Customer intimidation, Elitism and the bike shop experience

Triathlon Forum
1

Several threads have merged together into this inquiry to you guys from me. In the “Girlfriend buys a bike” thread several posters mentioned intimidation or an unwillingness to look foolish as motive for letting someone else do the talking.

In the Nytro thread one poster made the observation that a particular retailer was perceived (accurately or not) by some as elitist.

I know (and fear and regret) that we have alienated our share of customers. My belief (however accurate or inaccurate it may be) is that they judge our selling process as too sophisticated, complex or “over their head” or that they perceive us as being elitist or snobs or only willing to wait on experienced triathletes.

That isn’t the reality at all, but for some, it could be the perception, and that is an enormous problem to us and other retailers who demand a high degree of technical expertise from themselves.

Our sizing and selling process is actually very simple and streamlined. I frequently time the process to see where we are at and we can go from sizing to delivery in under four hours, sometimes under three, with zero compromise in quality control. It is worth pointing out that process includes no less than six written, documented quality control steps along the way. The customer only sees two of those, we see the other four. The end result is a bike assembled and fitted with an attention to detail on par with the military or the space program (at its best).

Now, I would suppose customers would find that attractive, not intimidating. These bikes are extremely expensive, with our average sale hovering around $2000 for bikes, shoes, pedals, computer, etc. That is a lot of money to spend on a bicycle, and I think a customer deserves a very “hands-on” experience for that money. Also, every bike that rolls out of here is a billboard for our store, so they have to be perfect. We can’t afford for someone to pull up next to on of our customers on a ride and say, “Wow, where did you get that bike? it is way too big for you…”

So, the question is, how do we conistently deliver technically responsible, sophisticated service and sales to customers of every experience level with a high degree of quality control WITHOUT it feeling “intimidating” or heavy handed?

I should point out that the customer (IMO) who needs the highest degree of care and attention are the first timers, and those are our “best” customers not onlyin terms of dollars and cents but in terms of earning a customer’s lifelong business.

Suggestions? I take your recommendations seriously and everybody here- Mike O, Mike A, Nate, Mark, Lindsey, Calvin, Craig- all of us read it. Thanks in advance.

2

Tom,

This may be a stupid question, an I apoligize if it is, but is it possible to be fit properly mail order without ever stepping foot in the shop.

If it is possible, do you do this?

3

At this time, we do not have the capability to accurately fit a customer from a remote location. That capability may exist at some time in the future, but does not presently.

To the degree that we wish to maintain a “hands on” approach to fitting, and to be able to effect changes to the bike here in the store with the customer on it, as well as having the final, physical mechanical checks before the bike leaves the store- I am not currently comfortable with doing sizing via the internet or phone.

We have made some exceptions with closeout bikes and used bikes- but we make it clear the customer is responsible for their own sizing. I don;t even like doing that, becasue we run the risk of selling a customer the wrong size bike, or the wrong bike in general.

I feel so much better when I can work with the person in person. When the bike leaves I know I have gone over every nut and bolt and evey aspect of the fit over and over until I know it is as good as it can get.

In general, we are much more particular about the bikes than the customers. That requires a hands on approach so I can sleep at night.

4

Hmmm…for me the best beginning is always a friendly introduction. “Hi, hello, my name is Tom, welcome.” Personally, I appreciate the more direct, immediate business approach, but I don’t necessarily like it (“Hello, do you want to buy a bike?”).

Once the introductions are in order and names are exchanged, then one can get down to business. If someone is actually in the market for a bike, I’d recommend showing your enthusiam for the sport, the science and the art. Ask them how much time they have and explain your fit process. Let the consumer know what she/he is in for in terms of time, physical appraisal and “hands-on” contact. If the person doesn’t have that much time that particular day, offer them what you can and see if they’d like to set an appointment for a future date/time. Also, don’t push your product lines. If there are other local stores that you respect, suggest the customer visit them as well (and give an actual contact name at the store…hell, even a courtesy call would be nice).

I think elitism, at least in my experience, is perceived when one of several events occur: the shop personnel don’t offer a friendly, heartfelt greeting the customer states an upper price point, and the shop belittles it, directly or indirectly the shop doesn’t take the time to ACTIVELY LISTEN to the customer the shop tells the customer her/his ideas are incorrect without explaining why the shop doesn’t take the time to offer simple technical education free from ideo-synchratic/specific language

In terms of environment, some personal favorite LBSs of mine either have a couch or offer coffee, juice, etc during the process. Being able to be comfortable is important–it helps ease the relative pain of dropping a couple/few grand on a bike. Also, when I’m actively shopping, I want to be the center of that particular salesperson’s attention–I don’t like it when they start grabassing with the rest of the employees; that makes me feel somewhat manipulated as if I was a simple mark ripe for the picking.

Finally, if the desired piece(s) of merchandise isn’t in stock, please offer to get it and tell me when you’ll have it. If there are reasonable alternatives, offer them, but don’t push them. Simply explain the details and leave the decision making to me.

That’s most of it, Tom…at least for me.

Scott

5

Hi Tom,

Just got back from a run where I started thinking about the bike intimidation post from earlier.

One suggestion - and I have no idea if its any good or not - would be a questionnaire/info sheet, both online and paper copies in the store. Then the drop-by girl who is intimidated by the process can take it home, mull it over, ask friends/boyfriend about questions, and (hopefully) bring it back either completed or partially completed. Now, many women, myself included, would prefer to just walk through it in the store, talking to a bike guru. But those who are intimidated or nervous about stating what they don’t know, or want to spend more time researching options…this gives them an easy out without losing the business. Personally, I’m never going to spend $2k on a bike without a few trips to the bike shop - I just can’t afford not to. I want to research online, talk to people, test ride, etc. So just because I walk out the door that day, doesn’t mean I’m not coming back to buy that bike - or another one - later.

I do this in an entirely different industry. I manage projects for hospitals where they have to purchase hardware to run our systems. The hardware really depends a lot on the systems they already have - we don’t want them to end up spending extra money on new hardware because we didn’t ask the right questions in the first place. So one “decision” document walks them through and provides spaces to answer questions. It seems a little archaic sometimes, but it allows everyone to be on the same page, and ends with a range of hardware choices - with this as well as with bikes, you can never answer a questionnaire that’s going to land you with the exact answer. But, at a minimum, it can rule out what you ~don’t~ want, and that can limit the field to a more manageable list of choices.

Just an idea.

s.

6

Perfect. Thanks Scott, exactly what I was looking for. I’m printing out your list of recommendations now. We’re not open today but I’m in here tying up some loose ends. I’ll show this to the guys either later this evening at dinner or tomorrow.

I appreciate your input. Now, I really have to go on this run…

7

Ahhh…yes, the run that must be run. Kinda like the bike ride that must be ridden today (perfect weather in SD this afternoon). Unfortunately, I returned from Europe with a nasty resp. infection and I’m not riding, although it gave me the perfect excuse to finally finish a project bike.

Have a good run Tom…I’m with you vicariously.

8

I was the guy who said his wife was intimidated in your shop. You had asked on that thread what about the process intimated her. As you stated above, at the time it was viewed as “too sophisticated, complex, …,” etc.

There were also other factors that went into why we ultimately didn’t get a bike at your store. I had just started riding two months before we walked in your store on a borrowed touring bike with aerobars. I was training for IMFLA. I had instantly fell in love with cycling, and knew that I wanted a bike of my own. I also had managed to talk my wife into test riding a bike with the idea that we could do a lot of cycling together as I prepared for IMFLA and beyond. She got a lot of enjoyment out of her test ride, and decided that road cycling might be something that she would enjoy. We didn’t end up getting a bike at the shop she test rode since it was out of town and they didn’t have anything in her size.

So somehwere around June or July (I can’t remember) we start shopping to get her a road bike. Here is where we made about every newbie mistake you can make. We had been looking at Trek’s during the test ride. So we’ve been “informed” about the Trek 2200 and Trek WSD 2200 by the initial shop that we did the test ride with, all the components etc. We get into your shop and you don’t sell Trek’s. One of the bike’s that was shown to us as a possibility was a pink Cannondale with inferior components to the Trek 2200, and my wife sees the whole fit process going on. So in our mind she’s getting an ugly bike, with “lesser” components, and the shop does all this weird fitting stuff, where everyone else has just asked her to stand over the bike. She feels like she has no idea where she’s going to be riding, or what types of racing, or any of that, it’s initimidating to be asked questions you don’t have answers to, and seems unnecessary. So we go buy a Trek from a local shop (If it’s good enough for Lance, yadda yadda), and get this “sweet” ride for $1600.

So as far as mistakes go, we bought a bike based on looks, components, “false economy” (since the purchase we’ve bought a second set of shoes and a new stem, and we still need to get in your shop to have a fitting done and buy who knows whatelse), in the middle of the summer, and without a big knowledge base of cycling.

Obviously now it’s 1.5 years later and she’s on a bike that I am pretty convinced does not optimally fit her. She would still be intimidated to go to your shop by herself, but she’s definitely come around to the idea of getting everything looked at and possibly getting a new bike and selling the current one (just gotta save up the cash).

I guess I’m not sure that you can really do much to change how this went down, although I’m sure you get a lot of new people in your store similar to us, right in the middle of summer looking for a bike. The problem is that buying a bike is a lot different than anything else you buy. Someone who has never ridden a bike is going to have to take your word for it that fit is very important on a bike, more important than color or components, etc. And also, it’s tough to convince someone who doesn’t know anything about bikes, the value of a good bike shop. If that person isn’t being referred to you, it’s a crap shoot on whether or not they trust or believe you. From our perspective at the time, the best value looked to be somewhere else, and I figured I was smart enough to figure out the fit stuff on my own. As to how I feel about how it turned out - I’m sure someday in the future we’ll be walking in your store a lot more informed and ready to listen to what your sales guys have to say.

As far as suggestions for you and your employees, just be cognizant of the newbie mindset. I’m sure it must be frustrating at times dealing with uniformed people, but buying a bike is a very unique experience (as you are obviously very aware of, however, we were not), and there are a lot of shops that sell bikes the way people are used to things being sold, it’s just natural that those places would feel more comfortable to a newbie.

9

Off the top of my head, here are the behaviors that can lead to a perception of elitism that I observe most often in retail, whether of bicycles or something else high-ticket: Lack of, or poor, interpersonal skills on the part of the sales associate. Folks who don’t smile, greet, and offer help in a friendly manner quickly intimidate customers unsure of what they’re looking for. Nothing can overcome a lack of desire on the part of the sales associate to be helpful. Nothing can overcome communication styles that fall short of warmth and sincerity. So either hire good people or expect failure. Great tri knowledge / accomplishments cannot overcome poor sales skills when serving the average consumer. Failure to help the customer ask the right questions. The VAST majority of customers who walk in the store actually don’t know what questions to ask to make the right purchase decision. An associate that tries too hard to listen actually places an uncomfortable burden on the newbie buyer. Even today, when making the purchase of a component for the first time, I sometimes haven’t done my research when I walk in a store. A sales associate that keeps pressing me to state what I want, when I don’t know the trade-offs I need to make, really frustrates me. Even worse, an associate that starts to make a recommendation before explaining what the factors are really makes me angry. They’re presuming that I’m too stupid to deserve an education. Great service entails quickly determining whether or not the customer knows what questions to ask. If the customer does know the factors, then offer them LOTS of product knowledge so they can make the best choice. If not, TAKE THE TIME to explain the factors that drive a particular product decision (e.g., tires, computers, saddles, nutrition products). Then ASK which of those factors the buyer may find most important. Then HELP THE BUYER PROBLEM SOLVE to get to the best choice. Here’s how I define an elitist salesperson: one who doesn’t respect my intelligence enough to help me understand the differences in products so that I can walk away educated and having made an intelligent choice. The elitist salesperson can fall down in many places: 1) expecting me to know much more than I do, 2) not taking the time to educate me when I don’t, 3) recommending a product without explaining why, or with poor justification, 4) not educating themselves on the products and issues, then using the presumed authority of their position (shop salesperson) to lend credence to their recommendation. Not making it comfortable for a customer to browse the shop. Always let them look around, and offer to help if/when they’re ready. Salespeople who either 1) ignore or 2) follow a customer are going too far in either direction. The best course respects the customer by letting him/her know they’re welcome to browse or get as much help as he/she needs. Final pet peeve: shops that presume that only the products they carry are ones worth buying. Typically, when a shop carries only one brand / version of a particular product, sales associates don’t educate themselves about the alternatives, and when I ask questions, they don’t put their product in the context of what else is available. If a shop thinks that I care so little about what I buy to not explain their offering relative to alternatives, then I perceive it as being disrespectful and presumptuous. Both of these can be seen as elistist if the associate reacts poorly to questions or acts condescending.

Hope at least one of those perspectives was helpful.

10

Tom -

Here is what I percieve as elitism. I go into a LBS with the intent to purchase a $1000 wheelset, when I ask the guy if he can take the cassette of my old wheel and put it on the new one. This is about a 5 minute job or less. The guy tells me its going to cost me an additional 75 dollars for that. Finally purchased the wheelset from a larger bikestore where they did the above job for free in about 3minutes and acted like it was no big deal.

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Tom,

I have a successful business in sales with a sales staff. From my experience, your best bet at not alienating clientele and making customers feel comfortable is through education of your sales staff. And not just on bike stuff, but on sales and interpersonal relationships. Your sales staff needs to be reading the more detailed responses to this thread so that they understand what goes through customer’s heads because they list some very valid points. One important thing for them to learn (generally this can take some experience) is how to graciously pass off a customer to another sales person. Let’s face it, nobody is going to “click” with everybody. I know when I sit down with a customer within 5 minutes if I’m wasting both of our time because there just isn’t a connection. I feel the number one key to a successful sales business is making the customer comfortable with you. After that, it is just working out details and always making sure you always do what is in the customer’s best interest (even if it is not in your’s). You’ve already got one of the hardest part of a successful business tackled…a great reputation which will drive customers through your front door. It’s what you do with them once they get there that will keep 'em coming back.

Andy

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Tom

I agree wholeheartedly with Andy. The knowledge that your salespersonnel have is important but their interpersonal skills are possibly more important when dealing with first-time buyers. A month ago I stopped at a better known tri-shop in my area and overheard a newbie who came in and said that he wanted to purchase a tri bike. The saleperson then launched into a rapid fire series of questions about road riding, tri-ridining, group rides, seat angles, etc. I could tell that the customer was completely blown away by all of this information but the sales guy just kept spewing off more and more crap. He started off showing the guy an old model Cervelo One that had an excellent price then moved onto the Dual where he pointed out the “upgrade” of Profile bars vs. Syntace because they were carbon fibre … say what? I was definitely being nosy but couldn’t help myself due to the proliferation of crap that was being told to this potential customer who didn’t uderstand much of anything that he was being told. I left before their talk came to a conclusion but if the guy ended up purchasing a bike I would be shocked. I remember my first year doing tris when I bought my old Centurian Ironman Expert from a guy that I knew and someone asked me if I was riding clinchers or tubulars … I didn’t have a friggin clue what they were talking about. If they had asked about seatpost angles and carbon whatchamacallits I would have been even more in the dark. Keep the heavy duty technical babble for those of us that ask for it and keep it simple for everyone else.

13

Something I’d like- some sort of “Thursday night coffee and Clif Bars for the Clueless” a couple times of year. Topics to be covered include:

  1. How a tri bike/road bike is different from what you’ve got in your garage.
  2. Pedal systems (What am I Looking for?)
  3. Basic bike maitenance- cleaning a chain, why tire pressure is important, what needs to be greased
  4. Why different bikes cost different prices.
  5. Basics of bike fit- nothing too technical, but get a couple guinea pigs up on the trainer and use them to explain what a good fit looks like, doesn’t look like, and the problems you’ll have if your bike is the wrong size.
  6. What to wear- helmet selection, bike shorts/bibbs, and how bike shoes should fit.

Post a sign in the shop announcing when the absolute beginners meeting is, and also circulate a meeting notice at the local masters/TnT/Danksin/ area tri groups, and the local fitness-targeted newspapers or newspaper sessions.

14

Tom,

I recently left Detroit and while there I bought a high end bike from you and rode with the Wolverines each week out of Southfield. I was in Bikesport every 3 weeks or so for odds and ends and have seen you, Mike and others deal with very inexperienced customers many times. I learned something evertime just listening to you cover things from what type of bike to what type of shoe and why. I have watched you tell customers that thought they were stopping by to buy a bike that there is a process and they need to be fitted. Some seemed disappointed and some seemed to appreciate it. I imagine you lose a few customers but mine fits like a glove and I will never buy another one without going through a similar process. I was recently at the largest bike store in the Dallas area and witnessed a newbie come in and walk out 30 minutes later with a $4-5K Griffen and he was wearing street clothes. I eavesdropped a little and heard the sales guy tell him it was extremely flexible and could be adjusted any number of ways in case it doesn’t fit…I think I like your style better.

15

Tom,
Often times it is the language that overwhelms people. When people ask me to explain what I do (US Marine Corps Infantry Officer), I can run over them with all those acronyms and technical terms. I used to do that a lot. I see the same thing happen in a lot of places. Most of us can get intimidated in a computer store when one of the whiz kids starts talking technical mumbo-jumbo, when all we want is for our mouse pointer to stop disappearing. Its the same thing in a bike shop. The best bike shop owners and employees can talk at the level of the customer. If its someone like me, they can feel free to go into the esoteric values of Campy. The less initiated could care less about having the damping properties of carbon explained in ass-bleeding detail. They want a bike that works. The want to know what kind of bike will work for them. And they want to talk in plain english. They want the kind of service you are selling. They just often can’t explain what it is that they want.

In psychobabble. . .this means LISTEN to the customer. . .don’t just HEAR them.

16

Tom (et al.),

I have to agree with a lot of the stuff here in that the knowledge and interpersonal skills of the store staff is very important. While a number of the posts talk about customers new the sport, you can’t forget that customers have access to lots of information (just ask any doctor about the number of patients who walk in armed with the latest info on medical treatments – we caught a serious drug conflict in my grandfather’s prescriptions thanks to the internet) and are willing to go to make the effort to become a valued customer supporting a LBS.

I think I can illustrate this with my experiences with a LBS (which I no longer deal with).

I made it clear to them early on that I would be in the market for a $5000 bike, but first I wanted them to resurrect my current 10 year old bike. They did a reasonable job installing STI, new tubes, new tires, check the wheels for trueness, new chain, a few other things, and then adjust my fit as best as possible to a tri position. But two weeks after I got it back, the rear wheel flatted just after a race – they had left the 10 year old cracked plastic rim tape in place. When I asked about this, they happily sold me two new rim tapes and never apologised. I’ve dropped almost $1000 there on various items, they might get a $5000 sale but they skimped on $5 of rim tape. I don’t get that.

Also in an effort to build a relationship with this shop, I also did one of their Sunday rides thinking I would do many more. They said it was a nice friendly atmosphere. Not too much hammering. Etc. Everything started out well. The pace was great. The intensity built. Hammering started. Everything was cool. Then the shop employees started running red lights. Not much more needs to be said here. (Incidentally, a cop in an unmarked car pulled over this leading group).

Finally, as I talked to them about components that might end of a the new $5000 bike, I get fed information that ‘differed’ with stuff I’ve read on the Internet (i.e. SlowTwitch, BicycleSport forum, Byrn’s Forum, Manufacturer sites, analyticalcycling.com,…). Examples include things like discs are bad in any wind, HED3s are aerodynamically at their best head-on, powermeters while racing are bad, titanium is the only material that should be used for bike frames, Softrides are bad leading to knee injuries,… Much of this was said in an absolutist tone rather than pointing me to supporting evidence or asking about my source. There seemed to be little interest in educating me or in the possibility of learning from a customer.

I’ve now moved across the street to start dealing with a shop owned by two former employees of this first shop.

As easy as it is to intimidate beginning customers, it’s just as easy to alienate knowledgable customers. Reading and handling individual customers appropriately and quickly seems so very, very important.

Hope the comments help.

Rob

17

Tom-
I’ve been to your shop and I’ve known you for a long time. I’ve seen you in action. You can come across as a maniac. You always mean well it just would scary for a 1st timer walking in your doors.

Soft Sell. Harness your passion. Tone down the NASA stuff.

Think Day Spa.

18

This is probably the most valuable thread I’ve ver been involved in from my perspective and for our business. Thank you guys.

A couple points you guys make that I agree with and these are things we need to work on:

  1. I’m not a people person. Despite my candor and openness on this forum in person I am a virtual recluse. Few people have visited my house, I am shy and can be abrasive. I have very little patience with things and less for people. That is a problem. That said, if a customer is nice to me, chances are 100% I will be nice to them. I gotta work on being nice first. Maybe I’ve been burned too many times, but just the same, no excuse.

  2. I have long searched for some easy, quick, simple method of showing people our process and its value without intimidating them. That would be an enormous compelling reason to buy a bike from us- if they only knew the value of the process. Realisitcally, our process is the only thing we have to offer. You can buy a Felt, Cervelo, Litespeed, QR, Softride, Guru or whatever anywhere. It’s our process that sets us apart. How do we make people see the value in that?

  3. How do we instill in people a knowledge that we are tyrants about qulity control in building bikes? Some people see it, but most don’t. I remember getting a call years ago from a customer who brought his bike home and said, “I noticed you guys chased the threads for the water bottle cages and then greased them before attaching the cage, and that you replaced the square-sided bolts with round button head bolts to make it easier to put the bottle in and out- thank you.” Very few customers ever see those things, let alone see the value in it. People don’t notcie things like every zip tie on a computer installation lined up perfectly and wrapped the same direction. How do we show them that without coming of as snobs or seeming too “Monster Garage”?

At any rate, thank you very much for the input. And that 16 mile run about sucked. It’s 22 degrees out here. Now I’m headed to Taco Bell.

19

Oh. And while I went on about my bad experiences with one shop (see above), I watched someone have a very good experience from the shop I bought my current 10 year old bike. In the middle of a busy, sunny, warm Saturday, the shop owner hopped on his own bike to ride to a nearby customer’s house to change a tube in that customer’s son’s bike (something was stuck or didn’t fit or whatever). It probably took about 15 minutes and the store still had lots of sales people. That level of service impressed me and I continue to recommend that store (it’s just a little far from me now that I’ve moved).

Rob

20

Tom,

Intimidation? Elitism? You mean like that “lingering misinformed dogma” line of yours in the IMWI disc thread? :slight_smile: Ah heck… I’ll cut you some slack…you seem like a good, complicated guy who like bikes alot and loves the sport even more.

Now lets meet in Madison and ride that course and maybe you can change my mind on wheel choice…or vice versa!
Have a good week,

Mark