Guns in the states

[s5100e]

that is really sad, I too shot rifles in cadets in school on the rifle team, as well as some minor hunting, but I never owned a firearm. I live in a reality that does not require a firearm for my personal safety. I am sad your reality is different. On the other hand we have a small farm with horses, dog, cat and coyotes. I could shoot a coyote if I had a rifle. That is quite different from fear of assault by a human carrying a firearm! In my reality, there are serious firearms regulations that controls the access and how firearms are stored. I am happy with that.

[jimatbeyond]

I live in Mountain View and have never required an arm for my safety. I don’t anticipate ever having to use an arm for my safety.

We have arms because this country was created with them and we will defend this country from tyranny.

Arms are an inalienable right.

[DavHamm]

@s5100e

I argue quite the opposite. It is everybody’s right not to live under the tyranny of gun violence. Proper gun control in 6 of the G7 countries works and I see no evidence of this so called tyranny. Lots of people own firearms in a safe and reasoned manner in those countries, just not for the purpose of shooting another human. If you talk about protecting friends and family if it is not from wild animals then it must be other humans, hence you must intend to use said firearm against another human. In those other G7 countries (and in general the rest of the advanced societies), people do not worry that every other human on the street may be carrying a concealed or any other form of firearm so there is no reason for this fear in a general sense. It is rare for firearm deaths that are random, of course it is not unheard of, but much less likely. When such terrible events occur, there is often a significant review of why the system meant to protect citizens failed.

In the case of random firearm violence the statistics are clear, the US is an outlier and if you can not join the dots… I feel sorry that you must be relegated to live in fear.

I would love to see a survey, but I don’t think the vast majority of American’s live in Fear, this is a Euro viewpoint. I can tell you the only time I think about gun violence in America is when I am on this forum. In day to day life it never crosses my mind, even if I see someone carrying a weapon.

Random shooter, is just a car accident or any other of hundreds of random ways you can get hurt or killed throughout your day, and like all of those, I don’t really live in fear of them or think about them.

[DavHamm]

@Yeeper

@philly1x

@Yeeper

Gun violence is no more preventable than car accidents.

And this is where you live in some alternate reality funded NRA talking points on Fox News.

Considering I have never paid a dime in NRA support and don’t listen to or watch Fox that’s a real neat claim.

I once claimed, on this forum, that racism will always exist and you’ll never be able to get rid of it, I was called a stupid mother fucker.

If we can have a discussion that outlines realistic means to eliminate 430 million guns then I will change my opinion. Until then, a harsh reality is that guns will continue to exist in this country and there for gun violence will exist.

We can talk all we want about global warming and how bad the cars and planes are and how beneficial it would be to eliminate them. However the reality is that, even with the electric car improvements, we are not going to be rid of the gas and the planes. Therefore everything else that accompanies them, the good and the bad, will continue to exist.

What is wrong with acknowledging this and suggesting we alter the arguments to account for that?

Well I will use your own anology, there has been a lot done over 50 60 years to reduce car accidents and to make the ones that happen less severe. So as we have proven historically many many car accidents can and now are prevented and so to can many instances of Gun Violence. Will car accedents get to zero, maybe some day but not in my life time.

I would say we could make bigger faster gains in reducing gun violence now than we can in slowing car accidents since we don’t have the 50 yrs of picking off the low hanging issues like we have in car accidents. So I think there are some easier steps to take to make bigger gains in Gun violence they wont get to zero but we can lower the occurance just as we have with car accidents.

[DavHamm]

@Yeeper

@DarkSpeedWorks you just proved my point. The govt didn’t eliminate airline crashes by eliminating the aircrafts. They drastically reduced them and improved air travel through legislation and enacting change within air travel.

It’s not realistic to eliminate all guns. So saying we can reduce gun violence by eliminating guns is like saying eliminate air travel risks by eliminating air travel altogether. Wasn’t gonna happen. So let’s talk about some drastic measures we CAN take.

Now this we can agree on.

and cause of the 3 reply rule I’ll paste this here.

@Yeeper

@philly1x

“Assault weapons — military-style firearms designed to fire rapidly — are a threat to our national security, and we should treat them as such,” Biden wrote in his weekend op-ed. “Anyone who pretends there’s nothing we can do is lying — and holding that view should be disqualifying for anyone seeking to lead our country.”

The U.S. Once Had A Ban On Assault Weapons — Why Did It Expire? : NPR

Sure we can ban “assault style weapons that fire rapidly” however in terms of “what can be done” this would help reduce a minuscule amount of gun deaths in terms of total gun deaths.

People discuss assault weapons and ARs like they are the biggest issue. In 2022 handguns we’re reaping single for 14x more deaths than rifles. And knives/cutting/stabbing was 3x more than rifles.

So yes we can take the parroted “ban assault weapons” approach but that’s not going to make an impact on overall numbers.

I’m more a fan of taxes, mandating storage and proof, random checks, large fines and harsh sentences, mandated trainings, mandated mental health screenings, zero tolerance with associated violence etc.

Personally I think that would have a far greater impact on reducing gun violence and death than banning assault weapons.

I will add Heavy charges and maybe even a mandatory trial if you own a gun used in shooting death. Doesn’t matter if gun was stolen or whatever but you need to prove it took extraordinary measures to get your gun out of your control.

[s5100e]

I don’t suggest that everybody lives in fear of gun violence, but if you have firearms “for protection” and carry one"for protection" that is my generalized definition of living in fear. your situation may be different.In response to the " i have firearms to protect myself and my loved ones…" that is what I am talking about and to.

[svennn]

You call it fear, I call it hedging my bets.

[jimatbeyond]

I consider being armed to be quite calming because I am prepared.

Just like some people like to be prepared for a natural disaster by having a good supply of food, water, gas, and a generator.

[chaparral]

@svennn

You call it fear, I call it hedging my bets.

Like most gamblers, you are not familiar with statistics.

[wimsey]

@jimatbeyond

I consider being armed to be quite calming because I am prepared.

Just like some people like to be prepared for a natural disaster by having a good supply of food, water, gas, and a generator.

This argument is frequently made and I find it unpersuasive.

There’s no risk you have a massive argument with your spouse and in the heat of moment kill her with your food supply.

You don’t get depressed and use your water to spray your brains across the wall of your garage.

Your kid doesn’t steal your generator and kill a bunch of classmates.

Being prepared is fine as a comparator. The unintended consequences of that prep are very different.

[Ham_Sandwich]

@jimatbeyond

Our boys have been shooting since they were about four years old

I can’t imagine trusting a child that young with any type of weapon. That’s just insane to me.

[DarkSpeedWorks]

@jimatbeyond

I consider being armed to be quite calming because I am prepared.

Just like some people like to be prepared for a natural disaster by having a good supply of food, water, gas, and a generator.

There is a lot to be said for being prepared in an effort to avoid terrible outcomes.

Do you spend a far greater amount of your time, energy, and resources in avoiding cancer, coronary artery disease, heart attack, dementia, stroke, alzheimer’s, diabetes, kidney disease, etc.? Because any of those are far more probable and far, far more destructive.

[jimatbeyond]

Some things that can be used to kill your wife…

Knife
Personal weapons (hands or feet)
Blunt objects (hammer or club)
Asphyxiation
Strangulation
Poison / drugs
Drowning

[wimsey]

@jimatbeyond

Some things that can be used to kill your wife…

Knife
Personal weapons (hands or feet)
Blunt objects (hammer or club)
Asphyxiation
Strangulation
Poison / drugs
Drowning

Understood. Let me know when your kid steals a swimming pool and kills my kid with it in his classroom.

[philly1x]

Arguing using logic with someone who treats guns as a religious item/experience, huh?

[jimatbeyond]

A kid can invite another kid over to their house (with a swimming pool) and drown them.

Or they could hit them with a hammer any location that they want

[wimsey]

I am not aware of any morose, bullied kid who invited a bully or their whole class to his house and managed to drown them. I am aware of far too many morose, bullied kids who got hold of a firearm and killed their classmates. You’re arguing dumb hypotheticals against many instances of proven tragedy.

Inviting a kid over to swim takes out the rage and impulsivity, and at least the victim has a chance.

Buy as many hammers as you want. Loan them to your kid. Bring it to school for show and tell.

I’ll take all of that over the current state of gun regulation in this country that you seem single-mindedly focused on and enthused about.

[jimatbeyond]

There was a pretty bad massacre in Japan in 2016 when 19 people were killed and 26 people were injured with a knife.

[wimsey]

I’ll line that up against America’s body count any day.

Signing off for now. Use plenty of Hoppy’s when you clean the Bushmaster, I imagine the semen probably gums up the action.

[Yeeper]

@chaparral

@svennn

You call it fear, I call it hedging my bets.

Like most gamblers, you are not familiar with statistics.

Thats cute.

And like a lot of biased individuals you are not familiar with the concept of a reasonable insurance policy when it comes to individuals protecting themselves.

The lens through which each side views this issue is different.

Last year or sometime around then I replied to you in a thread with recent links about random individuals being attacked in public. I never got a response.

The idea regarding personal safety is one where many individuals (almost half of all Americans) want the ability to defend themselves and protect their own and their loved one’s lives IF need be.

MVA’s cause the same amount of deaths per year.
Alcohol kills >4x more people than guns each year.
Smoke/SH Smoke kills >11x more people than guns each year.

In terms of statistics if your’e not going to take your own life and are not involved in a gang, then the risk of firearms to your own person drops even more than 50%.

The fact that these things are not mutually exclusive, nor are the movements against them, if the goal is to prevent deaths why does the focus and animosity gravitate so much towards the guns when they are a fraction of the issue that alcohol and smoke are given their nature/value.

What is your answer to someone who says they want a cheaper insurance policy to defend themselves?