Is counseling always the right answer?

The Coffee Shop
1

in the CS’s hot topic, there are many calls for counseling as a way to solve a family issue.

i’ll assume many of our regulars have benefited from it, with substantial improvements in themselves and their loved ones

BUT is counseling always helpful? Obviously with mental illness and family ruptures, it’s necessary.

That said, has anyone had a bad experience or a situation made worse because the professional was deficient, overconfident in diagnosis, prescription happy, whatever? Or was it the right person from the get go?

If you’re willing to share observations, how would you navigate finding a competent professional?

2

If you remove all the personal details from that thread and just look at what’s described; theft, bullying, food hoarding, disorder and poor behaviour at home and not at school - those are things I’d want to speak to someone about before determining a course of action when they’ve been going on for years

For us, when we received a referral and got a subsequent child psychiatrist and SLT appointment for diagnosis, we knew there was behavioural issues, we - and we are both well educated, work in healthcare - never saw the behaviour as being a result of a MH condition - it was

If people met the child, they’d never know, it’s only if you spent sufficient time with her to see some of the behavioural issues

I think the argument that no one knows their children better than parents works to a point. My child never went to bed and fell asleep once from birth until she was 6.

Wouldn’t wear underwear/ socks for imaginary itchy pieces in them…

Obviously if we’d known our child so well, we’d not have made her suffer sleep deprivation and other consequences which were just not her fault e.g. spend an hour trying to get her in to socks and underwear to leave the house - we’d have looked for solutions - and that isn’t to say that we did not (seamless underwear is a thing and materially changed our life)

Eventually she was given melatonin rx and the first night she fell asleep, 4 years on she’s no longer taking it but sleep improved a number of issues

I’d never have said we didn’t know our child, we did, there were no reasons we should have thought her behavior was the result of a underlying condition.

I’d have said before getting anyone involved with the child i would want to speak to someone 1:1 and see what their thoughts are on the behaviour.

It may actually be no counselling will help,

I think the point with the other thread is some people see a list of behaviors and think insolent / disobedient child and others think there may be more too it.

Certainly the parent is closest and has far more information but the idea that because they are, it precludes diagnosing a problem they don’t think it exists doesn’t make them right. (I’m not saying they’re wrong either)

If I were looking for someone to talk to, I’d want a child psychiatrist / psychologist and i’d go and have a 1:1 and document the behaviours, the actions, the results and listen to what they say, and if I was sceptical I’d book a second opinion and go from there

2 Likes
3

I haven’t caught up on that thread and I don’t have children, but I have been in therapy and have therapists in my family. So just my 2c.

I think that seeing a counselor or therapist, which includes taking the time to find the right one, will be beneficial in a huge number of cases. It’s true that some counselors are not a good fit and that it takes a few tries to find a good one. However, the likelihood of getting a counselor that will be actively counterproductive (misdiagnoses, etc) is far, far smaller than the likelihood that you’ll gain something.

As for “I know my own children”: again I haven’t read the thread so I don’t know the context in which that was used, but that sounds a bit like an excuse to not find counseling. We aren’t born with infallible instincts for parenting. A trained and experienced professional can help zero in on the causes of issues and give both the child and the parent tools for how to address these issues.

1 Like
4

Somebody once said that therapists are the sworn enemies of guilt. And another that the job of therapists for children in a divorce is to make the children better so adults can get on with their lives.
People can chose their therapists as Catholics used to chose their confessors.
I assume most therapists are okay .
My daughter has seen quite a few. Some she has found useless others quite helpful.
Finding a good one. I guess like finding any good professional. A recommendation from a trusted friend. Maybe your primary care knows a good therapist etc.

2 Likes
5

What he is doing isn’t helping. I think he was looking for vindication that his approach is going to work this time, when he’s made the same post multiple times before. It’s not going to work magically this time when it didn’t before.

Of course it might not help. Nothing is 100%. There are some bad therapists. But it sounds to me like his situation isn’t getting better.

6

Thanks. I’d like it if we didn’t relitigate that one here tho I may have asked for it.

Where I’m coming from — I’ve had so many medical doctors swing and miss (2 x with surgery) with a physical condition that I’m uber cautious. But I guess in the psych realm with behaviour modification/coping techniques there is a sense of best practice.

7

Psychologists, psychiatrists, therapists, life coaches…they’re all humans. And humans aren’t infallible. Sometimes it’s the right avenue with the wrong support staff.

1 Like
8

In the other thread the OP said his wife knew his stepdaughter was a “sociopath” since she was very young. Why wouldn’t someone get a daughter MH help for something this serious? Almost none of us is equipped to deal with something like that. Sometimes the need for counseling is obvious.

Certainly, not “all” cases require counseling, and a lot of counselors (I’ve dealt with them professionally) don’t have it together themselves. Maybe not the majority of them, but a lot by the way I define a lot. That’s by no way a slam on all counselors.

9

My wife and Inhave been to a few therapists to help guide us. Before and after marriage. It has been tremendously helpful. However there was one that I did not like and I told my wife I would not go back to see her. I also gave the therapist my honest feedback.

From the get go I felt she had an attitude towards me. It seemed as if when it came time for me to communicate it was met with a bias.

Two small examples of many:

My MIL is the sweetest woman but has such thin skin. She takes a lot of comments as personal and goes to be in her room to have a pity party (my wife agrees she does this a lot). One time I asked a question to my wife and my MIL overheard and responded (over my wife) with a long detailed explanation that had nothing to do with my original question at all. I said very calmly and friendly “oh; no sorry that’s all great information but didn’t answer my question. I asked…(repeated question).”

She immediately became withdrawn and was awkward for a few hours. It’s exhausting. So when recanting the story to our therapist (to try to find a way to address this better) she told me that I “came across very rude to her and could tell that I probably steamrolled her.” I was taken aback and even my wife disagreed with her. But she was adamant that I needed to do better. The ironic part was she asked my wife a question a few sessions later (about how she could feel less stressed with z, y, z." My wife answered but didn’t address her question. Our therapist said, almost verbatim, what I said to my MIL. I addressed this with her after the session so as not to hijack my wife’s communications. She told me it was acceptable for her because my tone and body language were wrong. I told her she wasn’t there and both my wife and I (who were there) vouched for this. She stood her ground.

A second big issue for me was when I was asked to expand on something that frustrated me with a situation with my wife. I told her that my wife admitted X to me and admitted she wanted to change X and it was difficult for us to navigate those situations when I suggest changes to X…the therapist interrupted me and told me she wasn’t comfortable with me using my wife’s own words as ammunition to attack her. I was dumbfounded. My wife didn’t know what to say either. I told her I wasn’t attacking her. I was explaining the situation where we found ourselves having difficulty and we apparently both want the same thing (to help my wife be comfortable with X) but she is very resistant in the moments to make those difficult decisions. I asked her how I was supposed to communicate what I’d like help with (supporting my wife) when I’m not allowed to discuss the situation. She told me I needed to do better (again) and communicating without attacking my wife.

My wife and I both agreed we would not return. I sent an email with all three of us and got no reply. I just said I didn’t feel comfortable discussing my thoughts and would bow out. We don’t hear back.

I’m not very active on social media but I checked her out and her content seems very anti-male. It was frustrating but we both knew we made the right move.

Our current therapist is very helpful.

Humans are human…even the experts.

1 Like
10

It is definitely a personal fit issue. Sometimes it’s a personality thing, sometimes their focus isn’t your focus (ie different types of therapy).

And you have to want it. Change is hard and you won’t necessarily like what you hear.

1 Like
11

I agree on the personal fit. This aspect is huge. And, some people are just better or more involved in their jobs than others.

I’ve seen therapists about a few issues. Some of them were not great, one was truly fantastic. It takes time to really develop a bit of a relationship with one.

I think with kids there is an added benefit of the therapist being an adult in their corner who is not the parent. Kids naturally push back against their parents, but often listen intently to a coach, a teacher, or other adult authority figure. You could be saying the exact same thing to a kid as a counselor would but it would land differently coming from them.

I think Andrew made a good point. I believe sphere’s take is he wants to try his way or at least exhaust some options before going to a counselor. Andrew’s take is this long history of behavior warrants professional intervention to help guide the best path forward. I think that would be the right call. Sphere admitted he hasn’t had to deal with this behavior in a kid before; I bet there are children specific behavioral counselors who have dealt with this type of personality in a kid 100’s of times.

1 Like
12

Never say always. Or never.

For me, it was broadly useful. Marital counseling during first marriage (still ended in divorce, which was the right answer). More than anything, it led me down a path of realisation. And it helped me to see and understand that my ex had a personality disorder that would not change.

PTSD/vicarious trauma from work (20+ years LE, sex crimes and homicide detective) left me with issues to process. Talk therapy on a somewhat sporadic basis was helpful. I also completed a ketamine assisted group therapy regiment.

All of it was helpful. None of it was a magic bullet.

I’m a fan.

3 Likes
13

Yeah, it still takes a lot of work and a lot of time. But making slow progress is so much better than remaining completely stuck. In my experience my therapists have been really good at getting me unstuck.

1 Like
14

This. Much like children often dismiss the best and accurate advice from mom and dad because they’re “just mom and dad” a good therapist can find a way to give clarity and make options seems more realistic.

I have a patient who is a former couples therapist and she said in her practice she realized that “most” of the time one person wanted to seek help and the other person just wanted to be told they were right.

It’s very difficult for individuals in stress to recognize they may be wrong and that’s ok. Because the other person might not care about who’s right or wrong, they just want the problem addressed. People have a hard time swallowing the “I was wrong” pill.

15

Assuming you’re referencing me, I was doing no such thing. I was venting, and the opinions came rolling in. Which is fine, but let’s not let the narrative take on a life of its own. It was one escalation of a relatively benign consequence of losing scree time we’re talking about. I don’t need vindication to convince me of anything. I never said it was the cure all or that she/we wouldn’t benefit from therapy.

1 Like
16

You said:

And many people are saying it is the wrong approach.

For your own sanity pick your battles or counseling.

17

Right. Thinking out loud and questioning the approach to a particular problem of rule breaking. As I said, no need to reshape a narrative into something it isn’t or misconstrue my position, which is that it’s reasonable to test if she isn’t taking the rule seriously because the consequences have been tolerable, and if that seems to be ineffective then dig into it more broadly and find a therapist who may offer better insight.

Maybe just leave it at that.

1 Like
18

I’d say that is a reasonable starting point that costs nothing but days

2 Likes
19

Therapists don’t have ESP. I think when they jump to conclusions with little evidence it means they are not listening or have fixed ideas about the way things go. We once had a human resources person who claimed she could tell employees just by the vibes they were giving off. Not a counsellor but similar sort of thing

1 Like
20

Caution is good. I always think 2nd opinions in medicine are critical. Seems like most people assume more certainty re: medical issues than is warranted.

I think there’s even less certainty in psych/counseling. Depends a lot more on the practitioner’s training etc. So, finding one that “works” well for one’s issues a good find but there can be more misses than hits along the way.

1 Like