Guns in the states

Lavender Room
121

You need to go back and re-read each of my posts in this thread. You are arguing things that I have simply not said. And in that vein you are missing the context and nuances of my discussion as it was introduced in this thread. And ultimately the take home message.

And a point I think bears repeating; simply because something happens more frequently in an area doesn’t mean it is necessarily likely to happen. More likely than another area? Sure, relatively. But likely in general? No not necessarily.

I don’t care how many more shootings are in the US. It is not likely to happen to you nor is it likely enough to tell a visiting tourist that “we are due so keep your head down.” The hyperbole is rampant.

122

My original response was a simple one.
The poster said there was as much chance of being shot as there was of being killed by a shark.
I pointed out there was a vast difference.

Please cut and paste my quote where I discussed the shark attacks. And then please show me where I said the probabilities of each were the same.

I’ll wait…

123

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/how-properly-destroy-firearms

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-gun-became-integral-to-the-self-identity-of-millions-of-americans/#:~:text=Over%20the%20past%20150%20years,being%20implements%20of%20self-defense.
.

124

What weirds me out as a Canadian is when you go into a pharmacy in America and there is a security guard (who sometimes looks a bit sketchy) carrying a handgun. Makes the pharmacy not seem particularly safe.

125

I’m just trying to show you the legal way to destroy a firearm.

Some people have cut the frame or receiver with a bandsaw or a hacksaw. And I have even seen someone simply cut the barrel off of the receiver and thought that they had destroyed the rifle. According to the law, they are still firearms. If you throw them in the garbage after simply cutting them, you could be arrested.

Be safe and melt them down, cut them three times diagonally with an acetylene torch, or use a chopper/crusher that will grind them into small chunks.

126

What weirds me out as a Canadian is when you go into a pharmacy in America and there is a security guard (who sometimes looks a bit sketchy) carrying a handgun. Makes the pharmacy not seem particularly safe.

Banks have armed security. Money trucks have armed security. Politicians have armed security.

The presence of a gun doesn’t necessarily mean some place isn’t safe; sometimes it does, yes. But sometimes, dare I saw most times, it simply means that something important exists that people have been tempted and may be tempted to resort to violence over and it is necessary to protect.

Last time I was in Canada was for the other forum event. Do banks in Canada have armed guards? Are Canadian money trucks and politicians transported/protected with armed guards?

Also ETA I work in healthcare and I’ve not once seen a pharmacy near me (I go in often for supplies) protected with armed guards. That is my two local privately owned pharmacies and the chain ones (CVS, Rite Aid etc). I even remember pharmacies in NYC and they didn’t have armed guards. I guess it depends on the area and history of robberies of controlled substances. So basically like we’ve been saying, certain situational nuances will dictate quite a bit.

127

Never seen an armed guard at a bank here in Canada. My local bank has a 75 year old man in a vest that says “Security” and definitely could not lift, never mind fire, a gun. I believe armored cars for bank pickup do have an armed guard but not certain.
Our politicians have security detail and are likely armed. However I ate dinner next to our ‘first lady’, Trudeau’s wife, at a local bistro and all she had was her girlfriends and two serious looking guys in dark suits. It was a packed restaurant and my chair was bumping into hers! But expect security level depends on where and when etc.

128

Never seen an armed guard at a bank here in Canada. My local bank has a 75 year old man in a vest that says “Security” and definitely could not lift, never mind fire, a gun. I believe armored cars for bank pickup do have an armed guard but not certain.
Our politicians have security detail and are likely armed. However I ate dinner next to our ‘first lady’, Trudeau’s wife, at a local bistro and all she had was her girlfriends and two serious looking guys in dark suits. It was a packed restaurant and my chair was bumping into hers! But expect security level depends on where and when etc.

Perhaps they just aren’t obvious? A cursory search just brought me to a security site that alluded to the mandate for armed security at banks in Canada. No clue as to the truth so I will withhold linking until I can be more comfortable with the source.

Regarding Trudeau’s wife, those two dudes in dark suits were most assuredly armed. And well-trained: and probably more around out of site…or maybe not.

129

Banks have armed security. Money trucks have armed security. Politicians have armed security.

In Oz: no, generally no, and no.

There simply is not the expectation of gun crime that you have in the US. Not even close.

130

I’m about 100% certain the only armed guards are for money transfer/armoured vehicles, not for day to day bank operation/protection.

Regarding Trudeau’s wife, I don’t doubt the dark suits were armed. And yes, there were two SUVs outside which we assumed were for her.

131

DSW telling a visiting foreigner that they should keep their heads down to avoid getting shot because it’s likely is akin to telling someone going in the ocean that they’re probably going to get bit by a shark.

Both of the scenarios are possible because shark attacks and mass shootings happen. However the likelihood of both are quite the opposite of what he and you are now suggesting.

Fuck outta here with that shit.

I can’t be any plainer.
Maybe what you wrote is not what you meant, but I can’t help that.
Comparing the chances of being bit by a shark (2 deaths in 2023) against the chances of being shot in a mass shooting (604 in 2023) is a gross misstatement.
I simply pointed that out. You added murders and vehicles as a justification. I made no comparison of those, but it raised the odds even higher.

If you had said “struck by lightning” (14) it would have been closer, or perhaps “falling down the stairs” (12,000) or just falling over (46,000) but you said sharks.
How many more times do I need to explain this?

132

I pointed out there was a vast difference.

Quantititatively there might be a difference.

Qualitatively - in terms of things to worry about - not very different at all. Neither is something to worry about for a largely law-abiding visitor to the U.S.

Though - anecdote - I’ve been around guns my whole life. Never felt at risk.

One open water swim session I was in my car at 5AM, felt tired, so went back into the house and back to bed. Someone got killed by a shark on the swim I skipped. (didn’t know the victim). I felt like I dodged one there.

133

How many more since 2015?

😏

My next race is in the rowing basin for the 1976 Olympics…so I only have to worry about the sewage…and the occasional rat.

134

Mass shootings are incidents in which several people are victims of firearm-related violence, specifically for the purposes of this article, a total of four or more victims. A total of 754 people were killed and 2,443 other people were injured in 604 shootings. Wikipedia

Worldwide, the U.S. once again took the No. 1 spot for the most unprovoked shark bites in 2023 with 36 confirmed cases

Real facts are always fun.

I’m not sure what that has to do with my posts…?

Facts are fun. As is context. As is data normalization.

Remember he’s another Canadian

I’m witholding words and judgement on what he is until I get his next reply.

Apparently the **US had 36 shark fatalities **in 2023 which means my comment about it being a low probability is inaccurate…

An “unprovoked shark bite” does not equate to a fatality. Most years would pass with documented global shark bite fatalities in single figures.

135

DSW telling a visiting foreigner that they should keep their heads down to avoid getting shot because it’s likely is akin to telling someone going in the ocean that they’re probably going to get bit by a shark.

Both of the scenarios are possible because shark attacks and mass shootings happen. However the likelihood of both are quite the opposite of what he and you are now suggesting.

Fuck outta here with that shit.

I can’t be any plainer.
Maybe what you wrote is not what you meant, but I can’t help that.
Comparing the chances of being bit by a shark (2 deaths in 2023) against the chances of being shot in a mass shooting (604 in 2023) is a gross misstatement.
I simply pointed that out. You added murders and vehicles as a justification. I made no comparison of those, but it raised the odds even higher.

If you had said “struck by lightning” (14) it would have been closer, or perhaps “falling down the stairs” (12,000) or just falling over (46,000) but you said sharks.
How many more times do I need to explain this?

I’ll give you one more chance to use some reading comprehension to realize I wasn’t comparing the chances of X to the chances of Y.

In no way, shape, or form did I do anything close to what you are saying. I have no idea why you’re going on about lightning strikes or falling down the stairs. I wasn’t trying to compare ANY statistics or find a similar comparison.

What I wrote is straightforward and clear. I can’t help that you dont understand the crux of my quoted post.

Hint: I never compared shark attacks to guns.

136

Mass shootings are incidents in which several people are victims of firearm-related violence, specifically for the purposes of this article, a total of four or more victims. A total of 754 people were killed and 2,443 other people were injured in 604 shootings. Wikipedia

Worldwide, the U.S. once again took the No. 1 spot for the most unprovoked shark bites in 2023 with 36 confirmed cases

Real facts are always fun.

I’m not sure what that has to do with my posts…?

Facts are fun. As is context. As is data normalization.

Remember he’s another Canadian

I’m witholding words and judgement on what he is until I get his next reply.

Apparently the **US had 36 shark fatalities **in 2023 which means my comment about it being a low probability is inaccurate…

An “unprovoked shark bite” does not equate to a fatality. Most years would pass with documented global shark bite fatalities in single figures.

You are correct. But that wasn’t even the point of my post. The point was the sarcasm directed at the mindset of something with such low probability being considered risky.

I suggested that something like a shark attack was low probability and m hatch started taking things out of context and pushing back. Not my fault.

137

No.

DSW telling a visiting foreigner that they should keep their heads down to avoid getting shot because it’s likely is akin to telling someone going in the ocean that they’re probably going to get bit by a shark.

Both of the scenarios are possible because shark attacks and mass shootings happen. However the likelihood of both are quite the opposite of what he and you are now suggesting.

Fuck outta here with that shit.

Are these not your words?

Yes, they are. Care to explain where you think you’re going with this? Because to avoid any unnecessary banter, my position is that things can be more common in one area but still be very low on the probability scale.

With respect to sharks, In the US “a person’s chance of getting killed by a shark is less than 1 in 264.1 million. However in certain situations the risk of a shark attack is higher.”

Thats the same fucking thing we are saying about guns.

In 2023 42,967 gun deaths.
In 2022 42,795 MVA deaths.

115 people die PER DAY in the US in a MVA.

Are you all telling people they should be quivering and kissing their loved ones a final goodbye every time they get behind the wheel? Do you fear for your life and post about it ad nauseum on forums?

So I repeat. Facts are fun. As is context and normalization of data.

Due to government regulation, consumer pressure and industry innovation the number of MVA deaths continues to trend downward. Gun deaths continue to trend upwards as thoughts and prayers are proving ineffective.

To the OP I have not found driving in the US much different than driving in Australia except for the obvious that they drive on the wrong side of the road. Most US drivers are safe and courteous. I have not seen a roadside radar gun or a booze bus since I got here. Petrol is much, much cheaper than in Oz.

138

In 2023 42,967 gun deaths.
In 2022 42,795 MVA deaths.

115 people die PER DAY in the US in a MVA.

Are you all telling people they should be quivering and kissing their loved ones a final goodbye every time they get behind the wheel? Do you fear for your life and post about it ad nauseum on forums?

Due to government regulation, consumer pressure and industry innovation the number of MVA deaths continues to trend downward. Gun deaths continue to trend upwards as thoughts and prayers are proving ineffective.

To the OP I have not found driving in the US much different than driving in Australia except for the obvious that they drive on the wrong side of the road. Most US drivers are safe and courteous. I have not seen a roadside radar gun or a booze bus since I got here. Petrol is much, much cheaper than in Oz.

The trends are irrelevant for my point. As it currently stands the number of gun deaths per year is essentially identical to the number of MVA deaths per year.

Why are the posters who are saying the OP should be concerned about guns not also warning him to be fearful of his 2500 mile driving journey?

If they are afraid of gun violence why are they also not afraid of dying in a car accident?

And truthfully when accounting for suicides, the number of gun-related deaths drops by >50%. This is relevant to the discussion because the we’re talking about the risk of gun violence the OP might experience.

So 390 million guns and 290 million registered vehicles yet MVAs cause twice as many deaths (when removing suicides).

Why are there not the same cautionary tales for getting behind the wheel for this OP?

…maybe because the risk of both is still very, very low…🤷🏻‍♂️

139

DSW telling a visiting foreigner that they should keep their heads down to avoid getting shot because it’s likely is akin to telling someone going in the ocean that they’re probably going to get bit by a shark.

Both of the scenarios are possible because shark attacks and mass shootings happen. However the likelihood of both are quite the opposite of what he and you are now suggesting.

Let’s try and break this down into simple terms.

*…keep their heads down to avoid getting shot because it’s likely is **akin *to telling someone going in the ocean that they’re probably going to get bit by a shark.

Did you write

because shark attacks and mass shootings happen. However the likelihood of both are quite the opposite of what he and you are now suggesting.

Are they of similar or equal chance?
Yes ? No ?

Is getting shot in the USA more or less likely than being killed or bitten by a shark in your mind ?
I am assuming you understand the meaning of the word akin

As for my failed attempt to lighten the mood by suggesting other more frequent but unusual ways to die as a better comparison of relative dangers.
I do apologise, I keep forgetting to use the word fuck when attempting to make a joke to an American.

ttfn

ps Please. Don’t feel the need to respond on my behalf. We have obviously arrived at a point at which neither of us understands the others mental process. Mea culpa.

140

So 390 million guns and 290 million registered vehicles yet MVAs cause twice as many deaths (when removing suicides). //

Did you back out the single car crashes that only killed those occupants to make it a fair comparison there buddy??? If you are going to just throw numbers around, at least make them relevant to each other…