High School texas Football - attack on ref WTF

The Coffee Shop
81

I officiated football for a few years…from 6-7 year olds all the way up to junior ball (18-20 but not in university).

One of the main reasons that I got out of it (besides so many games being on Sunday, when I wanted to watch NFL) were the parents. The sideline abuses that I received were almost always from parents. I had very few issues with players…but I had many with parents (and to a lesser extent, coaches…but they usually smartened up when you banged them with bench team misconduct).

In the years that I officiated…never once was targeted by a player (unless they were so bad that they missed entirely) but was at a field where officials from another game got jumped in the parking lot after the game (by players). Charges were laid against the players…if I remember correctly, they were in that 16-17 year bracket. Don’t recall what happened to them afterwards though.

82

I think its generally a good idea to keep criminal charges out of it when it involves two players who are willfully engaging in a physical sport against one another. Clearly football, wrestling, and lacrosse fall into this, but I’d even add cross country, as there could be some jostling for position, elbows, tripping, etc.

If you were to, however, hit a tennis player in the head with your racket after the ball was out of bounds, that is, IMO, assault.

Likewise, attacking a referee is assault, and warrants criminal charges. Now, some here will argue that is doesn’t, but some have also argued that there’s nothing wrong with running a full press against a bunch of mentally challenged girls when your team has a 140 point lead.

83

I officiated football for a few years…from 6-7 year olds all the way up to junior ball (18-20 but not in university).

One of the main reasons that I got out of it (besides so many games being on Sunday, when I wanted to watch NFL) were the parents. The sideline abuses that I received were almost always from parents. I had very few issues with players…but I had many with parents (and to a lesser extent, coaches…but they usually smartened up when you banged them with bench team misconduct).

In the years that I officiated…never once was targeted by a player (unless they were so bad that they missed entirely) but was at a field where officials from another game got jumped in the parking lot after the game (by players). Charges were laid against the players…if I remember correctly, they were in that 16-17 year bracket. Don’t recall what happened to them afterwards though.

I’ve been a high school basketball official for 30 years. In most cases it’s the parents who are idiots. It’s also the main reason I became a ref and not a coach. People ask me why I don’t coach all the time and I give them this reason, if I’m a coach and a parent calls to give me shit, I pretty much have to take it. As an official if a parent calls me to complain I hang up and call the cops to file harassment charges.

84

I don’t have facts, I simply have the words of people I consider very good friends, who are hispanic, and have told me about these events. To them, this is nothing new and no surprise that racist remarks were said.

If you read my post, you’ll see that I dad I did not condone the students actions. They were wrong, and should be held accountable. But I can still empathize with these kids. Racism against Hispanics in Texas is rampant. I’m sure they had a lot of emotions going on.

I’m not trying to prove anything. I’m simply providing another point of view, so that people not familiar with the situation can have a little more of the whole picture.

And unless youre a hispanic, you probably wouldn’t hear anything about racism in the hill country. I am as white as it gets. I didn’t know the full extent until I lived here for several years and befriended some wonderful people , to whom racism is a daily occurance. It’s very sad, in my opinion.

I have a hard time believing that is happening here. Can officials make comments to players, yes, we do it all the time but it would be hard to get away with saying something racist and not having a bunch of people hear. Do you honestly believe the schools would continue to hire these officials if they had a history of making racist comments on the field? If it comes out that he made racist remarks, discipline him for that but it does not take away from the criminal act of the two players, as you have stated.

Edit to correct some language

85

That could be the case, kind of like the telephone game. What is said from the first person can be very different from what the last person in the game hears on the end of the line.

Here is one article that does mention the kids claim to have been called racist names. http://www.sacurrent.com/Blogs/archives/2015/09/08/jay-high-school-football-players-may-face-criminal-charges

I’m interested to see if anything more will come to light, but I’m doubting anything will.

86

Do you really believe that the ref wasn’t assaulted or are you arguing for the sake of arguing?

Oh he was assaulted and battered. I think the kids should be punished and severely, I just don’t think criminal charges are the way to go for an act of passion in a sporting event. (I know I know what about XY or Z situation? Each situation is specific and maybe I’m being soft here) Suspend them from athletics forever. Anger management. Community Service.

As to the rest of the spinal fracture stuff. I didn’t start it, I just said show me where getting blindsided like that has resulted in cervical fracture like used in the example. I don’t like apples and oranges comparisons.

I tend to agree with you regarding the criminal charges. Definitely would take blindside hit over hit with baseball bat. Two or three even.

87

News is reporting that the kids have been suspended from school and the team, and that one of the coaches has been suspended, pending allegations that he told the kids to “make the ref pay.”
.

88

News is reporting that the kids have been suspended from school and the team, and that one of the coaches has been suspended, pending allegations that he told the kids to “make the ref pay.”

Here’s a link to an article that states that. Also says that the school district is filing a complaint that the official used two racial slurs during the game.

http://www.foxsanantonio.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/john-jay-incident-assistant-coach-placed-leave-15735.shtml#.Ve81j02FNCo

89

He wasn’t hit that hard.

Does that matter?

It certainly matters as to the range of possible charges. E.g. simple assault vs. aggravated assault or whatnot.

90

I’m not a big fan of criminal charges even for this. Lifetime suspension obviously and some sort of school punishment, but criminal charges is a bit too extreme.

How would you feel lif these same 2 players tackled and spears the referee in the parking lot after the game?

Would you think criminal charges would be appropriate then?

Yes

91

I’m not a big fan of criminal charges even for this. Lifetime suspension obviously and some sort of school punishment, but criminal charges is a bit too extreme.

How would you feel lif these same 2 players tackled and spears the referee in the parking lot after the game?

Would you think criminal charges would be appropriate then?

Yes

That makes no sense. So attacking the a (non-competing) person on the field during the game warrants a suspension but doing the same thing off the field 5 minutes later should lead to charges.

92

Do you really believe that the ref wasn’t assaulted or are you arguing for the sake of arguing?

Oh he was assaulted and battered. I think the kids should be punished and severely, I just don’t think criminal charges are the way to go for an act of passion in a sporting event. (I know I know what about XY or Z situation? Each situation is specific and maybe I’m being soft here) Suspend them from athletics forever. Anger management. Community Service.

What about the guy who shoots his wife and lover when he comes home early and finds them in bed? Assume he just injures them both. Anger management? Community service?

This was a planned, calculated, organized attack on the ref.

If I remember correctly that’s an affirmative defense and therefore no punishment (if proven).

93

I think the kids should be punished and severely, I just don’t think criminal charges are the way to go for an act of passion in a sporting event.

I’m not sure it’s clear either a.) why you think this was an act of passion, rather than a carefully planned and executed assault, or b.) why passion has anything to do with whether or not criminal charges should be filed.

There’s a reason why the phrase “crime of passion” has the word crime in it. Passion doesn’t negate the fact that the action was criminal.

But it does negate the punishment and conviction. As to why it was passionate . . . .They were jacked up on the football field in the middle of the game.

94

I’m not a big fan of criminal charges even for this. Lifetime suspension obviously and some sort of school punishment, but criminal charges is a bit too extreme.

My dad officiated high school (and Div 3 college) football for 40 years. If these two did this to my dad, I would make it my mission in life and use every resource at my disposal, including my minions of associates and my law enforcement connections, to ruin their lives.

If I was a school official in that district/area, I would kick them off the team, ban them from any team in the region, for life, push for criminal charges, and shut down the football program for the rest of the year. You have a bad environment on that team. Shut it down and let peer pressure/outrage work its justice as well.

Even if your dad wasn’t harmed?

95

What if they’re seniors i.e. 18? They can only be tried as adults.

Then they’re tried as adults. Mere prosecution won’t ruin someone’s life, and sometimes it’s necessary for them to learn the lesson.

I have a friend that was killed while riding is bike Hit by a high school senior going 80 mph in a street race. High school kid was plead guilty to felony vehicular manslaughter, 90 days in jail and three years probation. While trial was pending, he was able to graduate, start college, and play on his college’s soccer team. Judge even gave him permission to travel out of state to a game. As far as I know, he’s served his time and is back in college He will graduate and be just fine. (In fact, I just checked, he missed at least a year of college, but was back on the soccer team last year and probably will be again this upcoming year.)

In fact, I’m quite bitter about that case, and how light the sentence was, but I also recognize that kids do stupid things. They should still be held accountable, and if the conduct is serious, and I think assault on a ref is serious, the should be held accountable through the criminal justice system – juvenile justice if appropriate. But the goal for kids should still be more corrective and rehabilitative than getting retribution.

When’s the last time you filled out a job application? A lot of the questions involved have you ever been arrested/ convicted? The example you use I actually agree with you.

Well, there is the “ban the box” movement.

Criminal prosecution doesn’t always mean a conviction. And there are diversion programs that, if completed, can keep the criminal record clean. And I don’t know about TX law, but you can get convictions expunged.

I get questions from employers all the time about what to do when they see an otherwise good candidate with a criminal conviction. Usually, the context is a single, isolated incident that notwithstanding is somewhat serious. (They generally don’t care about a single minor conviction, such as underage drinking.) Most will evaluate the circumstances, look at what has happened in the intervening years, and make a fair decision. In my experience, if you’re dealing with a mature, community and socially minded, college graduate, something stupid they did in high school or their freshman year of college won’t have much of an impact. In fact, people really like stories of others who turned their lives around.

I’ve seen have you ever been arrested on some applications and if you have the choice of between been arrested/convicted or not QED I’m guessing the latter gets the interview.

96

The reason the two battered the referree when they did, is because they were apparently confident that there are enough non-critical thinkers like windywave out there who would write it off as a ‘sport incident’ (the ref was a “participant,” Really?) and not the blatant criminal act that it was. I think they’re learning the hard way that the majority saw it for precisely what it was.

97

News is reporting that the kids have been suspended from school and the team, and that one of the coaches has been suspended, pending allegations that he told the kids to “make the ref pay.”

If that’s true then the calculus changes and it’s charging time.

What no one has discussed (and I’m curious about) is does Texas have a law protecting referees (IL does)? That is the only law I would feel comfortable having them charged under.

98

The reason the two battered the referree when they did, is because they were apparently confident that there are enough non-critical thinkers like windywave out there who would write it off as a ‘sport incident’ (the ref was a “participant,” Really?) and not the blatant criminal act that it was. I think they’re learning the hard way that the majority saw it for precisely what it was.

You really think all of that went through their mind? Kids are fucking geniuses then and wasting that brain power on the football field. Getting suspended will be good for them: more time to study.

99

Do I think they attacked the referee on the field, rather than in the parking lot, because they thought they might get away with it there? Absolutely. Without question.

100

Do I think they attacked the referee on the field, rather than in the parking lot, because they thought they might get away with it there? Absolutely. Without question.

Like I said their Machiavellian minds need more time to study since you ascribe them genius level intelligence.