Besides, what could be better for freestyle than, well, lots of freestyle? 
from a physiological standpoint this is a good idea. swimming specifically will make you a faster swimmer, ie more freestyle more often should make you faster. But when teaching people to swim, each stroke requires and has a different feel for the water so you learn to press on the water differently to go forward, each stroke has timing differences, each stroke has kicking differences. Learning these is often a way to unlock the key to faster freestyle. for example the pull out in breaststroke is a great way to learn to streamline. You push off the wall as you feel yourself slow you pull then have force yourself to become streamlined again, then kick and go right into a stroke on the surface. Your recovery is through or just above the water so you have to learn different ways to get your hands out in front hydrodynamically. Backstroke has a much stronger kicking component then freestyle. Swimming back can help with your free timing and rotation as you have to rotate as well in backstroke. Itās not a swim freestyle only to go faster, although many adults swimming seriously for the first time in their life think it is.
Ken, I donāt get it. I have seen many instructors, all credible. And their criticism is of dinky little stuff. Stuff like āyou let your left hand rotate a little counterclockwise before you catch/pull.ā I donāt do any of the big killers, like lifting to breathe, straight-arming, wide kicking, slapping on entry, legs low, etc. Some truly great swimmers have checked me out and said āHuh, you should be a lot faster. Weird.ā I just love that.
maybe the swimmers donāt know how to tear apart a stroke to fix it. maybe the coach is looking for one or two little things to correct.
You can look good, but being good is not a matter of looks.
back, breast, freeā¦ does fly help free? I like fly free too
silly girl, I was just tired of typing after PMing you all afternoon 
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are you going to answer my question, or leave me to figure it out on my own? oh my, butterfly
fly will definitely help your shoulder enduranceā¦
Shit, Iām ready to give upā¦ A year ago I could barely swim 4x100y @ 1.35 w/whatever restā¦
I did the video taping thing last November and corrected a massive issue w/crossover, swam all winter (I still scissor kick breathing to my left- and Iām a bilateral breather)ā¦
Well, a couple of weeks ago, as a benchmark for USAT Nationals I did 1000y holding 1.29ā¦
It felt like mod-hard pace, but I felt I go and hold that for another 600y if I had to ā¦
Iām in the water 4x a week doing the 10x100m w/20 rest @1.25 and other similiar workouts (6x200(2.55-3.00, 30 sec rest 3x400).
And I just got my ass effing handed to me at Hagg, sure I swam like an asshole, I nearly ran into an oncoming wave of people but something stinksā¦
I did Alcatraz in 35min but I donāt really count that as meaning sh*tā¦ The waves carried us in.
Iāve just been riding my bike this week, too annoyed with myself to get back in the pool.
Iām open to just about anything at this point, and if the suggestion was just to race Duathlon, Iād prolly effing cave.
mmmm butterfly. I think I need to swim tomorrow.
is shoulder endurance like muscular endurance
Iām open to just about anything at this point, and if the suggestion was just to race Duathlon, Iād prolly effing cave.
Not sure the meaning of hyour post but having raced strictly duathlons for three years, I can tell you that it is physically more demanding and tiring to race a duathlon than a triathlon. Itās easier to train for a duathlon then triathlon though.
more video taping might be in order.
ps: the blackwater duathlon which is a qualifier for Duathlon worlds takes place this weekend.
well my coaches always say that the other strokes help your free. But they all say if you can Fly and you are fast you will be fast in the free!!!
well those are decent times they are just not fast. I think you have to swim more at a faster pace.
well fly puts more pressure on your shoulders. doing fly will put more pressure on your shoulders, and perhaps allow your shoulders to keep working harder for longer, ie allow your muscles to work harder for longer aka increase muscular endurance.
i am sure that one of those scientific types will pipe up and say that is wrong though and proceed to give a 5000 word diatribe on what muscular endurance is. but the fact is that when i did lots of 100/200 fly sets in the pool my freestyle endurance improvedā¦and many solid 200 flyers are very solid middle distance freestylers as well (phelps, danyon loader, jedyrijack (or however you spell it), hayley lewis, michael gross etc etc)
Iām open to just about anything at this point, and if the suggestion was just to race Duathlon, Iād prolly effing cave.
Not sure the meaning of hyour post but having raced strictly duathlons for three years, I can tell you that it is physically more demanding and tiring to race a duathlon than a triathlon. Itās easier to train for a duathlon then triathlon though.
more video taping might be in order.
ps: the blackwater duathlon which is a qualifier for Duathlon worlds takes place this weekend.
yeah duathlons suck to race! had a windtrainer/track interval session the other weekā¦legs felt dead.
Has anyone ever looked at your flexibility? Just curious as I was often told the same thing. āYou should be going alot fasterā even after a couple underwater taping sessions. Then I had one where I was told to change my arm position a little. Of course I was doing this on the deck and I could not physically make my arm get into the position I was being asked to do. Even with a little exterior help, I.E. the instructor pushing my arm, it was a no go.
Basically I have a whole lot of stretching to do.
~Matt
he heā¦ frustration. I ran xc/track ncaa div II; still not a bad runner currently; Iād prolly run mildly faster in a triathlon if I could ever get the swim on ācruise controlā w/regard to training.
Frankly, I wonder, if like my track days, I need hours, days, months, years of swimming hard intervals similiar to the endless years of track intervals.
I did do an video session about two weeks ago, lots had improved, but key issues were arm recovery, left looks a dutch windmill, right has less issues, but both require endless hours of finger tip drillā¦ Scissor kick was still present but far less extreme.
I reckon I swam about 29min for 1500m at Hagg, that is god-awfulā¦ I thought Iād do more like 25min on a bad day.
If Iām delusional about how that in-pool fitness translates, then Iāll feel relieved and jump back in the water for more.
Now that Matt mentioned it, fly is great for building up not only shoulder strength but also shoulder flexibility.
A basic knowledge of butterfly makes it loads easier to go under breakers in rough water conditions because youāll find dolphin dives easy.
you used āan aerobic setā for both examples; did you mean for the first one to be āan anaerobic set?ā
thanks,
pat
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there is no cooler feeling than being able to do fly effortlessly and relaxed and being able to sustain it. has a completely different feel to it. i am yet to replicate that feel since taking up triathlons!
Besides, what could be better for freestyle than, well, lots of freestyle?
from a physiological standpoint this is a good idea. swimming specifically will make you a faster swimmer, ie more freestyle more often should make you faster. But when teaching people to swim, each stroke requires and has a different feel for the water so you learn to press on the water differently to go forward, each stroke has timing differences, each stroke has kicking differences. Learning these is often a way to unlock the key to faster freestyle. for example the pull out in breaststroke is a great way to learn to streamline. You push off the wall as you feel yourself slow you pull then have force yourself to become streamlined again, then kick and go right into a stroke on the surface. Your recovery is through or just above the water so you have to learn different ways to get your hands out in front hydrodynamically. Backstroke has a much stronger kicking component then freestyle. Swimming back can help with your free timing and rotation as you have to rotate as well in backstroke. Itās not a swim freestyle only to go faster, although many adults swimming seriously for the first time in their life think it is.
A little devilās advocate firstā¦ theoretically, there is still a right/best way to swim freestyle, so instead of doing b/s, etc., to get a different perspective, shouldnāt you just be able to change whatever is wrong w/ your f/s and be just as good? Maybe thatās what you started out with.
A year ago, I gave back and fly a decent go of it, for exactly the reason you cite. Back absolutely screws my shoulder (a hard pop with every pull), and Iām utterly incapable of learning fly kick. I tried really hard, wasting many workouts trying to get even close. Zero progress (yes, I had some pro instruction). Funny thing is that I often find myself instinctively trying to fly kick off the wall. I have no idea why, and just laugh when I do, thinking āWTF was that, you moron???ā
Hell, I canāt even do flip turns. I end up all over the place, including the bottom of the shallow end. And Iāve done thousands trying to get it. The only time I can is when fully fresh, before under any duress. A few hundred in, and thereās no way I can handle going that long w/o a breath. Iāve even tried spending lots of time breathing every 3 and 4 to try to build up to being able to hold my breath that long. Nope. SO FRUSTRATING!
Note: I am no pu$$. I can do a max heart rate test on the bike or in the pool like no one can. This is not a lack of effort or willingness to invest. I think Iām just lame!