Sorry for the dumb question but is turtling basically the dropping of the head while on the bars? And why is it useful or needed
Thanks
Sorry for the dumb question but is turtling basically the dropping of the head while on the bars? And why is it useful or needed
Thanks
It’s not dropping the head as in looking down…but it IS the dropping of the head/neck downward.
It’s useful because wind tunnel testing shows that it drops your drag.
It can also be useful because it creates a great interface between the aero helmet and the rider’s back. Look at Nick’s video and notice the gap between the helmet’s tail and his back until he begins to turtle.
Appreciate you reply. THanks
Apologies for the loud music. Next time I will put an AWESOME MUSIC warning label. 
Thanks for the legit response. Not sure if I like the turtling well enough to do it in a race. I’m worried it might make me all tensed up for the run. But I have a sprint on Sunday (first of the season!), so I can try it out then perhaps.
Try it out in the Sprint…or alternate back and forth to stay loose. I find that it relieves muscular tension across the front of the shoulders and chest when I turtle. It’s not without its own type of fatigue, but I do think it’s more comfortable than not turtling.
Have fun on Sunday. Come back to this thread and post your impression of the turtling after trying it.
Not interested in your fit comments.
Too bad. 
My leg angle is 148 degrees, well within FIST, and my foot angle is self selected.
The reason that your self-selected foot angle is so extreme is because your saddle is too high. Lowering it will not only likely improve your gross efficiency, and hence power output, but also improve your aerodynamics (assuming you lower the bars as well).
So I guess its technically turtling, but the difference isn’t really going to make a HUGE difference, especially if it is super uncomfortable for you to hold.
If you really want to go fast, then you need to get your head lower in relation to your back. I would suggest lowering the saddle as well as moving it back slightly. This will enable you to get lower, and it might enable you to get your head lower relative to your back.
Stop being so argumentative. People are actually trying to help you. Regardless of the angle of your leg, you seat is too high. You will likely generate more power as well as adopt a more aerodynamic position if you lower your saddle, but what do I know…
Not interested in your fit comments.
Too bad.
My leg angle is 148 degrees, well within FIST, and my foot angle is self selected.
The reason that your self-selected foot angle is so extreme is because your saddle is too high. Lowering it will not only likely improve your gross efficiency, and hence power output, but also improve your aerodynamics (assuming you lower the bars as well).
You beat me to it…darn…
Not interested in your fit comments.
Too bad.
My leg angle is 148 degrees, well within FIST, and my foot angle is self selected.
The reason that your self-selected foot angle is so extreme is because your saddle is too high. Lowering it will not only likely improve your gross efficiency, and hence power output, but also improve your aerodynamics (assuming you lower the bars as well).
You beat me to it…darn…
Wait a sec…didn’t you just say:
“…overall your position looks awesome! Your seat is NOT too high by my tastes…”?
Not interested in your fit comments.
Too bad.
My leg angle is 148 degrees, well within FIST, and my foot angle is self selected.
The reason that your self-selected foot angle is so extreme is because your saddle is too high. Lowering it will not only likely improve your gross efficiency, and hence power output, but also improve your aerodynamics (assuming you lower the bars as well).
You beat me to it…darn…
Wait a sec…didn’t you just say:
“…overall your position looks awesome! Your seat is NOT too high by my tastes…”?
no…that was some guy named “jyeager” in post 12
Not interested in your fit comments.
Too bad.
My leg angle is 148 degrees, well within FIST, and my foot angle is self selected.
The reason that your self-selected foot angle is so extreme is because your saddle is too high. Lowering it will not only likely improve your gross efficiency, and hence power output, but also improve your aerodynamics (assuming you lower the bars as well).
You beat me to it…darn…
Wait a sec…didn’t you just say:
“…overall your position looks awesome! Your seat is NOT too high by my tastes…”?
no…that was some guy named “jyeager” in post 12
Dang…I could have sworn that the message to which I was replying was from jyeager…
Anyway, my apologies.
EDIT: Now I know what happened! I clicked on the thread from the main board, which hadn’t caught up and still showed the last post as being by jyeager. I therefore assumed that your last post was his.
Not interested in your fit comments.
Too bad.
My leg angle is 148 degrees, well within FIST, and my foot angle is self selected.
The reason that your self-selected foot angle is so extreme is because your saddle is too high. Lowering it will not only likely improve your gross efficiency, and hence power output, but also improve your aerodynamics (assuming you lower the bars as well).
You beat me to it…darn…
There are trade offs both ways. First, I don’t know where it’s been established that a lower seat improves power output?
It would improve the Cda, but it also pushes the thigh deeper in to the abdomen which can interfere with respiration.
On the other hand, dropping the heel more can help to recruit more glutes, and less quads which is a definite plus not only in bike power but in running ability afterwards.
FWIW, I haven’t watched video of myself pedalling, but I’m guessing that he and I have very similar setups including the seat height. I use a little less knee angle on my TT bike vs. my road and mtn bikes and the primary reason is that I have a tight hip angle and need that extra room to breath.
Keep in mind that he’s sitting at an effective STA near 90 degrees. Rotate him back 18 degrees and you will see his foot looks much closer to horizontal and you wouldn’t be complaining.
no…that was some guy named “jyeager” in post 12
For some reason that sounds insulting! 
“That was some dude named “Flanagan””
I guess I thought I was around enough to be seen as one of the family.
No worries.
The reason that your self-selected foot angle is so extreme is because your saddle is too high. Lowering it will not only likely improve your gross efficiency, and hence power output, but also improve your aerodynamics (assuming you lower the bars as well).
I don’t think that’s true. My saddle WAS lower, but I found that my leg angle was shy of optimal (it was about 138). But my foot still liked to point, even at the lower saddle height. So I raised the saddle, and now my leg angle is ~146-148, and my foot looks the same. That’s why I say that the foot angle is self-selected. Apparently my body likes it that way. I don’t think it’s “so extreme” as you say.
What you call “argumentative” I would call “trying to stay on topic.” I came to get information on turtling, and 6 of the first 7 replies said nothing about it.
What helmet is it?
Uvex Aero.
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/road-bikes/product-apparel/2010-uvex-aero-helmet-7546.2681.0.html
I thank you.
Not interested in your fit comments.
Too bad.
My leg angle is 148 degrees, well within FIST, and my foot angle is self selected.
The reason that your self-selected foot angle is so extreme is because your saddle is too high. Lowering it will not only likely improve your gross efficiency, and hence power output, but also improve your aerodynamics (assuming you lower the bars as well).
You beat me to it…darn…
There are trade offs both ways. First, I don’t know where it’s been established that a lower seat improves power output?
There are reams of evidence that a saddle that is too high (or too low, but too high is worse) reduces gross efficiency, increases metabolic strain, etc., during submaximal exercise. Morever, it has been directly shown that a saddle that is too high impairs short-term power output.
Keep in mind that he’s sitting at an effective STA near 90 degrees. Rotate him back 18 degrees and you will see his foot looks much closer to horizontal and you wouldn’t be complaining.
Yes, I would: it has been shown that changes in seat tube angle have only a very small effect of ankle angle at a fixed saddle height. IOW, the primary factor driving his extreme foot angle isn’t the seat tube angle, but an excessively-high saddle.
The reason that your self-selected foot angle is so extreme is because your saddle is too high. Lowering it will not only likely improve your gross efficiency, and hence power output, but also improve your aerodynamics (assuming you lower the bars as well).
I don’t think that’s true. My saddle WAS lower, but I found that my leg angle was shy of optimal (it was about 138). But my foot still liked to point, even at the lower saddle height.
Measured under what conditions, and how much time did you allow for accomodation/adaptation?
So I raised the saddle, and now my leg angle is ~146-148, and my foot looks the same. That’s why I say that the foot angle is self-selected. Apparently my body likes it that way. I don’t think it’s “so extreme” as you say.
Sorry, but I think it is. For example, you’d very hard-pressed to find any professional cyclist riding so toe-down, even aboard their TT bike.
What you call “argumentative”
I didn’t call anything argumentative. I will say, though, that if you think you can control the direction of a thread you start on a forum on the Internet, you must be awfully new to this world.
You’ve been on ST long enough to know that if you post a picture, you have to be prepared for comments about everything in the photo.
However, I agree with AC and Flanagan.
//I didn’t call anything argumentative. I will say, though, that if you think you can control the direction of a thread you start on a forum on the Internet, you must be awfully new to this world. //
^scoreboard : Dr. Andrew Coggan 1/ other guy- negative 0 ^
yes i said negative zero and I’ll shut up now.
Sorry, but I think it is. For example, you’d very hard-pressed to find any professional cyclist riding so toe-down, even aboard their TT bike.
And even if I did, it’d probably have to be some relative unknown. Right, roadhouse?
