Video description (edited):
Are road hookless wheels safe?
In this video, SILCA’s Josh Poertner explains why he believes hookless road rims:
offer no improved aerodynamic benefit,
carry tubeless blow-off risks, and
push the limits of ETRTO safety margins.
He also responds to the cycling media coverage following his Marginal Gains Podcast statement that hookless road rims are a “scam.”
Josh’s claims (road use):
• No Improved Aerodynamic Benefit: No measurable real-world aero gains over hooked rims; in some cases, aero performance is worse.
• Safety Risks: Tire blow-off risk at pressures as low as 78–80 PSI, with narrow safety margins and tire/rim compatibility concerns.
also covers: • The tire width vs. rim width rule (Rule of 105, ETRTO guidelines) and why it matters
• [asserts] the need for at least a 5mm tire-to-internal-width gap for safer hookless road use situations
• Tire sizing inconsistencies between brands that complicate safe fitment decisions by consumers
Watch the full Marginal Gains Podcast episode where Josh made the attention-getting statement here: link
Just to add some data to this, we’ve also found no improvement in aero with hookless rims. Here’s a bit of data from an upcoming wheel we’re releasing, hookless and hooked version:
I’m guessing a good clarification for that graph would be how you made it hookless; did you remove the hook (making a wider internal width and hence slightly wider tyre), or did you fill in material below the hook (same internal width and ~same tyre width)? I’m guessing the former since the test would not be super relevant if the latter…
We kept the tyre bead in the same place internally, there’s a tiny tiny change to the lower corner inner radius when you do that for the hooked version but for the hookless obviously we removed the hook. Basically we did what we would do if we were making a hookless version of the wheel, aha
Yes. CO2s are lighter, much faster, and never die from sitting too long in a saddle bag. At $1 each, I will never get enough flats to make them more expensive than a micro inflator. They are also great for seating a tubeless tire. The only real downside I see is that you can’t fly with them to a race.
My muc-off is my race morning pump. And inflates my tire from flat to full is 27 seconds.
It’s also the one of the most accurate psi gauges I have.
I got tired of buying CO2 charges at races and the leaving them there.
Full disclosure, I do keep one in my bag and backing. But my micro inflator stays with my onboard storage. I’ve found it holds a full charge for 6-7 months.
I think we are losing sight of the big picture about road hookless rims, especially for TT or Tri where maximum speed is, or at least should be, #1.
We’ve been going back and forth here for a month over the original PodCast. Then came the YouTube video, which puts this in a whole different light - 49K views in 3 days…and love him or hate him, Poertner is not perceived as a fringe YouTube wacko. On top of that, it looks like UAE abandoned this technology for this year’s TDF winner.
IMHO, the only way forward for maximum speed road hookless is for a manufacturer to market a road hookless tire with a no compromise “real” hookless bead that has superior performance to existing tires. That means the tire will probably not be backwards compatible with hooked rims.
I agree but it’s a very difficult - if not an impossible ask. The costs and development for a wheel company to get into the tire manufacturing business is a big lift. Most of the companies that athletes think are wheel manufactures use contract manufactures - even many of the big ones.
There are a few companies (that I know of) that have their own tire that is marketed as matching their wheel(s). In reality, one would go to an existing tire manufacturer and say - I like your current “X” tire, I want my name on it, I’ll purchase “x” volume if you will allow me to do that and pay for the mold change so my name is on it - will you do it? The volume of tire purchase required are high and that is for an existing tire.
To get them to develop a new design with your name on it is a very big lift - maybe some company will pony-up.
Probably easier to just admit the wheel is the problem.
Fair enough, then if you folks aren’t sponsored by the likes of Enve like I might have misread, then it is beyond me why you keep pushing such a flawed technology.
Look man… you can think what you want. But every time you log in to the website and have conversations with anyone. Be a greatful for the companies that allow that to happen…
I respectfully would venture that while I don’t share that posters aggression about the topic, I agree with what is being said in a general sense. I think the consensus here generally is that this websites admin has been a staunch and unrelenting supporter of hookless for a while, and does not seem to share (or at times, even recognize) the rest of the community’s uneasyness about road hookless given recent developments. The sites wheel brand partnerships cast a curious light over that phenomenon, and in the absence of a no BS discussion about it (which I haven’t seen, but point me to it if I missed), begs the question of why you guys don’t seem to share the opinions the rest of us do.
I’m not saying you’re bought and paid for, I dont think it’s like that, but personally I think it is at the very least, a relevant detail.
I dont know… I think we report the facts… and I think a lot of people here want us to join in the aggression towards something.
I mean this biggest issue here on this forum is that some people REALLY want to ride 25mm tires ( which in my opinion is sort of dumb ) But hey if you want to dream about 3 watts…Dream big.
What we have learned is that ROAD hookless only works with 25mm tires when all the stars align. So either buy the wheel and the tire that works or dontt. Lots of choices to choose from.
To me hookless is a somewhat new tech that has come a long ways and people tend to think of the major issues with the past not so much the current. It’s got limits and like anything if you want to break those limits… Shit can go wrong. Just like when you over tighten a carbon post or forget to use graphet paste on a carbon to carbon seal.
Some people here claim that companies that have claimed things that they havent really claimed as well.
We have a lot of really smart people on this forum and some of those people that seem to want us to disregard hookless as anything good, they also seem to have person interests that are in conflict… ( Which I find interesting)
At the end of the day. If you follow the rules of hookless you’re fine… some people just simply dont like those rules… Well Im sorry but we didnt make them and good for them LOTS of other options for wheel and we talk about those just as much.
Shimano HED Im still waiting on @dkennison to send me his new 100mm wheels.
Cadex, Zipp, Enve are all partners but they also make more things then just wheels… They are great companies that care deeply about making cool shit for people to ride. Do whats best for you… But dont ask us to get MAD about something we have looked at and aren’t mad about…
Not a single one of those companies are forcing you to buy them so if you dont like the tech… dont buy it.
We will continue to talk about everything we can get our hands on…
