seem to be so eager to applaud this without question.
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Its war it is never free of negatives. Israeli is at war with Hezbollah
My manager has been deemed a terrorist because he was drafted into the Revolutionary Guard where he worked in HR for two years.
Windy would have no issue with him being blown up with a pager.
Who deemed him a terrorist?
Current reporting indicates 12 deaths from yesterday’s pager attacks. 2 were children. Almost 17% of deaths from this attack were kids. That doesn’t seem to me like great collateral damage management. I don’t think we have a clear idea of the rest of the injuries as far as how many were Hizb’allah as opposed to innocent civilians, but Israel simply has not done a good job making it clear to the international community that they take that management responsibility seriously.
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Nobody is saying that war should be free of negatives. But we also no longer live in a world where we can carpet bomb a city, with few questioning the morality of that. I think that’s a good thing – that we actually question the morality now of state actions – that we don’t support without question something just because someone says “Israel good, Hezbollah bad.” We can still evaluate the relative morality of Hezbollah and it’s operations, and being troubled by this should be considered an endorsement,. Just like supporting a particular Israeli response shouldn’t be considered an endorsement of their West Bank settlements. It’s ok to be troubled by this. It’s ok to have nuanced view. It’s ok to be undecided.
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I have no problem with being undecided. But when it comes time to chose supporting one side or another I will still support Israel.
I read that many of the injuries (of which there were vastly more than the 12 reported deaths) were to the eyes as people were looking at their pagers when they went off.
It seems horrifically medieval, especially considering whatever percentage was collateral damage. But, blinding thousands of your adversary is a damn ruthlessly effective means to render them ineffective combatants, even if they are not among the few killed.
I am not sure how they can do better. Maybe by not taking out their enemies? I also wonder about the veracity of these reports. I think the Israelis are way smarter than I am in terms of not being wiped out in a very hostile neighborhood. I know for sure they are not asking me for advice.
It’s not an either/or situation, though. It is possible to support Israel and also criticize Israel. I understand that there are those who disagree, but I don’t care about them.
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