Of all the people who s
hould probably be hiding under a rock right now, this guy has the nerve to claim Rarely has a U.S. president been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many. Is he including the bush admin in that rare statement.
And it isn’t just him, Bremer, Wolfawitz, kristol and the other architects of this disaster are rising from the dead to.
https://tv.yahoo.com/news/megyn-kelly-calls-dick-cheney-failing-iraq-intense-132500453.html
Heads he wins tails you lose. If Iraq was stable now he’d be claiming its thanks to him, since it isn’t it’s obamas fault.
Didn’t you know? Everything was on the course for full blown success when Bush left office!
Of all the people who s
hould probably be hiding under a rock right now, this guy has the nerve to claim Rarely has a U.S. president been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many. Is he including the bush admin in that rare statement.
And it isn’t just him, Bremer, Wolfawitz, kristol and the other architects of this disaster are rising from the dead to.
https://tv.yahoo.com/...tense-132500453.html
Please cite with specificity Obama’s accomplishments. Feel free to split it into domestic and foreign policy achievements if necessary.
Dude… at least debate what the thread is actually about before going down that road.
You are asking me to defend Obama? What rock have you lived under.
Iraq was destined to fail from the start and an amateur like Obama surely wasn’t the man to ensure any victory. But Buchanan was right in his book Where the Right Went Wrong that the best we could hope for was a civil war that splits the country in three ethnic provinces. Yes before Biden. We should have never been there and committing us to open ended military action and what resembles occupation for god knows what is a losing strategy we are now realizing it big time.
Use search and type dean popps in. You will find a description of a neocon event that will give you some insight into why we were really there.
I am directly addressing it, but I will rephrase it. Please cite to an administration that was more wrong about more things than the current one or in the alternative please compare and contrast the current and immediate prior presidencies and demonstrate which one was more wrong about more things with specificity.
So this administration sucks, and somehow that makes it ok for the giant clusterfuck the last administration left? Jeez, no wonder your country is circling the toilet bowl. I’m no fan of Obama, but please…
Again, try addressing the OP.
Regardless of the past mistakes with regard to Iraq (and there were many including most likely the decision to invade) the policy of this administration was horrible. Assume they were handed a pile of crap for arguments sake, what they did with it was probably the worst possible management of the situation. If you’re going to throw Cheney under the bus with his comments (which while perhaps hyperbolic are not too far off) you need to be able to rebut them, which is the point I was trying to make.
Regardless of the past mistakes with regard to Iraq (and there were many…
Agreed.
…including most likely the decision to invade)
Most likely?
…the policy of this administration was horrible.
Agreed.
Assume they were handed a pile of crap for arguments sake,
There’s an understatement.
what they did with it was probably the worst possible management of the situation. If you’re going to throw Cheney under the bus with his comments (which while perhaps hyperbolic are not too far off) you need to be able to rebut them, which is the point I was trying to make.
Ok General, what should they have done? What was the perfect end game? At what point is it not worth it to be there? How much money, how many lives have to be spent? If Obama, or even for fun and games lets pretend any Republican president, doubled down, spent more money, and committed more forces, and lost more lives in Iraq, and lets face it, probably ended up no better off there then we are now, would you be singing their praises? Iraq is a disaster from which their is no winning strategy. Obama has screwed up a hell of a lot, but from this one there was no escaping.
As Jay Carney said, which president was he talking about again.
Even if Obama is one of the two worst presidents that ever was or ever will be, Cheney is one of a very few that should shut up and apologize for ever speaking.
"Please cite to an administration that was more wrong about more things than the current one "
Uh, how about Dubya. History will judge his march into Iraq as the biggest bonehead move ever. Iraq is going to be getting a lot worse and it can all trace its origins to GWB. He pushed the snowball down the hill.
I agree with several things he said in the interview. He did say that noone may have been able to get a reasonable SOFA, but pointed out the un-serious Obama level of continued presence that Obama wanted Maliki to agree to. Of course I also agree with several things of what Obama has said in the last few days: Maliki(or whoever) has to show that govt will be representative for all the groups, we require immunity for troops an Maliki refused to extend it, etc. It's not black and white here. Obama was passed an Iraq that was in a more peaceful, dare I say hopeful, one than exists today. Whether you think Obama did enough to keep the gains we paid so much for is up to you. I don't, and have said so for years.
As to Cheney’s comments about a POTUS that has gotten so much wrong so often, I think that is another easy argument for hi to win. On the FP front Iraq will probably be seen as a major GWB blunder, but there were many good relationships that GWB strengthened or maintained with other world leaders. Obama is universally seen as untrustworthy by our allies, and weak and feckless by our enemies. It’s good news that Obama has not involved us in any new wars, but he presided over a surge in Afg (while at the same time announcing a pullout) resulting many more American deaths there, and he has been unresposive, or meddled just enough to help create more chaos in several other mideast countries, resulting in many tens, possibly hundreds, of thousands of deaths in some places that could probably have been prevented, and as a bonus we will probably have many more places for the most anti-American of forces to build and plan from. So the scale of fail from Obama is nowhere near evident.
It seems like you could just listen to what Cheney says and take whatever you might and leave the rest as thinking of a hawk (like McCain!) or revisionist or whatever makes you feel good. I think that insisting that these people should not talk puts you in the camp with the lefties who believe in free speech…for those you approve. Not a good place to be.
“there were many good relationships that GWB strengthened or maintained with other world leaders”
Other than Tony Blair who did you have in mind?
.
“there were many good relationships that GWB strengthened or maintained with other world leaders”
Other than Tony Blair who did you have in mind?
Well he did kiss the King, so I guess they must have had a relationship.
Gaddafi ?
Regardless of the past mistakes with regard to Iraq (and there were many including most likely the decision to invade) the policy of this administration was horrible. Assume they were handed a pile of crap for arguments sake, what they did with it was probably the worst possible management of the situation. If you’re going to throw Cheney under the bus with his comments (which while perhaps hyperbolic are not too far off) you need to be able to rebut them, which is the point I was trying to make.
You are asking me to defend Obama. I cannot. I can’t think of a single positive thing about him or his administration. I thought bush was the worst and we couldn’t get any worse than this amateur convinced a lot of foolish people to vote for him. He then proceeded to blame the prior administration for his inability to fix thing he promised to and willingly pursued the chance to fix. He is everything that could possibly be embodied in a poor leader. An amateur, a demagogue, a radical socialist, an obvious narcissist.
But that doesn’t change the fact that neocons like Dick Cheney got us into this mess with with none of their original claims materializing. You can’t take a nation into war on false hopes at best and lies at worse and expect public support forever. Yes Obama made the call and the responsibility of any failure or losses falls on him as the current leader, but we should have never been there to begin with.
It has been one justification after another. WMDs! Wrong. Saddam Hussein was a bad guy and bad for the the region! Wrong, his defeat created a power vaccines that was filled by radical terrorist. We would be greeted as liberators! Well we see how that worked out. Like I said type in dean popps in the search function. I’m not going to say the war was a conspiracy. But 9/11 was certainly exploited by a lot of people who had plans on empire and creating a new era of Pax Americana. And they are all coming out of the woodwork now.
It has been one justification after another. WMDs! Wrong. Saddam Hussein was a bad guy and bad for the the region! Wrong, his defeat created a power vaccines that was filled by radical terrorist.
I would be interested in hearing whether you felt that way if you dragged your ass over there and actually saw, first hand, Saddam’s handiwork.
Wow there partner. I’m not saying he doesn’t have a right to. I’m saying of all the people he has some nerve. Notice all the people that orchestrated this are coming out of the woodwork, yet bush who ordered it has gracefully remained silent. That is the point I’m making.
You keep pulling that one. First with cops now with this. My best friend did two tours in Iraq. We have different views on this one. But emotion or how people feel About something should not be the primer for war. I don’t care if Saddam hussein and his offspring raped and tortured every citizen of that country. The fact they didn’t rise up against him on their own showed they were not ready to be free of him. It isn’t our Place to push freedom on people, it must be attained organically. It just be earned to be appreciated.