The difference in overall aerodynamics between TT frames is absolutely minimal, especially compared to everything else. He went plenty fast on it in Oceanside. 2% up or down in his power would have more effect than the difference between most of the top brand frames out there.
Talking with someone directly in the know with Lionel, the TT vs tri bike were not close (12-14 watts) when he tested them against each other.
According to your source, which was faster ?
Tri bike
The difference in overall aerodynamics between TT frames is absolutely minimal, especially compared to everything else. He went plenty fast on it in Oceanside. 2% up or down in his power would have more effect than the difference between most of the top brand frames out there.
Talking with someone directly in the know with Lionel, the TT vs tri bike were not close (12-14 watts) when he tested them against each other.
The testing he did was massively flawed. And proven as such when he went to a proper facility with actual experts. That also didn’t replicate identical positions. It was one fit on one and a different on the other, the frame will have been a tiny fraction of it. If you optimised both they would be remarkably similar except the Speedmax has storage etc built it. The TT has a slight weight advantage.
Based on the information I have, I believe you are referring to a different session done by someone else where the two bikes were also tested. My understanding is this session lead to different results than what was found later down the road during another session.
Yes but that would suggest the homework was not done before signing a deal
I provided feedback on bikes to her coach, I think the deal offered by the non-recommended brand was too good to pass up.
understandable, both sides and other athletes and brands can learn from this.
Thanks but I have plenty of data on those bikes and there’s no where near that difference at his race wattage.
I believe it’s a problem with shorter women and the tri bike. It was designed around Jan as an xl so it can’t be shrunk down to an xs without having to run 650b wheels. Its crazy that someone like Imogen symmonds who is close to 6 feet tall rides the same size frame as someone like Chelsea who is under 5’6â€.
Both mistakes and wrong assumptions from your side.
In an improbable case that the bike wasn’t fitting her, she shouldn’t have run for the money without checking the bike in the first place.
In a more probable case, Canyon had expectations around certain races or promo obligations, and she wanted out. She hasn’t had results since Kona 2022, and Canyon was impatient.
She was 3rd last year at pto Singapore, she won 70.3 Tasmania this year and won IM New Zealand in a course record this year. Also went from 22 to 6th in Kona last year behind all world champs except Laura Phillip. Seems to be ok results to me……
Really important point #2 from An_apple. I’m not a fit expert but I’m a bit difficult to fit because I’m on the shorter end (5’6") with longer torso vs leg length. I got a refitting by dan aka slowman way back and had to do some heavy modifications to get as close to his measurements as possible. I eventually sized down my frame to get a better fit, still requiring some changes to cockpit/aerobar extension and fit is good enough for me but not perfect. Both frames I are felt. I’m sure there’s different brand might get me an even better fit but I’m just an age grouper and fine with what I have.
Agree 100%. Not all height is the same. I’m the max height for the small Speedmax and min height for the medium according to canyons sizing and both felt awful for me. Shorter leg length but longer upper body so I need the stack of the small but reach of the medium. I tried all the aftermarket adapters but they just made the bike handle horribly. I ended up on a 56cm P5 and absolutely love it.
I’d say Chelsea will end up on a Cervelo. That’s my guess!
The difference in overall aerodynamics between TT frames is absolutely minimal, especially compared to everything else. He went plenty fast on it in Oceanside. 2% up or down in his power would have more effect than the difference between most of the top brand frames out there.
Talking with someone directly in the know with Lionel, the TT vs tri bike were not close (12-14 watts) when he tested them against each other.
The testing he did was massively flawed. And proven as such when he went to a proper facility with actual experts. That also didn’t replicate identical positions. It was one fit on one and a different on the other, the frame will have been a tiny fraction of it. If you optimised both they would be remarkably similar except the Speedmax has storage etc built it. The TT has a slight weight advantage.
Based on the information I have, I believe you are referring to a different session done by someone else where the two bikes were also tested. My understanding is this session lead to different results than what was found later down the road during another session.
Yes! We are getting mixed! You’re referring to the recent testing I’m talking about the random track comparisons he did ages ago. My mistake 
I believe it’s a problem with shorter women and the tri bike. It was designed around Jan as an xl so it can’t be shrunk down to an xs without having to run 650b wheels. Its crazy that someone like Imogen symmonds who is close to 6 feet tall rides the same size frame as someone like Chelsea who is under 5’6â€.
Both mistakes and wrong assumptions from your side.
In an improbable case that the bike wasn’t fitting her, she shouldn’t have run for the money without checking the bike in the first place.
In a more probable case, Canyon had expectations around certain races or promo obligations, and she wanted out. She hasn’t had results since Kona 2022, and Canyon was impatient.
She was 3rd last year at pto Singapore, she won 70.3 Tasmania this year and won IM New Zealand in a course record this year. Also went from 22 to 6th in Kona last year behind all world champs except Laura Phillip. Seems to be ok results to me……
If Chelsea is 170cm she won’t be riding an XS so I don’t understand your argument. My wife was 156 and rode XS so no way is 170 an XS. She is more likely to be S/M depending which gives the better fit.
I’d say Chelsea will end up on a Cervelo. That’s my guess!
She is probably travelling today so we should see spy shots in the next 2 days. If I am correct she is in company with some pretty fast people. And no, it’s not a KU or Ventum.
If they are ending their agreement mid-season, then one of them did not hold up their end of the deal, which would likely end the deal. This is 0% about bike fit and 100% marketability. Mutual separation in this case likely means one side of the party demands changes so the contract is upheld, and the other side chooses option b…end of agreement.
If they are ending their agreement mid-season, then one of them did not hold up their end of the deal, which would likely end the deal. This is 0% about bike fit and 100% marketability. Mutual separation in this case likely means one side of the party demands changes so the contract is upheld, and the other side chooses option b…end of agreement.
“0% bike fit, 100% marketability”…that’s a pretty digital assessment of a very analog situation.
I’m not even sure what your first statement means. What is it about the geometry in the larger sizes of the Speedmax that makes it not suitable in the smaller sizes? I can agree that the smaller wheel size in the XS is unpractical but there are other reasons smaller wheels might be a good idea in the smallest sizes.
Anyhow, I went and looked at the pictures from Kona on her BMC and on the Canyon and I can’t see anything that looks completely wrong or stretched out at all. If anything the position on the Canyon “looks” better to me. I recognize that it doesn’t mean it is better for her but even still there isn’t a very big difference in pad reach between the smallest size BMC Speedmachine with the flat cockpit and size S in the Speedmax. If reach was the problem you’re telling me they couldn’t make that work with the semi custom full length supports/extensions on the Canyon? And to imply that might have caused a knee injury? This all sounds very odd to me.
I’m not even sure what your first statement means. What is it about the geometry in the larger sizes of the Speedmax that makes it not suitable in the smaller sizes? I can agree that the smaller wheel size in the XS is unpractical but there are other reasons smaller wheels might be a good idea in the smallest sizes.
Anyhow, I went and looked at the pictures from Kona on her BMC and on the Canyon and I can’t see anything that looks completely wrong or stretched out at all. If anything the position on the Canyon “looks” better to me. I recognize that it doesn’t mean it is better for her but even still there isn’t a very big difference in pad reach between the smallest size BMC Speedmachine with the flat cockpit and size S in the Speedmax. If reach was the problem you’re telling me they couldn’t make that work with the semi custom full length supports/extensions on the Canyon? And to imply that might have caused a knee injury? This all sounds very odd to me.
This is a very valuable opinion I totally agree with
I’m not even sure what your first statement means. What is it about the geometry in the larger sizes of the Speedmax that makes it not suitable in the smaller sizes? I can agree that the smaller wheel size in the XS is unpractical but there are other reasons smaller wheels might be a good idea in the smallest sizes.
Anyhow, I went and looked at the pictures from Kona on her BMC and on the Canyon and I can’t see anything that looks completely wrong or stretched out at all. If anything the position on the Canyon “looks” better to me. I recognize that it doesn’t mean it is better for her but even still there isn’t a very big difference in pad reach between the smallest size BMC Speedmachine with the flat cockpit and size S in the Speedmax. If reach was the problem you’re telling me they couldn’t make that work with the semi custom full length supports/extensions on the Canyon? And to imply that might have caused a knee injury? This all sounds very odd to me.
Interesting that he keeps arguing about geometry problems but has yet to issue a single factual argument with numbers (i.e. lowest reach of the Canyon XS is XX, whereas the BMC is XX, so she is going to get a Cervelo and get XX). I agree with you, her bike position on the BMC looks very similar to the Canyon. If the reach of the S was too long, why not work with an XS? . FYI, a friend of mine is about 5’ 0", she rides an XS and she loves her fit.
So I go back to my statement after correcting myself about her lack of wins, I really want to see her new bike position.
So I go back to my statement after correcting myself about her lack of wins, I really want to see her new bike position.
Don’t expect to see it this weekend.
So I go back to my statement after correcting myself about her lack of wins, I really want to see her new bike position.Don’t expect to see it this weekend.Depending what you mean by ‘it’, Sodaro will be riding a bike on Saturday, and not a Canyon.
See race day thread for a little more.
So I go back to my statement after correcting myself about her lack of wins, I really want to see her new bike position.Don’t expect to see it this weekend.Depending what you mean by ‘it’, Sodaro will be riding a bike on Saturday, and not a Canyon.
See race day thread for a little more.
‘It’ being her position
And yes, she will be riding a bike. A black one
And Lange just put a super gushy post on IG about how great they are.
Where there’s smoke, there’s fire. Something is definitely off.
I think it’s the terse statement on instagram that raises more questions than answers and suggest some kind of falling out. Seems like that could have been avoided with a little more finessing - “this was the bike that propelled me to the course record at IM NZ, provided several beautiful bespoke paint jobs†etc etc etc
yeah, this is it for me. she doesn’t know me, or owe me anything, but the reason there’s 3 pages of speculation here is that she didn’t get out in front of it with a statement.
might not have been what she felt like doing, but when you’re a pro it’s your job.