Just curious because I am bike commuting to work and I noticed my legs are really heavy in the morning when I run and at night when I run. Everybody I talk to said it is good to be running on heavy legs but I never get a good reason to why that is.
I talked to a few pros and they said they always try to run on tired legs because it held build endurance. Then it is always followed up with an reminder that injury could happen on over trained legs.
Any help would be great!
I think there is some benefit to occassionally running on “heavy legs” in order to know the feeling and to be confident you can… but i dont think there is benefit to doing it often. Certainly not for all of your runs.
Run before your bike commute. Your legs should be fresh after a good night’s sleep.
Just curious because I am bike commuting to work and I noticed my legs are really heavy in the morning when I run and at night when I run. Everybody I talk to said it is good to be running on heavy legs but I never get a good reason to why that is.
I talked to a few pros and they said they always try to run on tired legs because it held build endurance. Then it is always followed up with an reminder that injury could happen on over trained legs.
there is so much wrong with what you typed that I can’t even begin to begin but I’ll try and I need a study break. But I really hope this is a troll post.
Running on tired legs does not build endurance. Running builds running ability. You increase your running ability bc you are running, it matters not if your legs are heavy/tired or not. To oversimplify things running = being able to run better. I think the pros were jerking you chain.
You are talking to the wrong people, there is no reason to be running on heavy legs other then trying to get a workout in.
Ditto what Desert Dude said.
The “running on tired legs” myth is akin to guys who think that jogging in a plastic suit wil help them lose weight. It actually does the opposite. It makes you tired from other fatigue factors which means you’d tire out before you normaly would.
As runners, we always try to figure out how to be fresh before a workout, not tired. There are only two benefits to running on tired legs; 1) It helps you deal with fatigue mentaly and 2) you can squeeze in a workout instead of waiting until you recover.
Having said that, you rbike commuting is hurting your running…but NOT bike commuting will hurt your bike. You need to figure out which is more important to you (I recently gave up the commute ; ^ ).
do you mean bike commuting in general hurts running? or just the running on tired legs? so if I start bike commuting (planning this whilst kids are in camp) my run workouts won’t be as good??? that seems counterintuitive, particularly when brick workouts are so important for us (we do run straight off the bike…)
Who says Brick workouts are so important? I rarely do them at this point. I also agree that I like “fresh” legs for my runs (increasingly hard to do as the bike miles pour on though). Difficult to achieve that balance.
I think the point is **your **bike commute may be hurting **your **running if you constantly have heavy legs. I’d imagine that at some point, when your bike fitness improves, you won’t have heavy legs on the run anymore.
getting used to the feeling coming off the bike and running is fairly important, show me one training plan or one coach who does not include them. Anecdotally anyone I know who has NOT done them has suffered on the run…
due to work and life I end up going to track workouts without fresh legs but at least one of my runs during the week is on fresh legs…
hard to have fresh legs and work, deal with the kids…
I meant that his bike commuting is hurting his running because its making it difficult to run.
Like Rroof said, bricks are over rated. Anymore it seems like people are only doing a couple before their key races just to get used to the feeling. There’s no phsiological benefit to doing one.
getting used to the feeling coming off the bike and running is fairly important, show me one training plan or one coach who does not include them. Anecdotally anyone I know who has NOT done them has suffered on the run…
They’re probably not doing bricks…but they’re probably not running enough or biking enough or biking too hard.
has this been studied?? as triathletes, the run is the LAST thing we do and I would think that we are better off doing some of our run training on tired/heavy/no fresh legs…given that that is how we race.
isn’t there some data to support you should train as you race?
You are better off running on fresh legs and learning proper technique than running on tired legs and being sloppy.
ok that is fair, technique is important, but we also need to hold that technique whilst tired…
isn’t there some data to support you should train as you race?
I think what he’s saying is that it doesn’t have any physiological benefit. Certainly, someone who has run a few bricks and knows how it feels and how long it will take himself/herself to adjust, will have a distinct advantage over the person who is experiencing that sensation for the first time. However, that advantage is more mental/psychological, not physiological.
I think you have seen the responses. I can show you my training plan laid out by my coach, but that would not be very helpful to you. I have about 1 brick every 3 weeks or so on hard days.
…isn’t there some data to support you should train as you race?
Sort of. I usually like to let the races themselves take care of that. ; ^ )
By that, I mean, if you do 6 tris in a season, the first 5 will be solid workouts preparing you for the 5th. When we train, we always try to break it down so that we do exactly what the body needs to get faster for the goal race. Race experience is great, as are time trials and race simluations. However, more often than not, they are only for psychological benefits. There is nothing that actually happens physicaly that makes the body adapt differently when running on legs that just got off the bike, other than teh fact that you are fatigued. So, a 4 mile run that would normaly be done at 9 min/mile pace is now being done at 9:20/mil epace…which is a lower training load, which means you are getting less work done. There is no physical adaptation to counter this. Its not like the body will improve some other energy system or train different types of fibers that will be useful in a tri and can only be done in a brick workout.
This doesn’t mean that the occasional brick isn’t valuable, only that you don’t really need to do that many.
has this been studied?? as triathletes, the run is the LAST thing we do and I would think that we are better off doing some of our run training on tired/heavy/no fresh legs…given that that is how we race.
isn’t there some data to support you should train as you race?
It’s clear from your posts on this thread that you do not have a great grasp on how to train, you should train the race fast not necessarily train like you race due to a myarid pf physiolgical factors.
The technique you mention in another post is reinforced through training. Training builds fitness. Fitness gives you the ability to run fast off the bike, the technique is there because you have been training, not becasue you have been running on tired legs. Sacrificng your quality workouts to do them on tired legs is just plain stupid. The goal in traithlon is to get from the start of the race to the finish of the race as fast as you can. Why leave time on the table?
Here is a sarcastic post i posted on running on tired legs. I made some serious points in it but just in a smart assed manner. http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=1824380;search_string=scientific%20breakthrough;#1824380
I can give you the names of multiple coaches with multiple athletes who do very, very few bricks, except in races. If you can run, you can run on tired legs, you will just run slower.
“you will just run slower”
That’s called Thompson-speed.
I fully agree with Barry and Desertdude…if you want to run better run on fresh legs…if you are bike commuting, get your run done before the bike commute. It will make your running better AND it will also make your riding harder. Running on trashed legs is asking to get injured. Ride on trashed legs as much as you want…you won’t hurt yourself. For years, I’ve been saying that my best usage of a large block of time is the 1.5 hour run followed by 3 hour hard ride…you get your run mileage in and your 3 hour ride feels like you are finishing a 6 hour ride…best of both worlds for time limited guys…flip it around the other way and the quality of the 1.5 hour run sucks and it takes forever to recover from that workout vs the former.
has this been studied?? as triathletes, the run is the LAST thing we do and I would think that we are better off doing some of our run training on tired/heavy/no fresh legs…given that that is how we race.
isn’t there some data to support you should train as you race?
It’s clear from your posts on this thread that you do not have a great grasp on how to train, you should train the race fast not necessarily train like you race due to a myarid pf physiolgical factors.
Wow I know I am new, but think I have SOME grasp but thanks for the put down - that is truly helpful
The technique you mention in another post is reinforced through training. Training builds fitness. Fitness gives you the ability to run fast off the bike, the technique is there because you have been training, not becasue you have been running on tired legs. Sacrificng your quality workouts to do them on tired legs is just plain stupid. The goal in traithlon is to get from the start of the race to the finish of the race as fast as you can. Why leave time on the table?
so do you just skip workouts on days you cannot run/bike/swim first thing? except for professional triathletes that does not leave much training time.
Here is a sarcastic post i posted on running on tired legs. I made some serious points in it but just in a smart assed manner. http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...reakthrough;#1824380
yes I remember that thread. picked up the smartass from the beginning.
I can give you the names of multiple coaches with multiple athletes who do very, very few bricks, except in races. If you can run, you can run on tired legs, you will just run slower.
***my coach has added about one per week started 2 weeks ago with them continuing through the season - but they are done as 15min zone 4 bike to all out half mile sprint on track repeat 4 times. ***